The White Knight Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 Frankly your abuse is now becoming very tiring. WK has quite clearly explained his position, if you are too ignorant to take that on board and keep reverting back to an post that he has admitted he could have worded better it is YOU who has the problem. It is people like YOU that stagnate discussion of such issues and in the long term it is people like YOU that increase racism and any problems it brings tenfold. WK has stated many times he has no problem with folk coming to the UK who offer skills. It's a very simple belief and it is most certainly not racist. Thank you BW. You sum my position up very well. and posts like this help it move on ???,,, Do some of yours????.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 WK has stated many times he has no problem with folk coming to the UK who offer skills. Yes, but he still made a sweeping statement about Bulgarians and Romanians being 'beggars, pickpockets, buskers and benefit collectors', and it's hardly the first time he's expressed such views. I'm not getting into a discussion about what the intentions behind it were, but it was largely irrelevant to the discussion about which speedway riders should get work permits because there are no Bulgarians and Romanians riding the British leagues, and never have been as far as I'm aware. It was just another unnecessary dig at a particular group of people, so he can hardly complain about being taken to task over it. It's nothing to do with being PC - people are just as entitled to express opposition to such remarks as those who think they should have the right to make them. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruffdiamond Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 Yes it does, and BWitcher's comments are spot on and timely. Thank you BW. You sum my position up very well. Do some of yours????.... a see :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 I really thought this had all been put to bed......but there always those at the back of the queue who very slow on the uptake. It's now been agreed that racism isn't an opinion....it's bigotry. As you commented THW has already acknowledged that his words were, at least, injudicious....many thought them downright racist. Now if you are too slow / blind / ignorant (delete as applicable} to understand that, then you have my sympathy....and may I suggest that you take a little water with it!!!! I do hope this explains my position in terms that even you may understand.......although I'll no be putting any money on it!!!! Your post would have credence if you hadn't continued your tirade AFTER WK had explained his position and consistently reverted back to an original post. So essentially once WK had explained, which he did immediately, you didn't have a position. So no, I'm not too slow/blind/ignorant. I read his original post, felt it was all encompassing and therefore worded wrong (even though I knew what he meant). I then read WK clarify what he meant.. Had I been slow/ignorant/blind I would have ignored his clarification and continued the racist accusations. YOU did that. Yes, but he still made a sweeping statement about Bulgarians and Romanians being 'beggars, pickpockets, buskers and benefit collectors', and it's hardly the first time he's expressed such views. I'm not getting into a discussion about what the intentions behind it were, but it was largely irrelevant to the discussion about which speedway riders should get work permits because there are no Bulgarians and Romanians riding the British leagues, and never have been as far as I'm aware. It was just another unnecessary dig at a particular group of people, so he can hardly complain about being taken to task over it. It's nothing to do with being PC - people are just as entitled to express opposition to such remarks as those who think they should have the right to make them. Correct he did and was quite rightly called up on it. However, when someone then clarifies what they mean and gives rationale behind it and ADMITS they made a sweeping statement then any rationale adult would accept that and move on. Continuing to harp back to it is the actions of a child. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruffdiamond Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 Que Sera, Sera ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 (edited) Yes, but he still made a sweeping statement about Bulgarians and Romanians being 'beggars, pickpockets, buskers and benefit collectors', and it's hardly the first time he's expressed such views. I'm not getting into a discussion about what the intentions behind it were, but it was largely irrelevant to the discussion about which speedway riders should get work permits because there are no Bulgarians and Romanians riding the British leagues, and never have been as far as I'm aware. It was just another unnecessary dig at a particular group of people, so he can hardly complain about being taken to task over it. It's nothing to do with being PC - people are just as entitled to express opposition to such remarks as those who think they should have the right to make them. I hope I haven't complained too much regarding my Post - I try to allow other folk their viewpoint too Humphrey. You will not get any complaints from me about any of the Posts objecting to my position. The Forum is for Debate and part of that is accepting that other people will have a differing view to myself. I accept that, and the counter arguments that go with it. I hate being called a LIAR though - because that is something I am not. If I was - I would not be so open and honest with my views. I am still waiting for an apology from orion for that - and that only. Edited February 11, 2015 by The White Knight 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foamfence Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 Yes, but he still made a sweeping statement about Bulgarians and Romanians being 'beggars, pickpockets, buskers and benefit collectors', and it's hardly the first time he's expressed such views. I'm not getting into a discussion about what the intentions behind it were, but it was largely irrelevant to the discussion about which speedway riders should get work permits because there are no Bulgarians and Romanians riding the British leagues, and never have been as far as I'm aware. It was just another unnecessary dig at a particular group of people, so he can hardly complain about being taken to task over it. It's nothing to do with being PC - people are just as entitled to express opposition to such remarks as those who think they should have the right to make them. We are a long way beyond expressing opposition, that was done very quickly. The long and repeated expressions of opposition are however another thing, I don't want to see them and frankly I find them off-putting. Obviously we can stray off topic at times and I'm guilty of that myself (usually with light hearted quips) but I don't drag it on for a number of days and neither do I rope in some who seem bent on encouraging conflict. Besides all that, isn't there a thread for none Speedway discussions? This is meant to be about a Speedway related matter and the said remark and it's response should have been left at that. And NO I wont be discussing it further! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 This is meant to be about a Speedway related matter and the said remark and it's response should have been left at that. Again though, Bulgarians and Romanians are irrelevant to a discussion about speedway work permits, but others wanted to drag their biases into a conversation about the relevant merits of Commonwealth and EU riders being allowed to ride in the British leagues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 Again though, Bulgarians and Romanians are irrelevant to a discussion about speedway work permits, but others wanted to drag their biases into a conversation about the relevant merits of Commonwealth and EU riders being allowed to ride in the British leagues. And you are doing precisely the same thing on the other side. The Romanian/Bulgarian (and some other eastern European countries) situation IS a problem. No, they are not all beggars, criminals etc, but there are many that are. It is just as wrong to turn a blind eye to that. How to solve the problem, given the rules of movement between EU countries is an entirely different matter altogether as there are many Eastern Europeans (and Western) who bring benefits to the country as well as you rightly point out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 And you are doing precisely the same thing on the other side. The Romanian/Bulgarian (and some other eastern European countries) situation IS a problem. No, they are not all beggars, criminals etc, but there are many that are. It is just as wrong to turn a blind eye to that. How to solve the problem, given the rules of movement between EU countries is an entirely different matter altogether as there are many Eastern Europeans (and Western) who bring benefits to the country as well as you rightly point out. I was in Bulgaria in November, and the impression I got from looking at the residents was the TWK's comments in many cases were not far from the truth. That's not racist, but very factual of what i saw. Some on here of course will insist that I am racist. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruffdiamond Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 but would 'WKD' go there on holiday ??? :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 but would 'WKD' go there on holiday ??? :-) No one would want to go on holiday to Bulgaria, and I hear Romania could be worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weatherwatcher Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 Right. As I said yesterday and I hate to repeat myself. Can we get this thread back on track. It has now gone into a slanging match. Has anyone got any news on what is happening to the clubs getting their sponsorship back or how the riders are going on getting visa's for this coming season as it is now getting very close to starting. So please can we put the other matter to bed once and for all. Will check tomorrow and if it is just the same I will not post on this thread until it comes back onto the topic in hand. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 Right. As I said yesterday and I hate to repeat myself. Can we get this thread back on track. It has now gone into a slanging match. Has anyone got any news on what is happening to the clubs getting their sponsorship back or how the riders are going on getting visa's for this coming season as it is now getting very close to starting. So please can we put the other matter to bed once and for all. Will check tomorrow and if it is just the same I will not post on this thread until it comes back onto the topic in hand. Not you as well. :shock: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruffdiamond Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 (edited) No one would want to go on holiday to Bulgaria, and I hear Romania could be worse. were you not there on holiday Dave ???,,, I know people that have been there, cos they said it was cheap and beer was only, like 30p or summit,,, and the comments you made, could be said about lot's of places, including parts of 'Britain' :-( Edited February 11, 2015 by ruffdiamond Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 were you not there on holiday Dave ???,,, I know people that have been there, cos they said it was cheap and beer was only, like 30p or summit,,, and the comments you made, could be said about lot's of places, including parts of 'Britain' :-( Let's face the facts.....if someone from Newcastle say's a place is bad,then it must be baaaaad 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 (edited) No one would want to go on holiday to Bulgaria, and I hear Romania could be worse. Actually, I remember seeing a programme on television a while back about the large number of British people who had emigrated to Bulgaria to take advantage of the lower cost of living there. There are so many British people now living there there that there is a TV show called "The English Neighbour", which stars Leslie Grantham who has, himself, moved to that country. I wonder if the Bulgarians think we're a bunch of thieves and pickpockets because we live the easy life off their economy. Edited February 11, 2015 by grachan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruffdiamond Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 Let's face the facts.....if someone from Newcastle say's a place is bad,then it must be baaaaad it's not a fact,,, it's his opinion, in which he is entitled to, so you should'nt tar everyone with the same brush, it would be quicker and more efficient to do it with a roller, but it would probably be against 'Health & Safety' regulation's anyway, especially in 'Britain', ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 Actually, I remember seeing a programme on television a while back about the large number of British people who had emigrated to Bulgaria to take advantage of the lower cost of living there. There are so many British people now living there there that there is a TV show called "The English Neighbour", which stars Leslie Grantham who has, himself, moved to that country. I wonder if the Bulgarians think we're a bunch of thieves and pickpockets because we live the easy life off their economy. well Leslie Grantham's a murderer for starters! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 No of course.The reality is most tourists don't really see the reality of a country,they see the touristy areas,not the mundane norm,so it is very hard to make a judgment on a country from a few days visiting tourist spots Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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