XTC38L Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 I am pleased if it stops the amount of second rate aussies and americans riding here. #Backthebritishkidsthats all well and good but what british kids are you going to replace them with. Until the NL is used as a breeding ground for young riders nothing will change. The NL should be for developing new riders not a career path for riders that couldnt make it a PL level. No one over 25 should be riding in NL unless they are new to the sport and no rider should be able to continue to ride NL for more than 5 years. Back the kids and give them a chance and it wont be long before there is plenty of young brits capable of holding their own at PL level. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 thats all well and good but what british kids are you going to replace them with. Until the NL is used as a breeding ground for young riders nothing will change. The NL should be for developing new riders not a career path for riders that couldnt make it a PL level. No one over 25 should be riding in NL unless they are new to the sport and no rider should be able to continue to ride NL for more than 5 years. Back the kids and give them a chance and it wont be long before there is plenty of young brits capable of holding their own at PL level.theres a league full of them! Kick out the Aussies and then the 6 point men left become 7 pointers, the 5 pointers become 6 pointers etc. the 3 pointers will be replaced by NL riders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XTC38L Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 theres a league full of them! Kick out the Aussies and then the 6 point men left become 7 pointers, the 5 pointers become 6 pointers etc. the 3 pointers will be replaced by NL riders.the only thing its full of is journey men NL riders that couldnt make it. I totally agree that there are quite a few foreign riders that shouldnt be there but kicking them all out is ridiculous. I think the current ruling of a 7pt ass ave is a good thing as the standard of rider will be much better and if they cant make the 7pt ave in 3 years there finished and thats the way it should be. The likes of penfold, o'malley, horwood etc should never been given visas as they never were good enough at home and clubs were taking ridiculous risks with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Najjer Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 I'm intrigued after the "workshop" how many Australians will now end up getting their work permits turned down - by my workings out after reading the criteria again there could and should be a few missing out! Interesting to see what happens in the coming weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 I'm intrigued after the "workshop" how many Australians will now end up getting their work permits turned down - by my workings out after reading the criteria again there could and should be a few missing out! Interesting to see what happens in the coming weeks. Name and shame? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Najjer Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 (edited) Name and shame? Where would be the fun in that ;-) I can think of 6, potentially 7, that don't meet the current requirement we are all aware of - unless these have now changed after the "workshop". Edited January 31, 2015 by Najjer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 Name and shame? I think the analysis is already done early in either this thread or the aussie visa one. About 7 riders miss the criteria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 I think the analysis is already done early in either this thread or the aussie visa one. About 7 riders miss the criteria But if they have already got visas, surely the same criteria will admit them again. It's the Sponsorship licences that are being reviewed, prior to the reapplication for replacement visas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 What a pathetic article in the Spar today - Bit shocked you do your shopping there in the first place . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Najjer Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 But if they have already got visas, surely the same criteria will admit them again. It's the Sponsorship licences that are being reviewed, prior to the reapplication for replacement visas. As they now have to re apply for them, the BSPA (and also the clubs in the first place for that matter!) shouldn't be endorsing any applicants that don't fit the criteria like they have done previously, that was the whole problem. If they do, we've just done the full circle and no one has learnt any lessons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 As they now have to re apply for them, the BSPA (and also the clubs in the first place for that matter!) shouldn't be endorsing any applicants that don't fit the criteria like they have done previously, that was the whole problem. If they do, we've just done the full circle and no one has learnt any lessons. But I thought that the applications had been granted by the UKIV dept, because they had met the full criteria. If they did, that would make them just as negligent as the offending promoters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Najjer Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 But I thought that the applications had been granted by the UKIV dept, because they had met the full criteria. If they did, that would make them just as negligent as the offending promoters. I was led to believe they grant the work permits on the say so of the relevant authority (in this case the BSPA) saying they do meet the required criteria - I can name at least 6 that don't meet that criteria. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 I was led to believe they grant the work permits on the say so of the relevant authority (in this case the BSPA) saying they do meet the required criteria - I can name at least 6 that don't meet that criteria. Must admit that one set of criteria that was posted on here, was very severe, and only the real top notch established riders would qualify. It didn't seem to cater for 'promising riders who might make it'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Najjer Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 Must admit that one set of criteria that was posted on here, was very severe, and only the real top notch established riders would qualify. It didn't seem to cater for 'promising riders who might make it'. Top 4 in a State Championship I don't think is an unrealistic target to set people before they come over here. Then the expectation to maintain their 7.00 average once again isn't unrealistic - that's where the existing Aussie(s) and Anerican are going to fall short, or should I say, they should fall short. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 Top 4 in a State Championship I don't think is an unrealistic target to set people before they come over here. Then the expectation to maintain their 7.00 average once again isn't unrealistic - that's where the existing Aussie(s) and Anerican are going to fall short, or should I say, they should fall short. But very rarely achieved. It will stop a lot of riders even applying in future, unlike past years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Najjer Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 (edited) But very rarely achieved. It will stop a lot of riders even applying in future, unlike past years.Then goods riddance quite frankly - how often do we hear "his average will drop so isn't worth a shot" with regards a Brit or European rider, so the Aussies or Americans should be no different. If they aren't good enough then thanks for coming but good bye. The only one who is getting a rough end of the stick is Alex Davies who doesn't meet the requirements that are set - but achieved over a 7 average in his last season here in 2013 but rules are rules. Edited January 31, 2015 by Najjer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontforgetthefueltapsbruv Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 Top 4 in a State Championship I don't think is an unrealistic target to set people before they come over here. Then the expectation to maintain their 7.00 average once again isn't unrealistic - that's where the existing Aussie(s) and Anerican are going to fall short, or should I say, they should fall short. Manzares is the only American requiring a visa. He met the criteria as national U21 champion and has only had one season. Doesnt the criterua state to achieve the average in 2 years? So even if you apply the 7 (rather than the 5 he arrived on) needing to be achieved he has 2015 to do so. As it stands it doesnt state any rider has to retain the assessed average in the 2nd season if not achieved in the first so he would return on his 6.Now this may change going forward(and probably should IMO) but we wont know until full details of the reissue of sponsors licences is confirmed along with any new requirements which need to be adhered to to avoid the problem again. Now ironically of course if he has to come on a 7 Ipswich may choose to keep him and it may mean a Brit loses a place lower down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greyhoundp Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 Promoters should still be able to apply for a visa for a promising None European, but they should be given a 7 point average for Team building purposes, even if there actual average is only (as an example) 6.02 so let the Promoter put his neck on the block to sign another Brady Kurtz. What it really means is the promoters will put there necks on the block but ONLY for THE very TOP prospects, and thats as it should be, and follows the Visa guidelines, which are NOT meant for journeymen average riders. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Najjer Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 Manzares is the only American requiring a visa. He met the criteria as national U21 champion and has only had one season. Doesnt the criterua state to achieve the average in 2 years? So even if you apply the 7 (rather than the 5 he arrived on) needing to be achieved he has 2015 to do so. As it stands it doesnt state any rider has to retain the assessed average in the 2nd season if not achieved in the first so he would return on his 6. Now this may change going forward(and probably should IMO) but we wont know until full details of the reissue of sponsors licences is confirmed along with any new requirements which need to be adhered to to avoid the problem again. Now ironically of course if he has to come on a 7 Ipswich may choose to keep him and it may mean a Brit loses a place lower down. Hasn't Batchelor been quoted as saying he had a two year visa which has effectively been ripped up and he has to start all over again and apply from scratch. Manzares did not achieve the 7.00 required average. Also, it says "in the previous season" - not over 2 years, when referring to achieving the required average. Currently Manzares does not meet the criteria on the BSPA website. Going back to my earlier point about Alex Davies potentially being hard done by - you can add Kozza Smith to that list too. Neither have finished in the top 4 in a state championship in the previous year or achieved a 7.00+ average in 2014 - even though they have done previously. Promoters should still be able to apply for a visa for a promising None European, but they should be given a 7 point average for Team building purposes, even if there actual average is only (as an example) 6.02 so let the Promoter put his neck on the block to sign another Brady Kurtz. What it really means is the promoters will put there necks on the block but ONLY for THE very TOP prospects, and thats as it should be, and follows the Visa guidelines, which are NOT meant for journeymen average riders. If they are that good and that serious about riding over here, they will have met the requirements that are being expected of them. There is no two ways about it. That is the expectation here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan_Jones Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 Must admit that one set of criteria that was posted on here, was very severe, and only the real top notch established riders would qualify. It didn't seem to cater for 'promising riders who might make it'. That's the idea. "Work permits will be issued to riders of the highest calibre who are able to make a significant contribution to the development of British Speedway in the Elite and Premier Leagues" was always the preamble to the requirements, in other words, "come back to us when you have made it". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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