BWitcher Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 Name a higher level league for speedway in the UK. If you can, your point is valid. If you can't, the Elite League is appropriately named. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 If you can't, the Elite League is appropriately named. What about the Premier League? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barncooseboy Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 Back along Trelawny beat Wolverhampton, Skornicki was all at sea around the Cornish tiddler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acef Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 (edited) I think what is now incredibly clear, that the BSPA can no longer be trusted as an organisation. Unfortunately that throws a blanket over the entire sport, because they are responsible for it. Such negligence, as has been highlighted, is inexcusable. There are so many people involved in it, it has its own type of bureaucracy, that invents its own rules. It has essentially been a semi-professional sport for a long time now, attempting to be professional. For the record I'm behind this 100%. In principle I agree with the criteria set by UKV&I and find it astounding that such a body as the BSPA can fail, so spectacularly, to adhere to the rules set. It is truly incredible. For a long time there has needed to be an independent body governing this sport. Whilst its run by the promoters for the promoters we will continue to be dragged through the dark ages. If ever you needed proof that this sport is being run this way to satisfy certain circles and individuals, then this is it. Jobs for the boys. From the bottom, the entire product needs looking into. I'm fully behind the young brits being given a better speedway education. That starts in the NL, through to a reserve spot in the PL, and then to the EL. If your good enough, of course. The PL needs to take some responsibility for that instead of filing the league with journeymen foreigners. I'm hoping they go hard with this, and make an example of the BSPA. The problem there is keeping the integrity of the sport intact, and just the sport as a general principle, operating. Its so fragile, so poorly run, it will take essentially nothing to bury it into the ground. I think the biggest irony of all, is that a bit of basic common sense could have seen this sport working like it should, because the very criteria given to achieve the visa in the first place would have stopped 90% of the problems. The answer was staring at them all along. Edited January 24, 2015 by acef 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halifaxtiger Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 But it's the men in charge at individual clubs that have made mistakes with paperwork, along with unlawful guest, loan and doubling-up rules, which is the BSPA, as I understood it. I can see your points here but I think in this situation there is a difference between the BSPA and the clubs. True, all clubs belong to the BSPA but not all of them have been found to be flouting the specific rules laid down by the UK V&I and, indeed, some that have been flouted are trivial. Blaming the BSPA as a whole is a bit like blaming Parliament for the expenses scandal, when in fact it was only certain MP's. Further to that, other sports have also been cited so I think it is a matter between employer and migrant. I don't see it that way; the individual clubs are the employer this is their problem. The BSPA is no more than a trade association which happens to provide a structure within which the membership chooses to trade; the membership do not have to do what the BSPA say; there may be consequences if they don't, but there is no collective responsibility each individual promotion does what the devil it likes! That's how I see it too. People bleating on about not enough brits to fill the gaps, If the national league was set up and left to actually develop young talent, rather than use young lads as speedway slags to keep the EL alive and save money or let teams like Cradley last year take the mick. Cradley's team was packed full of young British riders. They just happened to be able to attract the best of them. Don't blame the EL. The PL are the ones to blame for lack of progression of kids from the NL. Dead right. Even this seasons teams have a number of second hand foreigners who have been over here for years but done nothing. And when they do choose a British youngster it is sometimes the case that if he struggles for a few weeks he is booted out with all speed while foreigners doing the same are retained. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 But crucially I have never, ever said that they would. The Elite League Teams, by and large, have better Riders so I would expect them to beat a Premier League Team. If you had but the sense to realise it, my problem is with the Name itself. The Elite League is very FAR from Elite - just under one third of the Riders in each Team are National League Riders orion, BW. That means that at least TWO Riders are THIRD Class. They may improve, some have but most are not of such a standard as to be called Elite? League Rider. Before you say it, the Premier League is badly name too - it is never Premier. Why the hell can't Speedway get back to the British League Division One, Division Two and Division Three - for THAT is what they are. Anything else is pretentious nonsense. Witcher said the standard was better and it is so what he said is not silly as I said EL would beat a Pl side every time . The name tells you it's the top division in the uk just like Ice Hockey it has nothing to with the standard of player or rider. the premier league in football is the top division but you don't have Ronaldo and Messi ect in it . All leagues in all sports all around the World have names to define they are the top league like Elite ,Premier ,Super etc it's not hard to work out . The Elite is still the best standard in the uk so intill otherwise it names makes perfect sense . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruffdiamond Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 But crucially I have never, ever said that they would. The Elite League Teams, by and large, have better Riders so I would expect them to beat a Premier League Team. If you had but the sense to realise it, my problem is with the Name itself. The Elite League is very FAR from Elite - just under one third of the Riders in each Team are National League Riders orion, BW. That means that at least TWO Riders are THIRD Class. They may improve, some have but most are not of such a standard as to be called Elite? League Rider. Before you say it, the Premier League is badly name too - it is never Premier. Why the hell can't Speedway get back to the British League Division One, Division Two and Division Three - for THAT is what they are. Anything else is pretentious nonsense. time's change and thing's move on,,, plus, Grandstand is'nt even on anymore :-( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 Which NL rider is going to replace Craig Cook, the No 1 rider in the PL? I can see the point you're trying to make, however it's flawed.. As Cook/Lawson wouldn't be replaced by a NL rider, simply a new Dane/Swede etc would be brought in. It's the bottom end of PL teams that needs to be sorted out. I'm happy to say i agree with you - maybe some kind of agreement about GB make up of PL teams and a restriction on non GB riders to max of 1 or 2 maybe I do not believe that would be illegal - it exists in Champions League football (another misnomer!) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INCOGNITO Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 Now this may be wrong but something that someone has indicated to me that could be a problem with the new visas. When riders get a visa to ride and live here they do so by having a sponsor (employer) that says they are backing their application. However as these riders also ride abroad this is done without any control by the sponsor and therefore could be a problem as that is not part of their deal with a visa. So any rider that has ridden here and in other leagues abroad could be the ones that will struggle to get new visas. Don't know if this is the case as it came from a conversation with someone more connected to that style of work and not speedway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted January 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 Now this may be wrong but something that someone has indicated to me that could be a problem with the new visas. When riders get a visa to ride and live here they do so by having a sponsor (employer) that says they are backing their application. However as these riders also ride abroad this is done without any control by the sponsor and therefore could be a problem as that is not part of their deal with a visa. So any rider that has ridden here and in other leagues abroad could be the ones that will struggle to get new visas. Don't know if this is the case as it came from a conversation with someone more connected to that style of work and not speedway They don't need a sponsor to ride abroad - and it has no bearing on a UK visa - however what DOES have a bearing is when a non-EU rider competes in more then one league in the UK - hence the issue of 'Aussies (non-EUs) doubling up, down or sideways'!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INCOGNITO Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 So a rider like Max Fricke for instance can ride for Belle Vue and Torun for example but not Belle Vue and Sheffield. Surely the best way is to stop them earning money in other countries and more here where they would be liable for tax and can be tracked easily rather than let loose across Europe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foamfence Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 So a rider like Max Fricke for instance can ride for Belle Vue and Torun for example but not Belle Vue and Sheffield. Surely the best way is to stop them earning money in other countries and more here where they would be liable for tax and can be tracked easily rather than let loose across Europe It's nothing to do with anyone here what Fricke does elsewhere, he might sell his body in Istanbul of a Sunday if he has a mind to, as long as he and his promoter here have reached agreement on what dates he will be available. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruffdiamond Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 It's nothing to do with anyone here what Fricke does elsewhere, he might sell his body in Istanbul of a Sunday if he has a mind to, as long as he and his promoter here have reached agreement on what dates he will be available. so that's the real reason Glasgow did'nt sign him,,, hmmm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foamfence Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 so that's the real reason Glasgow did'nt sign him,,, hmmm The real reason is that he isn't allowed to ride in two leagues here and being an ambitious bloke he opted for the higher level. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 why weaken the pl and reduce the earnings of british riders, when you could instead create positions by removing mediocre foreigners? i would weaken the pl for 2 reasons - 1) to make ends meet and 2) to make the step from NL more manageable i do not want to reduce earnings for British riders but DU/DD is a bit farcical and another cerdibility issue i squirm when televised matches are on and the commentator says "and also rides in PL for so and so". Casual watchers who we might reasonably be trying to attract would just laugh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagpuss Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 But crucially I have never, ever said that they would. The Elite League Teams, by and large, have better Riders so I would expect them to beat a Premier League Team. If you had but the sense to realise it, my problem is with the Name itself. The Elite League is very FAR from Elite - just under one third of the Riders in each Team are National League Riders orion, BW. That means that at least TWO Riders are THIRD Class. They may improve, some have but most are not of such a standard as to be called Elite? League Rider. Before you say it, the Premier League is badly name too - it is never Premier. Why the hell can't Speedway get back to the British League Division One, Division Two and Division Three - for THAT is what they are. Anything else is pretentious nonsense. I'd have a recount of the riders who will be riding in the EL & NL this year if I were you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 Name a higher level league for speedway in the UK. If you can, your point is valid. If you can't, the Elite League is appropriately named. You asked - and I have done on numerous occasions. BRITISH LEAGUE DIVISION ONE!!! It isn't rocket science and it describes the League perfectly whereas ELITE certainly does NOT!!! Obviously the Premier League (another misnomer) would become British League Division Two - which is exactly what it is. The National League would be British League Division Three (Development). Which is what it is supposed to be. orion - I know that the current Elite League has better Riders. I also doubt that any Premier League Team could beat an Elite League Team - there you are - I have said it in black and white. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruffdiamond Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 The real reason is that he isn't allowed to ride in two leagues here and being an ambitious bloke he opted for the higher level. What,,, even tho Glasgow is in Scotland, that does'nt seem very fair :-( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foamfence Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 What,,, even tho Glasgow is in Scotland, that does'nt seem very fair :-( What the bloody hell has Glasgow being in Scotland got to do with anything, it would be same if Somerset had wanted him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 You asked - and I have done on numerous occasions. BRITISH LEAGUE DIVISION ONE!!! It isn't rocket science and it describes the League perfectly whereas ELITE certainly does NOT!!! Obviously the Premier League (another misnomer) would become British League Division Two - which is exactly what it is. The National League would be British League Division Three (Development). Which is what it is supposed to be.at orion - I know that the current Elite League has better Riders. I also doubt that any Premier League Team could beat an Elite League Team - there you are - I have said it in black and white. you make a good point - its all hyperbole isn't it - they must think we're stupid - its div1, 2 and 3 and no amount of 'rebranding' can change that. Did the rebranding help with attendances? I wouldn't think so same with football - the Championship is Div 2. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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