salty Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 Is this government ruling no longer in force? I ask this because Jason Doyle is believed to be affected but he surely complies with the requirement to have finished in the top 4 in The Australian Championship having done so in the past 2. But without the sponsorship certificate, he can't be employed. That is the issue, but hopefully following the workshops they will be granted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnieg Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) Is this government ruling no longer in force? I ask this because Jason Doyle is believed to be affected but he surely complies with the requirement to have finished in the top 4 in The Australian Championship having done so in the past 2.Doyle is affected because his sponsor (Leicester speedway) has had their sponsorship certificate withdrawn (along with all other promoters). This is because of multiple breaches by numerous promoters of the existing regulations. I can see at least six categories of repeated breaches that have been committed (there may be others I have overlooked) 1 riders with one year contracts getting multi-year visas 2 riders guesting out with the terms of their visa 3 riders doubling up contrary to visa regulations 4 riders changing teams mid-season without applying for new visas 5 riders obtaining new visas despite not attaining their assessed average 6 riders getting 5 point assessments instead of 7 Is it any wonder the UKV & I are unhappy! This is clearly such a widespread systemic failure that the BSPA must take the lions share of the responsibility for allowing so many poor practices to exist - resulting in the position that our sport now finds itself in. [What if no date/venue/facilitator for the sponsors workshops can be found for six weeks? Add a couple of weeks to issue new sponsors' certificates and another couple before visas are approved and it could be April before Jason Doyle and co return!!] Edited January 23, 2015 by arnieg 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 it was an example of ' fast tracking' to save money not for their benefit, natural progression should be NL to PL imo.... Not jump up two steps to save me a few quid... How is the PL mainly to blame then?? Because without cheap lads at reserve, i doubt there would be an EL Because the system should be used in the PL, but they won't do it. More interested in useless Danes/Swedes etc. As it happens, it appears it benefitted quite a few of the better fast track riders last season. The Premier League is the biggest cause of the lack of progression for British riders. They don't want to play ball when it comes to development. They're more interested in rip off entrance prices and false advertising Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted January 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 Doyle is affected because his sponsor (Leicester speedway) has had their sponsorship certificate withdrawn (along with all other promoters). This is because of multiple breaches by numerous promoters of the existing regulations. I can see at least six categories of repeated breaches that have been committed (there may be others I have overlooked) 1 riders with one year contracts getting multi-year visas 2 riders guesting out with the terms of their visa 3 riders doubling up contrary to visa regulations 4 riders changing teams mid-season without applying for new visas 5 riders obtaining new visas despite not attaining their assessed average 6 riders getting 5 point assessments instead of 7 Is it any wonder the UKV & I are unhappy! This is clearly such a widespread systemic failure that the BSPA must take the lions share of the responsibility for allowing so many poor practices to exist - resulting in the position that our sport now finds itself in. [What if no date/venue/facilitator for the sponsors workshops can be found for six weeks? Add a couple of weeks to issue new sponsors' certificates and another couple before visas are approved and it could be April before Jason Doyle and co return!!] Good - maybe it'll warm up by then!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 What does this VISA issue mean in terms of the SGP's??? With Holder, Batchelor and Doyle possibly having no UK residency would that mean them excluded from the series or will they have to apply for European VISA's and live in Poland / Sweden etc?? If the latter, couldn't they then still compete in the British leagues without residency??? Surely as part of the EU that VISA would take president over a UK VISA would it not?? Just thinking about potential loopholes There would probably be a work permit specifically for riding in the GP at CArdiff, but would not cover other work (eg league speedway). EU visas (Schengen visas) don't cover the UK, because the UK opted out of that agreement. So they will still be able to ride in Sweden and Poland as that will be a different visa than the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 Anyone else think the clubs and bspa are getting off remarkably lightly if there have indeed been repeated breaches? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 An important fact I havent seen mentioned, ALL Visa/Sponsored riders Must be paid the average of their previous 12 weeks points money,each week, when and if they are injured or dropped by a team. This is to prevent them claiming benefits from the UK Tax payer. This has been the case since at least 2001 Some serious claims there then! Especially for anyone on a multi-year visa sacked early on It's concerning that the UKVI raise their concerns during the Christmas/ New Year period when many sports are not active, then throw down a mandatory workshop of the rules right during the time when clubs are re-meeting to plan ahead. surely the UKVI should have been doing checks and caught this and assisted the clubs back on track mid year. Then there is a chance clubs could 'clean up their act' as far as sponsorship of competitors is concerned. Someone who hasn't been doing their job has has a sudden 'wake up' and is using a big stick to right the ship in one hell of a hurry, with little concern for the timing! You have this the wrong way around! Be thankful the UKV&I have picked the off season to do it rather than choosing to do it in March-October thus meaning clubs being effected during the season. It's not UKV&Is job to make sure British Speedway runs smoothly - if the BSPA (and it's members) had done it job correctly, this would not have happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 Anyone else think the clubs and bspa are getting off remarkably lightly if there have indeed been repeated breaches? Yes. They are. I guess that being a sport governing body and pleading ignorance they are being given a chance to be educated and to do things properly. I guess this must have all come to light last year after the Jason Doyle visa issue. It became known then that, on the visa he was getting, he couldn't double up or guest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 Yes. They are. I guess that being a sport governing body and pleading ignorance they are being given a chance to be educated and to do things properly. I guess this must have all come to light last year after the Jason Doyle visa issue. It became known then that, on the visa he was getting, he couldn't double up or guest. This all came about when the UKV&Is called the BSPA to a meeting mid season, to show them a 2 year file of unlicenced riding in second halfs by young OZ riders contrary to their visitors visa. That's what opened it all up. Someone inUKV&I is very up to speedway practices, and complied a register of illegal rides, even when there was no payment and sometimes no crowd. It is still illegal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 This all came about when the UKV&Is called the BSPA to a meeting mid season, to show them a 2 year file of unlicenced riding in second halfs by young OZ riders contrary to their visitors visa. They were allowing that? Good grief!! No wonder they've been pulled up. And the riders themselves have some responsibility for that, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Local Boy Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 This is clearly such a widespread systemic failure that the BSPA must take the lions share of the responsibility for allowing so many poor practices to exist - resulting in the position that our sport now finds itself in. Why is it the BSPA's responsibility exactly? This problem belongs to the promotions that have clearly abused the system; it is not the Trade Associations responsibilities to monitor compliance it is the individual members responsibility. If I employ someone who requires a Visa in the City of London I can't go blaming the Financial Conduct Authority or Bank of England if I get it wrong. If a promotion want a foreign rider, who requires a Visa, to race for their team it is 100% their responsibility to follow the rules. Blaming the BSPA for this is like blaming the Iceberg for steering towards the Titanic! From what I am reading they've clearly had this coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 Why is it the BSPA's responsibility exactly? This problem belongs to the promotions that have clearly abused the system; it is not the Trade Associations responsibilities to monitor compliance it is the individual members responsibility. If I employ someone who requires a Visa in the City of London I can't go blaming the Financial Conduct Authority or Bank of England if I get it wrong. If a promotion want a foreign rider, who requires a Visa, to race for their team it is 100% their responsibility to follow the rules. Blaming the BSPA for this is like blaming the Iceberg for steering towards the Titanic! From what I am reading they've clearly had this coming. Are all teams not approved by the BSPA? The BSPA are the promoters, not some other body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A ORLOV Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 If any rider wants to double up/down the team send in that request in their team line up and the bspa authorise that option. It is up to the bspa to be aware that a non eu rider cannot ride for a second employer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 Why is it the BSPA's responsibility exactly? This problem belongs to the promotions that have clearly abused the system; it is not the Trade Associations responsibilities to monitor compliance it is the individual members responsibility. If I employ someone who requires a Visa in the City of London I can't go blaming the Financial Conduct Authority or Bank of England if I get it wrong. If a promotion want a foreign rider, who requires a Visa, to race for their team it is 100% their responsibility to follow the rules. Blaming the BSPA for this is like blaming the Iceberg for steering towards the Titanic! From what I am reading they've clearly had this coming. The promoters ARE the BSPA. If a promoter knows that it's illegal they should be bringing it up at a BSPA meeting so others are aware. It's the BSPA that vote in the rules that allow doubling up and guests - not individual promoters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Snackette Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 Is this government ruling no longer in force? I ask this because Jason Doyle is believed to be affected but he surely complies with the requirement to have finished in the top 4 in The Australian Championship having done so in the past 2. I think you miss the point. The GBE qualification criteria isn't a government generated ruling. It was what the criteria that the BSPA set for a non-EU to gain a visa to work in the UK. It should be remembered that without the BSPA endorsement to the sponsor's form, the visa will not be issued. Now in the past, it would appear that the various government agencies responsible for checking the applications, have done so purely administratively, ie to ensure there was a sponsors form endorsed by the governing body. They were content to rely that the BSPA were applying THEIR OWN CRITERIA to the applications. With the change of political climate these applications become subject to a rigour review. Surprise, surprise the review established that there was endemic and institutional failure in the compliance of these rules. As a result the UKV&I have said to British speedway, sorry chaps you can't be trusted so we are cancelling all sponsor's licenses until you are retrained and prove that you know how to apply YOUR OWN RULES!!!! Presumbaly after these workshops, this criteria will now be applied with greater rigour, which explains Harkness' comment "........of ensuring that all ELIGIBLE RIDERS are able to compete in 2015....." So in summary, British speedway have been caught out misbehaving, and it's now got to stand on the naughty step. If can show to the rest of the class that it can behave, it will be allowed to join in again!!! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Local Boy Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 Are all teams not approved by the BSPA? The BSPA are the promoters, not some other body. The BSPA are not the employer the individual member, is therefore it is the individual members responsibility to comply with the immigration rules. If an individual member states they have complied and subsequently it is found they haven't that really isn't the BSPA's issue. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robinsgirl Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 Some serious claims there then! Especially for anyone on a multi-year visa sacked early on You have this the wrong way around! Be thankful the UKV&I have picked the off season to do it rather than choosing to do it in March-October thus meaning clubs being effected during the season. It's not UKV&Is job to make sure British Speedway runs smoothly - if the BSPA (and it's members) had done it job correctly, this would not have happened. from home office spokesman on speeway gp site ..."The Home Office continually and routinely monitors all licensed sponsors to make sure that those applying to come to the UK for work are eligible and that a licensed sponsor genuinely wishes to take them on." How can the member sponsors comply if they haven't had the workshops/ training required? And yes, I can see that the BSPA would not have been big on ensuring they have followed the rule. I still think its a stupid time for the workshops, seems like after the horse has bolted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 From reading the output on this from various sources, it looks like one of the complaints raised by UKV&I is about situations whereby riders are loaned out by their parent club, where the parent club has acted as the sponsoring employer?? Also doubling up has been mentioned I think. Whatever......what effect could all this have on the transfer value of non-EU riders? Surely a downwards effect? I mention this within the context of a current high-profile transfer saga involving one such rider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnieg Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 Why is it the BSPA's responsibility exactly? This problem belongs to the promotions that have clearly abused the system; it is not the Trade Associations responsibilities to monitor compliance it is the individual members responsibility. If I employ someone who requires a Visa in the City of London I can't go blaming the Financial Conduct Authority or Bank of England if I get it wrong. If a promotion want a foreign rider, who requires a Visa, to race for their team it is 100% their responsibility to follow the rules. Blaming the BSPA for this is like blaming the Iceberg for steering towards the Titanic! From what I am reading they've clearly had this coming. What is the point of a trade association if it is not to look after its members interests? Your analogy with the FCA falls down because it is a regulatory body not a trade association. If my trade association [the ICAEW] was aware of widespread breaches of regulatory requirements and failed to provide advice and support to its members on the issues I would regard it as failing in its obligations to its members. And to my earlier list we can now add: 7. not guaranteeing payments to injured work permit riders 8. allowing riders to ride in second halves without work permits 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Local Boy Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 The promoters ARE the BSPA. If a promoter knows that it's illegal they should be bringing it up at a BSPA meeting so others are aware. It's the BSPA that vote in the rules that allow doubling up and guests - not individual promoters. The BSPA are not the employer; it is the promoter. If a promoter misleads the BSPA by telling them that a request for a Visa is in order that is down to the promotion not the BSPA. If it was anything other than that then the "site" visits would have started and finished in Rugby; instead it would appear that every promotion has had a knock on the door. You assume the Promoters care if it is illegal or not; clearly some don't; all they care about is numbers through the turnstiles and a winning team. I don't believe the major issue is doubling up or guests; its people who should not be working here in the first place! What is the point of a trade association if it is not to look after its members interests? Your analogy with the FCA falls down because it is a regulatory body not a trade association. If my trade association [the ICAEW] was aware of widespread breaches of regulatory requirements and failed to provide advice and support to its members on the issues I would regard it as failing in its obligations to its members. And to my earlier list we can now add: 7. not guaranteeing payments to injured work permit riders 8. allowing riders to ride in second halves without work permits In law this is not the BSPA's responsibility it is the individual promoter. If they don't like it they shouldn't have signed up for the gig! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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