New Speedway Engine

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

Caster oil is still used in speedway but not castrol so much , it's mainly rock, beeline or Morris and a few others , castor oils problem as I have found out recently since restoring old bikes is that if it sits for years without use it goes hard and ruins the parts of the engine

[Tsunami]

As TWK has said, it works/worked in speedway engines for decades, what has changed? I remember hearing years ago that Gary Havelock was using Mobil 1 synthetic and thought then.....here we go, the end of the intoxicating castor oil smell. I imagine and don't know for sure, the trend to use non-castor oil was based on sponsorship deals, but has now become a fashionable alternative. It is possible that 40w oil, as in Castrol R 40, is a bit thick these days for close bearing tolerances and with Nikasil bores. However, speedway engines get hot very quickly and the oil soon thins out and I know from the 'total loss' days, the oil was like water when it was discarded! It could also be thought, that with engines recirculating the oil, castor oil doesn't protect the engine as well as synthetic. If it is the recirculating issue, engine development has created an unintended consequence, to the detriment of the fans.....but then speedway probably feels..'bugger the fans'. In answer to running castor oil in my car?......BSA, I believe, recommended Castrol R for the Gold Star single cylinder engines.

Ray. Why would anyone, rider, promoter, tuner, want to think that.

[fredbogge]

Dean as you know speedway engines should at the end of riding for a season all engines should be compleatly stripped down & washed. I used clean parafin then all parts dried greased and stored for the winter. Do todays riders and mechanics not do this. If they wish to ride in the winter then they should at least strip down wash & check all parts before summer season Our engines were stripped washed examined and put away the week after our last match,

Edited January 27, 2015 by fredbogge

[Ray Stadia]

Ray. Why would anyone, rider, promoter, tuner, want to think that.

From the viewpoint Tsunami, that those involved in the sport would think, 'it is now thought that synthetic oil is best in a speedway engine', but it would appear, nobody involved in the sport has thought, 'but the fans like the smell of castor oil and that could be detrimental'. In other words, not thinking about the fans experience and what they get from the sport. By the way, I have done some research on castor versus synthetic and the jury appears to be well and truly out. One article stated that Castrol still felt Castrol R was best for methanol burning engines.

[Tsunami]

From the viewpoint Tsunami, that those involved in the sport would think, 'it is now thought that synthetic oil is best in a speedway engine', but it would appear, nobody involved in the sport has thought, 'but the fans like the smell of castor oil and that could be detrimental'. In other words, not thinking about the fans experience and what they get from the sport. By the way, I have done some research on castor versus synthetic and the jury appears to be well and truly out. One article stated that Castrol still felt Castrol R was best for methanol burning engines.

Sorry, but the decision would be a technical one between rider and tuner with NO input from promoters. Do you honestly think that a rider would use a lesser oil just to make a smell for the fans. It's not even a consideration, nor should it ever be.

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

Dean as you know speedway engines should at the end of riding for a season all engines should be compleatly stripped down & washed. I used clean parafin then all parts dried greased and stored for the winter. Do todays riders and mechanics not do this. If they wish to ride in the winter then they should at least strip down wash & check all parts before summer season Our engines were stripped washed examined and put away the week after our last match,

yes most do but I've recently brought a weslake from 1979 and a GM from 1992 and neither had been run since and inside they were solid because the castor oil had been left in and gone hard basically eating the parts

[Shale Searcher]

Has the lack of castor oil leaking on to the track also had a detrimental effect on how track surfaces bind together now as well??

[Ray Stadia]

Sorry, but the decision would be a technical one between rider and tuner with NO input from promoters. Do you honestly think that a rider would use a lesser oil just to make a smell for the fans. It's not even a consideration, nor should it ever be.

Well there is the rub Tsunami, the promoter is the 'ringmaster'. If he thinks the fans want the smell of castor oil, he should give the fans smell! He pays the riders, the fans pay the promoter, otherwise it is the old saying 'the tail wags the dog'.

Edited January 27, 2015 by Ray Stadia

[The White Knight]

Sorry, but the decision would be a technical one between rider and tuner with NO input from promoters. Do you honestly think that a rider would use a lesser oil just to make a smell for the fans. It's not even a consideration, nor should it ever be.

I would bow to your superior knowledge on this Tsunami.

 

However - I agree with Ray that the smell in years gone by was a big part of the Speedway experience. I was away from Speedway for a few years, when my late wife and myself returned to Brough Park, her eyes lit up and she said "we are back - mmm that smell".

 

It certainly didn't make the enjoyment but it contributed to it in a big way.

[Tsunami]

Are either of you TWK and Ray Stadia, really saying that riders should be told by the promotion not to use their and their tuners chosen oil, and use a lesser oil cos the fans like the smell.

Blimey, and folks on here think the BSPA are crackers. It's a technical decision, based on what riders think is the superior oil for their engines. I really can't see DEAN using a certain make of oil cos he's got to make a smell for the crowd, and he can't use his own oil.

[ruffdiamond]

Sadly, not as much as it used to. :sad:

 

Bloody Health & Safety. :mad:

 

that does'nt look right for some reason

[Ray Stadia]

Are either of you TWK and Ray Stadia, really saying that riders should be told by the promotion not to use their and their tuners chosen oil, and use a lesser oil cos the fans like the smell.

Blimey, and folks on here think the BSPA are crackers. It's a technical decision, based on what riders think is the superior oil for their engines. I really can't see DEAN using a certain make of oil cos he's got to make a smell for the crowd, and he can't use his own oil.

When you say 'lesser oil', I am not sure what you mean Mr T? As I mentioned in an earlier post, there is no real evidence, that I can see, that non smelling oil is better for the engine, than oil that does smell! Therefore, as there has always been a tradition that speedway runs on R and gives that 'special smell', shouldn't it be retained? As TWK mentioned, about his late wife, many a fan revisiting speedway after many years absence, are likely to say, 'oh yes, I remember that smell!'. They go to modern day speedway and say, 'where has the smell gone?'. Are we really saying that we need to forget the grass roots of speedway, bury the past and run with modern day speedway? Which as we know, is alive and kicking and doing very well! I agree we don't want to go back to black leathers, cinders etc, but come on, some of speedway's heritage is worth preserving, is it not?

[Tsunami]

When you say 'lesser oil', I am not sure what you mean Mr T? As I mentioned in an earlier post, there is no real evidence, that I can see, that non smelling oil is better for the engine, than oil that does smell! Therefore, as there has always been a tradition that speedway runs on R and gives that 'special smell', shouldn't it be retained? As TWK mentioned, about his late wife, many a fan revisiting speedway after many years absence, are likely to say, 'oh yes, I remember that smell!'. They go to modern day speedway and say, 'where has the smell gone?'. Are we really saying that we need to forget the grass roots of speedway, bury the past and run with modern day speedway? Which as we know, is alive and kicking and doing very well! I agree we don't want to go back to black leathers, cinders etc, but come on, some of speedway's heritage is worth preserving, is it not?

Tinge of sarcasm there Ray. Whether one oil is better or worse than another oil, a rider knows what he likes and what he is prepared to pay for it, but as it's a technical decision, it is his choice to decide.

As it happens the smell that everyone craves about was a much stronger version that the one we have now. The noise is lower as well, and its shale not cinders. Things change for many reasons, but we can't just keep things cos that's how it's always been.

[Ray Stadia]

Tinge of sarcasm there Ray. Whether one oil is better or worse than another oil, a rider knows what he likes and what he is prepared to pay for it, but as it's a technical decision, it is his choice to decide.

As it happens the smell that everyone craves about was a much stronger version that the one we have now. The noise is lower as well, and its shale not cinders. Things change for many reasons, but we can't just keep things cos that's how it's always been.

I know it's shale now Mr T, I was merely stating yesteryear speedway! However, if you change too much, the riders will be riding in an empty stadium. Oh well, I wonder who will win the election?

Please see below!

 

I have just found the following on Roger Johns' website:

 

Lubrication

The quality and quantity of oil which is used in your GM speedway engine is crucial to it's longevity.

 

Peter Johns Racing reccommend the use of Castrol 'R' castor oil in your GM speedway engine, however whichever brand you use, be sure to keep it fresh and clean.

 

This means changing your engine oil every 2 heats without fail... engines which do not receive this treatment result in drastically increased wear and significantly lower service intervals.

 

Additionally, never be afraid to use the full and reccommended 850cc in any GM engine - running with any less often results in a significant reduction in the long-term performance of your engine as the valve springs (in particular the inlets) overheat and loose pressure due to a lack of oil flow to draw heat away from the spring itself.

 

Keep the faith and keep the smell !!!! (I am saying this, not Roger!)

 

Edited January 27, 2015 by Ray Stadia

[The White Knight]

Are either of you TWK and Ray Stadia, really saying that riders should be told by the promotion not to use their and their tuners chosen oil, and use a lesser oil cos the fans like the smell.

Blimey, and folks on here think the BSPA are crackers. It's a technical decision, based on what riders think is the superior oil for their engines. I really can't see DEAN using a certain make of oil cos he's got to make a smell for the crowd, and he can't use his own oil.

No, actually I am not Tsunami. What I am saying is that the Castrol 'R' smell was a contributing factor to people enjoying their Speedway. If the Riders today are happy with the Oil they are using that is fine by me.

 

All I am saying is that it is yet another thing that, to a large extent, has gone from Speedway Stadia and I mourn it's passing.

 

Things like that attracted people. Nowadays we have little noise by comparison (not Speedway's fault), lack of smell etc..

 

Nobody will be leaving Speedway because of lack of smell or noise - but - when all the little things that irritate people about Speedway are taken in to account they may add up to enough to put people off.

[Ray Stadia]

In fairness, we have all gone off the main topic of the original post. There is, apparently a new speedway engine being developed which will, apparently, outlast current engines, but will cost more to buy. I personally think, speedway's survival is based around the reduction of the costs, for all those involved in speedway, including the fans. I am not sure whether this new engine is the answer. I do wonder whether British speedway would be better off breaking away from the current organisations/federations/associations and sweeping the decks and starting with a fresh set up. It has to be said that much of the growth in speedway is in the lower end of speedway, i.e. National League and leagues such as the Midland League. Perhaps we should play on that strength. And perhaps we should draw on the experience of ex riders like Dean Fenton, who, let's face it, 'has been there and done it'. Dean has seen it warts and all, but it is obvious has a passion for speedway and it's survival. There is much from the past that should be retained and sorry Mr T, the smell, in my opinion, is very important for the future!

[ruffdiamond]

what could maybe be done in this situation is,,,

go round people's old garages and garden shed's and gather up all old/unused 'Castrol R', then take it to the speedway track of your choice. It could then be transfrered into drum's or can's and some people could be situated on the pit's roof and they could burn it all off, giving everyone a chance to experience that 'lovely smell',,, also, if any immigrant speedway rider's are trying to sneak in on a dubious average, it could be poured over them to fend them off, it'll be like killing 2 bird's with the same stone :-)

[Vince]

Have to say that in my experience the costs of engine servicing (we did our own engines but even paying somebody the same would apply) was small fry compared to the cost of travelling and time off work.

 

Running all Speedway on Saturday or Sunday would result in good savings for many riders and allow many more to take up the sport I suspect, pity it's completely impractical really

[foamfence]

In fairness, we have all gone off the main topic of the original post. There is, apparently a new speedway engine being developed which will, apparently, outlast current engines, but will cost more to buy. I personally think, speedway's survival is based around the reduction of the costs, for all those involved in speedway, including the fans. I am not sure whether this new engine is the answer. I do wonder whether British speedway would be better off breaking away from the current organisations/federations/associations and sweeping the decks and starting with a fresh set up. It has to be said that much of the growth in speedway is in the lower end of speedway, i.e. National League and leagues such as the Midland League. Perhaps we should play on that strength. And perhaps we should draw on the experience of ex riders like Dean Fenton, who, let's face it, 'has been there and done it'. Dean has seen it warts and all, but it is obvious has a passion for speedway and it's survival. There is much from the past that should be retained and sorry Mr T, the smell, in my opinion, is very important for the future!

Surely you mean Dean FELTON?

[FAST GATER]

what could maybe be done in this situation is,,,

go round people's old garages and garden shed's and gather up all old/unused 'Castrol R', then take it to the speedway track of your choice. It could then be transfrered into drum's or can's and some people could be situated on the pit's roof and they could burn it all off, giving everyone a chance to experience that 'lovely smell',,, also, if any immigrant speedway rider's are trying to sneak in on a dubious average, it could be poured over them to fend them off, it'll be like killing 2 bird's with the same stone :-)

Still got about 2 1/2 lts of Castrol R in the original gallon tin this could start you off ,joking aside we have to move on and I'm with Mr T on this .