Ray Stadia Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 (edited) Ray Stadia, on 27 Jan 2015 - 11:57 PM, said: In fairness, we have all gone off the main topic of the original post. There is, apparently a new speedway engine being developed which will, apparently, outlast current engines, but will cost more to buy. I personally think, speedway's survival is based around the reduction of the costs, for all those involved in speedway, including the fans. I am not sure whether this new engine is the answer. I do wonder whether British speedway would be better off breaking away from the current organisations/federations/associations and sweeping the decks and starting with a fresh set up. It has to be said that much of the growth in speedway is in the lower end of speedway, i.e. National League and leagues such as the Midland League. Perhaps we should play on that strength. And perhaps we should draw on the experience of ex riders like Dean Fenton, who, let's face it, 'has been there and done it'. Dean has seen it warts and all, but it is obvious has a passion for speedway and it's survival. There is much from the past that should be retained and sorry Mr T, the smell, in my opinion, is very important for the future! Surely you mean Dean FELTON? Sorry, yes, Dean Felton. Still got about 2 1/2 lts of Castrol R in the original gallon tin this could start you off ,joking aside we have to move on and I'm with Mr T on this . I would agree that we would need to move on if mineral/synthetic oil was better than bean oil, but if Peter Johns recommends bean oil in the engines he tunes, why are riders not using it? I have to say, Castrol R was far and away more expensive years ago and riders could have made a lot of saving then by using mineral oil, but synthetic oil is a similar price to castor oil. Just mineral oil is still cheaper, but I wouldn't use that in a high revving engine, myself. Edited January 28, 2015 by Ray Stadia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 (edited) Still got about 2 1/2 lts of Castrol R in the original gallon tin this could start you off ,joking aside we have to move on and I'm with Mr T on this . If you could send me some in a bottle for me to 'sniff' from time to time, I would be grateful. :o Edited January 28, 2015 by The White Knight 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Stadia Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 If you could send me some in a bottle for me to 'sniff' from time to time, I would be grateful. :o You could cook your chips in it TWK! Don't drink it though, it will give you the trots! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 Maybe the sense of smell deteriorates with age ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 Maybe the sense of smell deteriorates with age ? Cheeky b*gger!! :nono: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 TWK, I was being partly serious. We use the same "R" oil in my son's Grasstrack GM as i used in my Jap 40 odd years ago, difference is I can't smell it now like I could then. Maybe we become immune to the smell.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 TWK, I was being partly serious. We use the same "R" oil in my son's Grasstrack GM as i used in my Jap 40 odd years ago, difference is I can't smell it now like I could then. Maybe we become immune to the smell.? I thought you were casting aspersions at my age. :rofl: Sorry. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruffdiamond Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 It's not just your sense of smell that goes, it's ye senses in general :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theknow 2 Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 From the viewpoint Tsunami, that those involved in the sport would think, 'it is now thought that synthetic oil is best in a speedway engine', but it would appear, nobody involved in the sport has thought, 'but the fans like the smell of castor oil and that could be detrimental'. In other words, not thinking about the fans experience and what they get from the sport. By the way, I have done some research on castor versus synthetic and the jury appears to be well and truly out. One article stated that Castrol still felt Castrol R was best for methanol burning engines. Maybe the promotors could buy a few tins and put in a pan on a BBQ on each bend to give the fans the smell ???? lol. Castor oil is a very good lubricant and the latest type produced by companys like Maxama are very good indeed. The problem with caster oil is it goes off quickly when exposed to the atmosphere and if left goes like jelly then rock. It is also a dirty oil which is not so bad in speedway as it is changed every few races and the engines are serviced often, which cures the problem of it going sticky and carbon deposits building up. However modern synthetic oils have a far better viscosity range are clean oils and lubricate as good as a castor but without all the bad side effects. There are also good and bad synt oils out there. I do believe castor does not wash off as easy as synthetic with methonal fuel which is one plus. If it were me riding I would perhaps run the Maxama castor but as I say the modern top make oils are xilent. Main wear I believe is the bikes having the nuts reved off them from cold in the pits. Any oil does not lubricate properly until it reaches 85/90 and its best operating temp of 100. Also new oil does not lub at its best until it has been used so changing the oil after 4 races in some ways is worse than leaving it a bit longer. With a proper oil pump and system, proper warm up and warm down as air cooled would increase component level greatly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 Maybe the promotors could buy a few tins and put in a pan on a BBQ on each bend to give the fans the smell ???? lol. Castor oil is a very good lubricant and the latest type produced by companys like Maxama are very good indeed. The problem with caster oil is it goes off quickly when exposed to the atmosphere and if left goes like jelly then rock. It is also a dirty oil which is not so bad in speedway as it is changed every few races and the engines are serviced often, which cures the problem of it going sticky and carbon deposits building up. However modern synthetic oils have a far better viscosity range are clean oils and lubricate as good as a castor but without all the bad side effects. There are also good and bad synt oils out there. I do believe castor does not wash off as easy as synthetic with methonal fuel which is one plus. If it were me riding I would perhaps run the Maxama castor but as I say the modern top make oils are xilent. Main wear I believe is the bikes having the nuts reved off them from cold in the pits. Any oil does not lubricate properly until it reaches 85/90 and its best operating temp of 100. Also new oil does not lub at its best until it has been used so changing the oil after 4 races in some ways is worse than leaving it a bit longer. With a proper oil pump and system, proper warm up and warm down as air cooled would increase component level greatly. synthetic oils do not mix well with methanol. usually turn a white milky colour in my experiance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Potter 2 Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 (edited) You will never get the smell of oil any more as the engines have to now recycle the oil. Its is empted at the end of a meeting or after a race. Hence no smell as now not total lose any more, so no hot oil dropping on to the track. Edited January 29, 2015 by Mad Potter 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyretrax Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 Maybe the promotors could buy a few tins and put in a pan on a BBQ on each bend to give the fans the smell ???? lol. Castor oil is a very good lubricant and the latest type produced by companys like Maxama are very good indeed. The problem with caster oil is it goes off quickly when exposed to the atmosphere and if left goes like jelly then rock. It is also a dirty oil which is not so bad in speedway as it is changed every few races and the engines are serviced often, which cures the problem of it going sticky and carbon deposits building up. However modern synthetic oils have a far better viscosity range are clean oils and lubricate as good as a castor but without all the bad side effects. There are also good and bad synt oils out there. I do believe castor does not wash off as easy as synthetic with methonal fuel which is one plus. If it were me riding I would perhaps run the Maxama castor but as I say the modern top make oils are xilent. Main wear I believe is the bikes having the nuts reved off them from cold in the pits. Any oil does not lubricate properly until it reaches 85/90 and its best operating temp of 100. Also new oil does not lub at its best until it has been used so changing the oil after 4 races in some ways is worse than leaving it a bit longer. With a proper oil pump and system, proper warm up and warm down as air cooled would increase component level greatly. Charlie Monk had a Thermos flask containing warm oil which he put into the oil tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 Charlie Monk had a Thermos flask containing warm oil which he put into the oil tank. i think Shell put a Tiger in your Tank about the same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 i think Shell put a Tiger in your Tank about the same time. Nope!! :nono: ESSO. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Stadia Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 (edited) You will never get the smell of oil any more as the engines have to now recycle the oil. Its is empted at the end of a meeting or after a race. Hence no smell as now not total lose any more, so no hot oil dropping on to the track. Unless things have changed, but I believe there is not an oil ring on a speedway engine piston, which is one of the reasons you get the whiff, 'total loss' or not! I think Elf White Ideal, was a good oil! And had a rich castor smell! Wonderful! EDIT:- On research, I think I am wrong. Certainly modern pistons seem to have a compression ring and a scraper/oil ring. I don't think this was always the case? Perhaps the introduction of an oil ring is one of the reasons for the reduced smell? Edited January 29, 2015 by Ray Stadia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long Eye Posted January 30, 2015 Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 Ray Stadia, on 27 Jan 2015 - 11:57 PM, said: Surely you mean Dean FELTON? Sorry, yes, Dean Felton. Still got about 2 1/2 lts of Castrol R in the original gallon tin this could start you off ,joking aside we have to move on and I'm with Mr T on this . I would agree that we would need to move on if mineral/synthetic oil was better than bean oil, but if Peter Johns recommends bean oil in the engines he tunes, why are riders not using it? I have to say, Castrol R was far and away more expensive years ago and riders could have made a lot of saving then by using mineral oil, but synthetic oil is a similar price to castor oil. Just mineral oil is still cheaper, but I wouldn't use that in a high revving engine, myself. Lots of riders still use Castrol 'R'. Castrol changed the make up of it years ago to improve performance. Most other oils used in speedway are castor based just produced by different manufacturers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theknow 2 Posted January 30, 2015 Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 synthetic oils do not mix well with methanol. usually turn a white milky colour in my experiance synthetic oils do not mix well with methanol. usually turn a white milky colour in my experiance Yes as I said but it should stay above the rings unless serious overfueling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle Posted January 30, 2015 Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 Yes as I said but it should stay above the rings unless serious overfueling. never worked for me and others even with a fresh motor.4 laps and oil is milky white and basically shagged. nothing wrong with Castrol r 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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