New Speedway Engine

[theknow 2]

You are missing the point of the discussion TK2, with respect. Speedway in, at least, this country is struggling and probably dying on it's backside. The main issues are not enough people through the turnstiles and big expenses for the riders and the promoters. If that cost can be reduced, there might be a win for everyone and a salvation of British speedway for the future. (Why you liked his comment Tsunami is beyond me?). Speedway at the bottom end is a cheap motor sport. Speedway at the top end is very expensive, with few fans watching it!

engines and costs have nothing to do with people through the gate. speedway is dying as 99% of young people have no interest in it and never will. speedway is a cheap sport to do and the riders do ok out of it mostly. yes you can make a reliable engine and if riders cant afford to or get into speedway don't bother and do something else.

[Ray Stadia]

engines and costs have nothing to do with people through the gate. speedway is dying as 99% of young people have no interest in it and never will. speedway is a cheap sport to do and the riders do ok out of it mostly. yes you can make a reliable engine and if riders cant afford to or get into speedway don't bother and do something else.

I am not sure what you mean TK2? The promoters pay the riders and the promoters are paid by the supporters. The riders pay demands are relative to what they need to earn, net of their costs. If the riders costs can be reduced, the net pay the rider needs is less, which is less pressure on the promoter, which in turn means less pressure on the numbers through the gate, which might mean less tracks closing, perhaps more opening and overall a more healthy sport. You could be right, it might be too late, but then it might not be.

[theknow 2]

I am not sure what you mean TK2? The promoters pay the riders and the promoters are paid by the supporters. The riders pay demands are relative to what they need to earn, net of their costs. If the riders costs can be reduced, the net pay the rider needs is less, which is less pressure on the promoter, which in turn means less pressure on the numbers through the gate, which might mean less tracks closing, perhaps more opening and overall a more healthy sport. You could be right, it might be too late, but then it might not be.

But riders wages wont drop even if there costs do. Same for promoters, I know a few and they all do very well out of speedway. Don't forget this is a cash industry for both I know a lot of riders who do well from the cash side and benefit in kind which is never declared.

Anyway back to the engine, run them on unleaded, save a lot of problems and hassle

[foamfence]

But riders wages wont drop even if there costs do. Same for promoters, I know a few and they all do very well out of speedway. Don't forget this is a cash industry for both I know a lot of riders who do well from the cash side and benefit in kind which is never declared.

Anyway back to the engine, run them on unleaded, save a lot of problems and hassle

I think someone has been having you on.

[Tsunami]

But riders wages wont drop even if there costs do. Same for promoters, I know a few and they all do very well out of speedway. Don't forget this is a cash industry for both I know a lot of riders who do well from the cash side and benefit in kind which is never declared.

Anyway back to the engine, run them on unleaded, save a lot of problems and hassle

Total balls. True possibly 30 years ago, but very little made in speedway by a few these days, in either the true market or the black one you mention. In your world, why do tracks go out of business then. A certain Brum promoter lost a lot of cash even though he was an accountant, so obviously not a big fiddle factor as you suggest, your comments are more a reflection of your own experiences.

[theknow 2]

Total balls. True possibly 30 years ago, but very little made in speedway by a few these days, in either the true market or the black one you mention. In your world, why do tracks go out of business then. A certain Brum promoter lost a lot of cash even though he was an accountant, so obviously not a big fiddle factor as you suggest, your comments are more a reflection of your own experiences.

Yes they do !!!! They go out of business like any as they are badly run and most of the cash coming in goes out and not into the business. The brum promoter pissed every one off so no one turned up, not rocket science is IT !!!!

[Humphrey Appleby]

Total balls. True possibly 30 years ago, but very little made in speedway by a few these days, in either the true market or the black one you mention. In your world, why do tracks go out of business then. A certain Brum promoter lost a lot of cash even though he was an accountant, so obviously not a big fiddle factor as you suggest, your comments are more a reflection of your own experiences.

It was more than 10 years ago when I last looked, but some promotions were putting odd things through the books. That's what they were declaring, so one wonders what wasn't being declared.

 

You can roughly estimate income and outgoings though, and it doesn't take an accountant to work out there's no money in the sport. It's probably more a question of what the real scale of losses are.

[FAST GATER]

It was more than 10 years ago when I last looked, but some promotions were putting odd things through the books. That's what they were declaring, so one wonders what wasn't being declared.

 

You can roughly estimate income and outgoings though, and it doesn't take an accountant to work out there's no money in the sport. It's probably more a question of what the real scale of losses are.

Spot on in most cases the best they can hope for is s/way being a paying hobby ,this applies to the riders as well as most return post carreer to normal everyday jobs .Unlike football and other pro sports s/way never yields the rewards that could set them up for life after s/way with the exception of handful at the very top of the sport. Therefore if their operating costs could be lower then they stand a very slim chance of making a few bob promoter and rider alike .There are very few promoters who make their sole living out of promoting s/way if any they normally have a day job( business interests elsewhere) as it were as well.

Edited January 24, 2015 by FAST GATER

[Tsunami]

It was more than 10 years ago when I last looked, but some promotions were putting odd things through the books. That's what they were declaring, so one wonders what wasn't being declared.

 

You can roughly estimate income and outgoings though, and it doesn't take an accountant to work out there's no money in the sport. It's probably more a question of what the real scale of losses are.

The original insinuation was that it was a cash industry. It has been in the past, but a lot of clubs pay electronically, as they also do for normal goods and services. The usual brown envelopes with money in are only mentioned on here. We give our riders brown envelopes after a meeting, but they include payslips and their meeting booking forms for the next couple of weeks.

 

As you say you can work out roughly ins and outs of a club and understand that someone, either the promotions or the sponsors, must be making up the difference. The BSPA don't allow rollover debts with them or other clubs. Can't pay your debts at say AGM time, and you don't start the next year. Still talking about promoters pocketing large cash sums from speedway by some, just shows their ignorance or their prediduces. What happens at say GP level might be different.

[foamfence]

The original insinuation was that it was a cash industry. It has been in the past, but a lot of clubs pay electronically, as they also do for normal goods and services. The usual brown envelopes with money in are only mentioned on here. We give our riders brown envelopes after a meeting, but they include payslips and their meeting booking forms for the next couple of weeks.

 

As you say you can work out roughly ins and outs of a club and understand that someone, either the promotions or the sponsors, must be making up the difference. The BSPA don't allow rollover debts with them or other clubs. Can't pay your debts at say AGM time, and you don't start the next year. Still talking about promoters pocketing large cash sums from speedway by some, just shows their ignorance or their prediduces. What happens at say GP level might be different.

Aren't most riders paid in Euro's these days?

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

The BSPA don't allow rollover debts with them or other clubs. Can't pay your debts at say AGM time, and you don't start the next year

Stoke and Swindon and others , how many years was Leigh Adams and others owed money? and Swindon still run, clubs lose money , promotors don't , apart from his reputation in speedway the ex Birmingham promotor is still doing ok for himself and isn't going to be appearing on the next series of Benifit St anytime soon Edited January 24, 2015 by THE DEAN MACHINE

[The White Knight]

Stoke and Swindon and others , how many years was Leigh Adams and others owed money? and Swindon still run, clubs lose money , promotors don't , apart from his reputation in speedway the ex Birmingham promotor is still doing ok for himself,

That is something I had not thought about Dean.

[Tsunami]

That is something I had not thought about Dean.

Just Dean's obsession that promoters make money from speedway. Heaven forbid.

 

BTW. Phillips accountancy business is a different business to BRUM speedway.

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

Just Dean's obsession that promoters make money from speedway. Heaven forbid.

 

BTW. Phillips accountancy business is a different business to BRUM speedway.

, it's not just promotors making money but while the sport is on deaths door some are sitting on the Ivory towers making a good living at it , I apreciate that it's not everyone , I know one person who is making nothing in it and to be honest I think it's taking toll on his health but he won't walk away Edited January 24, 2015 by THE DEAN MACHINE

[Tsunami]

, it's not just promotors making money but while the sport is on deaths door some are sitting on the Ivory towers making a good living at it , I apreciate that it's not everyone , I know one person who is making nothing in it and to be honest I think it's taking toll on his health but he won't walk away

You won't have it will you. THERE ARE VERY FEW PROMOTERS THAT MAKE MONEY OUT OF SPEEDWAY. Do your own sums.

You're very much 'chip on the shoulder' DEAN. Everybody is NOT out to fleece you.

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

You won't have it will you. THERE ARE VERY FEW PROMOTERS THAT MAKE MONEY OUT OF SPEEDWAY. Do your own sums.

You're very much 'chip on the shoulder' DEAN. Everybody is NOT out to fleece you.

thanks for kinds words lol ,nobody is fleecing me , I have done ok out of speedway I only have a small finacial intrest in speedway and that with my intrest is ending because it has just worn me down to the point where I just don't care anymore Edited January 24, 2015 by THE DEAN MACHINE

[greyhoundp]

You won't have it will you. THERE ARE VERY FEW PROMOTERS THAT MAKE MONEY OUT OF SPEEDWAY. Do your own sums.

You're very much 'chip on the shoulder' DEAN. Everybody is NOT out to fleece you.

 

Tsunami, I am pretty sure Dean isnt thinking its about promoters fleecing him, its more a point of "The Establishment" in this case The BSPA having there heads in the clouds, supporters banging there heads against a brick wall, because the BSPA wont/dont see the need for change, to save what almost everyone perceives to be a dying Sport, not only that, but they appear to not want to listen to anyone from the outside of there little Castle, nor can they see the walls have been crumbling for many years now.

[Tsunami]

 

Tsunami, I am pretty sure Dean isnt thinking its about promoters fleecing him, its more a point of "The Establishment" in this case The BSPA having there heads in the clouds, supporters banging there heads against a brick wall, because the BSPA wont/dont see the need for change, to save what almost everyone perceives to be a dying Sport, not only that, but they appear to not want to listen to anyone from the outside of there little Castle, nor can they see the walls have been crumbling for many years now.

I hear what you say but DEAN opposes anything from the BSPA and the SCB introduce, even when it greatly assists riders whose point of view he seems to be expressing. Look through previous posts and the theme of fleecing is very obvious. BTW, Do you think promoters make money out of speedway.

[Humphrey Appleby]

What happens at say GP level might be different.

BSI seem to turn an okay profit, and its executives seem to be decently rewarded into the bargain, but it's not mega money by the standards of most top level competitions. Of course it's 3 million quid that could be going into speedway's coffers rather than those of an American corporation to blow on golf courses and the like, but no-one seems to care about that.

 

Would be surprised if the local GP promoters are turning much if anything in profit, but of course it's much easier to cover your losses on a single event then a season's worth.

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

I hear what you say but DEAN opposes anything from the BSPA and the SCB introduce, even when it greatly assists riders whose point of view he seems to be expressing.

I'm trying to express my views as a fan and the reason I oppose so many things that the Bspa/SCB introduce is because they are no good but it dosent really matter if I like them or not the fact is 1000s have deserted the sport over the last few years and then we get revolutionary ideas like changing a helmet colour because "we have listened to the fans" . I know I boil the piss of promoters with my views because some have told me so but that doesn't make me wrong , I don't have a problem with anybody making money out of the sport as long as they put something back in , I know promoters put a lot back in but they won't speculate to acumulate (understandable maybe) but until it happens the sport won't go anywhere and all their decisions are short term plaster over ideas instead of future prospect , the sport needs to go one of two ways , either make it like F1 and all money and glamour with someone like Bernie exclestone at the helm and alienate its current fan base but apeal to a new breed of fan or it needs to take s step back to the garden shed type sport it has always been and go that that root making the sport cheaper for riders and fans and try to attract the former fans back who have become fed up with the current version of the sport which has become too expensive for itself and has a bit of "its a knockout" feel about it with stupid rules and formats, I would prefer the step back because to me that's what speedways apeal is and has always been but whichever way it goes we can't stay as we are Edited January 25, 2015 by THE DEAN MACHINE