New Speedway Engine

[barncooseboy]

Marcels engine has a very efficient oil pump system to ensure long life of the engine, its twin cam and is currently on test in France with UK importer Kelvin Tatum.

 

It arrives fully built, not a kit, ready to go and eexpected to be GP ready standard straight out of the box.

 

Marcel is a superb engineer and wouldnt put his name to anything that wasnt well engineerd, uniquely it hads been approved to be allowed to be called Swiss Made which means it has passed the tests that would qualify it as an ISO approved product in the UK. You know like all the Swiss watch makers.

 

There are a lot of techniques borrowed from Formula 1 in its build, believe it comes complete with a very special ignition system as well BUT think availability MAY be limited at least at first.

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

Marcels engine has a very efficient oil pump system to ensure long life of the engine, its twin cam and is currently on test in France with UK importer Kelvin Tatum.

 

It arrives fully built, not a kit, ready to go and eexpected to be GP ready standard straight out of the box.

 

Marcel is a superb engineer and wouldnt put his name to anything that wasnt well engineerd, uniquely it hads been approved to be allowed to be called Swiss Made which means it has passed the tests that would qualify it as an ISO approved product in the UK. You know like all the Swiss watch makers.

 

There are a lot of techniques borrowed from Formula 1 in its build, believe it comes complete with a very special ignition system as well BUT think availability MAY be limited at least at first.

sounds brilliant , won't get 1single new person through the turnstiles but will make the current ones pay more . Just what the sport needs , I give up

[PHILIPRISING]

sounds brilliant , won't get 1single new person through the turnstiles but will make the current ones pay more . Just what the sport needs , I give up

WHY will it make people pay more?

 

It's not the job of engine manufacturers to attract people through the gate but if they can help reduce rider costs then that has to be a step in the right direction.

[Agrotron]

Get the goddens and westlakes back out

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

WHY will it make people pay more?

 

It's not the job of engine manufacturers to attract people through the gate but if they can help reduce rider costs then that has to be a step in the right direction.

Phillip you are seriously in a dream world if you think this is going to reduce costs , with what has been described it is going to double costs . And it's everyone's job to get people through the turnstiles unfortunately only the very few can see past their own bank balance to make this happen

[PHILIPRISING]

I RESPECT your opinion but plenty of people believe it is possible to produce an engine that will run for much longer between services and prove far more economical for riders at all levels without any decrease in performance as compared to a GM.

 

At present GM have a virtual monopoly, which is always a dangerous thing in any market, and who knows if they face serious competition they might have to bring down their prices.

 

Of course, the actual market isn't that big compared to other motor sports. I was told that less than a 1000 engines are sold each year which may sound a lot but isn't when you think that a company like Yamaha could probably knock those out in a week... hence their dis-interest, along with Honda et al over the years.

 

Anyway, time will tell. This new prototype may never go into full production, it may not be viable, may not get the funding it undoubtedly will require but ultimately the proof will be in the pudding.

 

But I do think that your comment that it will "double costs" is purely speculative and without any foundation.

[customhouseregular]

Not being an engineer or mechanic I do not understand the finer points of speedway engines. Why did the Jawa, so long a stalwart and the Weslake, once the chosen unit not continue development?.

[foamfence]

Not being an engineer or mechanic I do not understand the finer points of speedway engines. Why did the Jawa, so long a stalwart and the Weslake, once the chosen unit not continue development?.

There are still people using Jawa, they just went out of fashion. Kenneth Bjerre and Tai Woffinden both used them successfully in recent years.

[racers and royals]

There are still people using Jawa, they just went out of fashion. Kenneth Bjerre and Tai Woffinden both used them successfully in recent years.

I suspect it might have said Jawa on the outside-but wasn`t Jawa on the inside.

[PHILIPRISING]

There are still people using Jawa, they just went out of fashion. Kenneth Bjerre and Tai Woffinden both used them successfully in recent years.

SOME might say unsuccessfully...

[scaramanga]

think a review of engines could be a good thing possibly look to switching to a engine from road bikes or moto cross

a more comon base engine would make them cheaper for the lower riders as they could buy them from breakers yards and such places but like every change of this type very hard to bring in when every one has to spend money all at the same time it would have to be done over a period of time

speedway engines are too expensive and not reliable enough once tunned for the good of the sport they need more cash spent on them than the average teenager

[foamfence]

I suspect it might have said Jawa on the outside-but wasn`t Jawa on the inside.

Well you can say that about most engines, top engine builders and tuners use lots of none standard parts.

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

I RESPECT your opinion but plenty of people believe it is possible to produce an engine that will run for much longer between services and prove far more economical for riders at all levels without any decrease in performance as compared to a GM.

unless they have discovered some new materials on Mars that the Pistons valves and rods etc are going to be made from they are still going to blow up ,you could cut the service time by using the jawa idea which would be around a 5th of the cost to buy in the 1st place ,race car teams all round the world have all the best brains on the planet and spend millions and their engines still blow up , we have become a sport dictated to by the "tuner" and it's got to stop , I'm sure this bloke with this new engine is s nice bloke and is very intelligent but he is not doing this for the Benifit of the sport he is doing this to make himself money ,which is ok for him but as with most parts we use now they just double in price ,the service is mainly big end bearings ,rings and since the new silencers the valve springs ,has he invented a new big end bearing that can withstand the sort of revs speedway produces ? I have been around speedway to long and know how prices get inflated and this has that written all over it

I've said it before but speedway is a garden shed type sport and the further we get away from that the less the public buy into it , mechanical progress is all well and dandy but the fan on the terraces just doesn't care

[piston197]

one difference with speedway though is its not always the one with the best bhp that wins ,because of its nature of wheelspin it about how much power you can get to the track and that unlike other motorsports . You get the highest bhp possible from a speedway engine put it on a slick track with no dirt and you will win nothing

A trick I was taught by Steve Saunders when trying to find grip on trials bikes up slippery surfaces was to hold open the throttle , but press firmly on the rear brake to prevent the wheel spinning and braking traction, i.e. killing the horsepower with the back brake. and finding grip , power can be fed in or out in this way

Maybe "having no brakes" on a speedway bike is a disadvantage as they can be used to find grip if you know what you are doing, can't argue the case for a front brake though

 

Happy new year

[Vince]

While it's true that any type of engine will have blow ups very few engines at any level have between service intervals of less than an hour which is about where Speedway engines are.

 

You don't need new materials from Mars to extend engine longevity just using the best quality bearings and metals that are currently available will do so considerably, stuff like ceramic bearings, high grade alloys and top quality machining will do so to a good extent. Careful design, especially in the area of lubrication and cooling where current Speedway engines are very weak would bring the biggest gains in my opinion.

The build quality and design of current Speedway engines is more comparable to a 1960's BSA than a modern Japanese motorcycle engine.

 

Speedway engines are different to others in some ways because of the heavy rotating mass and the way they are ridden. To my way of thinking that alone isn't enough to anywhere near account for the fact that they are so much less reliable than comparable race engines. Modern mx engines have between 25 and 40 hour service intervals depending on the manufacturer and the 450 bikes will often do 3 or 4 times that amount in the hands of amateurs. Even at GP level they do a couple of hours hard use between rebuilds (just because works teams can and like a Speedway GP engine will be rebuilt after less than 15 minutes).

 

I'm not arguing that this new engine is the best way forward for the sport only that I believe it is possible to build a Speedway engine that is many more times reliable than those currently in use.

[Humphrey Appleby]

I RESPECT your opinion but plenty of people believe it is possible to produce an engine that will run for much longer between services and prove far more economical for riders at all levels without any decrease in performance as compared to a GM.

Of course it is. There are kart engines that rev up to 15,000 that will run competitively for 10 hours or more, but the issues come when people start fiddling with the components and squeezing the tolerances, not to mention mucking around with the carburetion. That's when things stop running as long or as reliably.

[Bream]

Please, dont bring MX engines to the conversation. They are not even close to the beating that speedway engines are having. In same rpm range speedway engines would also go for many many many hours. But speedway engines wont see these rpms after warming up at the pits.

 

Here is a helmet cam from Ryan Villopoto racing in Unadilla.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2fuUeDqATM

[Rob Lee]

 

Spot on. A few people have said it in different ways in this topic, but it doesn't matter where the engine comes from or how cheap it is to buy, riders will understandably tweak it to try & get an advantage, then the costs will spiral. The only way to cap costs is to have a standard engine with a ban on any mods (for league racing - you'd have to have more freedom for GP riders).

 

Ideally, each track would have a stock of engines and they'd be allocated at random at the start of a meeting. Ideally.................was that a pig that just fluttered by?

 

Happy new year

On the subject of porcine aviation, another way to reduce engine costs would be for the promoters to pay the riders only what the sport can afford, so the riders wouldn't have the money to spend on trick engines. Then maybe admission prices could be reduced or at least pegged and attendances might go up.

 

If the GP riders didn't like that, tough. The GP has already emasculated team / league speedway in this country.

[theknow 2]

Marcels engine has a very efficient oil pump system to ensure long life of the engine, its twin cam and is currently on test in France with UK importer Kelvin Tatum.

 

It arrives fully built, not a kit, ready to go and eexpected to be GP ready standard straight out of the box.

 

Marcel is a superb engineer and wouldnt put his name to anything that wasnt well engineerd, uniquely it hads been approved to be allowed to be called Swiss Made which means it has passed the tests that would qualify it as an ISO approved product in the UK. You know like all the Swiss watch makers.

 

There are a lot of techniques borrowed from Formula 1 in its build, believe it comes complete with a very special ignition system as well BUT think availability MAY be limited at least at first.

Spoke to Kelvin about the new engine at the Torun sgp and he was very xcited about it.

WHY will it make people pay more?

 

It's not the job of engine manufacturers to attract people through the gate but if they can help reduce rider costs then that has to be a step in the right direction.

Competion with more engine makers should bring the cost down, also if it is good out the box like i have heard it will save on all these so called tuners costs.

I RESPECT your opinion but plenty of people believe it is possible to produce an engine that will run for much longer between services and prove far more economical for riders at all levels without any decrease in performance as compared to a GM.

 

At present GM have a virtual monopoly, which is always a dangerous thing in any market, and who knows if they face serious competition they might have to bring down their prices.

 

Of course, the actual market isn't that big compared to other motor sports. I was told that less than a 1000 engines are sold each year which may sound a lot but isn't when you think that a company like Yamaha could probably knock those out in a week... hence their dis-interest, along with Honda et al over the years.

 

Anyway, time will tell. This new prototype may never go into full production, it may not be viable, may not get the funding it undoubtedly will require but ultimately the proof will be in the pudding.

 

But I do think that your comment that it will "double costs" is purely speculative and without any foundation.

100% agree Phil, the current gm engine is overpriced for what it is, basic rubbishe. The so called tuners in the UK dont have an engineering qualifaction that i know of, just there the best of a bad bunch who charge a fortune for basic tuning.

 

Take motor cross, super motad and other 4 stroke single bike racing, they produce engines which are powerful but reliable. yes they can be tuned but the basic product is good. The main issue is the GM engine is not a good product from the factory and has had little Rand D for the last 10+ years.

On the subject of porcine aviation, another way to reduce engine costs would be for the promoters to pay the riders only what the sport can afford, so the riders wouldn't have the money to spend on trick engines. Then maybe admission prices could be reduced or at least pegged and attendances might go up.

 

If the GP riders didn't like that, tough. The GP has already emasculated team / league speedway in this country.

The best riders will always have the best equipment. been the same for the last 30 years. SGP has not ruined uk speedway at all. Look to the BSPA and the useless promoters for your reason it is in the state it is.

[SCB]

Of course it is. There are kart engines that rev up to 15,000 that will run competitively for 10 hours or more, but the issues come when people start fiddling with the components and squeezing the tolerances, not to mention mucking around with the carburetion. That's when things stop running as long or as reliably.

Exactly. It's quite simple, you can have fast or you can have reliable. The holy grail is fast and reliable but in reality, it doesn't exist. As soon as it's fast it's not going to be as reliable. And if this engine comes out and is reliable, someone will take away some of the reliability to make it faster at a cost, meaning you now have a faster bike that costs more. If you cold guarantee it would stay as standard then brilliant but it won't - someone will make it faster.