Long Eye Posted December 30, 2014 Report Share Posted December 30, 2014 Brilliant, which Lawnmower did it come out of ? I couldn't give a monkeys how economical it is it will do nothing for the sport. They already tampered with the Exhurst now they want to bugger about with the Engine, what will it be next ?? Ah, ang on, the fuel !! Do you have a brain? Who is 'they' that you refer to that are buggering about with the engines? It's just a new manufacturer on the market. There's also a new Godden on the market very soon. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starman2006 Posted December 30, 2014 Report Share Posted December 30, 2014 (edited) Do you have a brain? Who is 'they' that you refer to that are buggering about with the engines? It's just a new manufacturer on the market. There's also a new Godden on the market very soon. Yes i do actually, but i agree with The Dean Machine, untill proved otherwise.. Nothing ive seen in the last few years has improved the sport. But im very sure you'l point out otherwise.. Edited December 30, 2014 by Starman2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post THE DEAN MACHINE Posted December 30, 2014 Popular Post Report Share Posted December 30, 2014 While it's great to have choice what British speedway needs is a manufacturer to produce a cost effective but reliable engine for around £1000 and all the parts that are holomagated to go with it and that company sponsor British speedway for a set fee every year and it return they get their engines used exclusively in British speedway ,other than holomagated no other parts can be used ,no parts can be modified and only servicing is allowed , the costs plumet ,engines are all fair (as much as they can be ,although someone will always get an advantage) and British speedway gets a much needed sponsor . Pick holes in that plan 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted December 30, 2014 Report Share Posted December 30, 2014 While it's great to have choice what British speedway needs is a manufacturer to produce a cost effective but reliable engine for around £1000 and all the parts that are holomagated to go with it and that company sponsor British speedway for a set fee every year and it return they get their engines used exclusively in British speedway ,other than holomagated no other parts can be used ,no parts can be modified and only servicing is allowed , the costs plumet ,engines are all fair (as much as they can be ,although someone will always get an advantage) and British speedway gets a much needed sponsor . Pick holes in that plan The only hole that I can pick Dean - is finding said Sponsor. Terrific idea though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE DEAN MACHINE Posted December 30, 2014 Report Share Posted December 30, 2014 (edited) The only hole that I can pick Dean - is finding said Sponsor. Terrific idea though. jawa ,how many units do they sell in uk every year? Not many but if they are guaranteed exclusive use of their units but they have to pay British speedway ,this practice is wide spread in many businesses , this idea goes for any manufacturer but I just think jawa is in the best position to make it work Edited December 30, 2014 by THE DEAN MACHINE 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted December 30, 2014 Report Share Posted December 30, 2014 jawa ,how many units do they sell in uk every year? Not many but if they are guaranteed exclusive use of their units but they have to pay British speedway ,this practice is wide spread in many businesses , this idea goes for any manufacturer but I just think jawa is in the best position to make it work Has anyone at Jawa/BSPA been approached with this suggestion. They would be mad not to, at least, investigate the possibilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foamfence Posted December 30, 2014 Report Share Posted December 30, 2014 Has anyone at Jawa/BSPA been approached with this suggestion. They would be mad not to, at least, investigate the possibilities. On Hugh Skidmore's Facebook page there is a video of him practising on an F2. It's quite a rough track but it still looks good enough to race. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shale Searcher Posted December 30, 2014 Report Share Posted December 30, 2014 (edited) Just as a matter of interest, how many of the top (European leagues) riders still use a Jawa motor? The last one I saw was in use by Lasse Bjerre, UK El and PL rider..... Edited December 30, 2014 by Shale Searcher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oafski Posted December 31, 2014 Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 I'm surmising that this 2 valve Jawa engine is lower revving than the 4 valve motors due to having larger valves with greater inertia,so possibly produces more torque over a greater rev range from maybe having a longer stroke.If so that would allow tracks to be prepared with a bit more dirt on them so it could be like turning the clock back to the Good Old Days. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piston197 Posted December 31, 2014 Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 Such is the nature of the beast, you are never going to win ! The junior Britain Kart class is governed in such a way that only stock engines can be used , no tuning parts etc, but I know a man who has been earning a good living by buying 20 engines at a time, stripping them and reassembling to blue printed tolerances by selecting parts from different engines, even fitting used pistons with carbon on the top will produce a small horsepower rise, The engines are then dyno tested and supplied to customers at a price significantly above the "stock " engine, when engines have just 1 BHP more it makes a significant difference in this low powered sport.. All engines are untuned , just assembled to get the best out of them with correctly toleranced parts to get the maximum out of them ! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynnboy Posted December 31, 2014 Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 Does anyone know if any top riders are going to be using the engine as sponsored riders? Be interesting to see if it's in the gp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Lee Posted December 31, 2014 Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 Just about every racing engine that comes out claims to be longer lasting and more economical, but it's not long before someone puts different parts in them or changes something that requires more frequent service intervals. Would seem a big if... Spot on. A few people have said it in different ways in this topic, but it doesn't matter where the engine comes from or how cheap it is to buy, riders will understandably tweak it to try & get an advantage, then the costs will spiral. The only way to cap costs is to have a standard engine with a ban on any mods (for league racing - you'd have to have more freedom for GP riders). Ideally, each track would have a stock of engines and they'd be allocated at random at the start of a meeting. Ideally.................was that a pig that just fluttered by? Happy new year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE DEAN MACHINE Posted December 31, 2014 Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 Such is the nature of the beast, you are never going to win ! The junior Britain Kart class is governed in such a way that only stock engines can be used , no tuning parts etc, but I know a man who has been earning a good living by buying 20 engines at a time, stripping them and reassembling to blue printed tolerances by selecting parts from different engines, even fitting used pistons with carbon on the top will produce a small horsepower rise, The engines are then dyno tested and supplied to customers at a price significantly above the "stock " engine, when engines have just 1 BHP more it makes a significant difference in this low powered sport.. All engines are untuned , just assembled to get the best out of them with correctly toleranced parts to get the maximum out of them ! while this is true at least it brings the gap a lot closer and brings the price down ,maybe you can only buy the engine through the SCB ? ,there will always be someone trying to get an advantage but it's an idea that is tried and tested in other motorsports why not ours Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theknow 2 Posted December 31, 2014 Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 Its not really the cost of the engine thats the problem, its tuning and service time that costs. Get a well designed modern engine which people can still tune but the cost of tuning and service will be far lower. If the basic design is good things like cams etc are not expensive to change to alter engine to riders liking. with a desent oil pump and circulation the parts will last far longer anyway. All this will reduce costs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Posted December 31, 2014 Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 Given that most seem to agree that the high revs on the start line are responsible for a lot of longevity problems what has happened to the rev limiter? Seemed like the riders that tested it had no issues and there is no doubt in my mind that it would help with reliability and be relatively cheap and easy to bring in and police. An improved oil system and a minimum stroke limit that did away with the extremely high revving engines around now would bring other benefits as well as increased reliability Before anybody says it I do understand about piston speed being increased along with stroke but just about every other component gets an easier life. In addition the longer stroke would do away with the need for very light flywheels giving bikes that handled deep dirt better and future proofing them against problems caused by inevitable decreases in future noise limits. While the idea of a single make engine is good I suspect the reality would be that Jawa (or whoever) would either or both reduce quality to meet a price or once there was no challenge to their monopoly increase prices. You can buy a brand new Chinese built pit bike engine that is reasonably competitive for under £400 but you will spend a lot of time replacing parts over a season. The parts are very cheap so that's fine if you do the work yourself and it's still cheap racing. However if you pay somebody else to work on your engine it would be much more cost effective to buy a more expensive better quality engine in the first place. Perhaps that is where the real savings are to be made by riders learning to do their own basic servicing and paying far less often for a full service. Personally I can't see any reason that a really well designed Speedway engine built with highest quality materials can't be made to run for 10 hours. A claiming rule for either complete bikes or engines would be the way to stop more expensive engines being further tuned. If this engine is £6000 then set a limit at £6500 and any race winner can have his engine claimed at the end of the meeting for that amount, even better if you do it with complete bikes because you could then restrict the amount spent on ancillaries as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long Eye Posted December 31, 2014 Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 Such is the nature of the beast, you are never going to win ! The junior Britain Kart class is governed in such a way that only stock engines can be used , no tuning parts etc, but I know a man who has been earning a good living by buying 20 engines at a time, stripping them and reassembling to blue printed tolerances by selecting parts from different engines, even fitting used pistons with carbon on the top will produce a small horsepower rise, The engines are then dyno tested and supplied to customers at a price significantly above the "stock " engine, when engines have just 1 BHP more it makes a significant difference in this low powered sport.. All engines are untuned , just assembled to get the best out of them with correctly toleranced parts to get the maximum out of them ! Helped out a Cadet karter a good few years ago. The standard Comer engine was 165 quid out of the box, no tuning just blue-printing allowed. An engine from John Button was 3k! Makes GMs from the top charging tuners look good value. British Championship rules at the time allowed for 2 engines to be registered per driver for the season. One father bought about a dozen race prepped ones, dyno tested the lot, registered the best 2, kept the next best 4 so no one else could have them and sold the rest on at a loss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE DEAN MACHINE Posted December 31, 2014 Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 (edited) Helped out a Cadet karter a good few years ago. The standard Comer engine was 165 quid out of the box, no tuning just blue-printing allowed. An engine from John Button was 3k! Makes GMs from the top charging tuners look good value. British Championship rules at the time allowed for 2 engines to be registered per driver for the season. One father bought about a dozen race prepped ones, dyno tested the lot, registered the best 2, kept the next best 4 so no one else could have them and sold the rest on at a loss. one difference with speedway though is its not always the one with the best bhp that wins ,because of its nature of wheelspin it about how much power you can get to the track and that unlike other motorsports . You get the highest bhp possible from a speedway engine put it on a slick track with no dirt and you will win nothing Edited December 31, 2014 by THE DEAN MACHINE 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piston197 Posted December 31, 2014 Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 one difference with speedway though is its not always the one with the best bhp that wins ,because of its nature of wheelspin it about how much power you can get to the track and that unlike other motorsports . You get the highest bhp possible from a speedway engine put it on a slick track with no dirt and you will win nothing Maybe similar to A drag racing B any tarmac racing where exit speed is needed out of the corner with max traction formula one etc ( god forbid someone tries to bring traction control into speedway with limited slip clutches and the like) If you have the horse power you can tame it, knock back timing, gearing etc to find the optimum setting If you do not have the BHP in the first place you are at a disadvantage, it is easier to make a fast engine slower than a slow engine faster ?? I believe ?? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE DEAN MACHINE Posted December 31, 2014 Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 (edited) Maybe similar to A drag racing B any tarmac racing where exit speed is needed out of the corner with max traction formula one etc no because after initial spin on drag racing 100% traction is gained in speedway it's never gained even on straight , the back wheel is always traveling faster than the bike ,unless on ice I don't think any other motor sport does this , this is proven when you loose control of a speedway bike you brain tell you to shut the throttle off but then for a second or so your wheelspin becomes your actual speed but that doesn't happen in other sports Edited December 31, 2014 by THE DEAN MACHINE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac101 Posted December 31, 2014 Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 Glasgow have ordered 14 (2 each) Money no object. Got that one wrong but Heard their buying them for wolbert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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