customhouseregular Posted December 16, 2014 Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 Poland and Denmark of course, but I'd put us 3rd/4th after Australia For me growing up, Denmark were always the best anyway, then Sweden, so nothing new Holder, Ward, Doyle and Batchelor would, in my opinion, outscore the GB top 4. It then depends upon the remaining 2/3 as to whether we outrank Australia. ...a match for Bryant & May to put into one of their matchboxes. That's a team for those who can't see beyond the end of next week. It's only my opinion, but I think we ought to realise that the team for the present won't win anything, so needs to be sidelined in favour of "fast tracking" the next generation. Yes we'll be beaten in everything that we enter for a couple of years, but our Chelsea Pensioner team gets handsomly beaten anyway. We need to build for 3 or 4 years down the road, and that process has to start somewhere. Once again...3 cheers for common sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weatherwatcher Posted December 16, 2014 Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 Without the input from the SCB/BSPA with the lack of doing anything to further our young riders in all the major world and European meetings, then the future of Great Britain having a team to go to the senior World cup in 3 to 4 years, will no longer be a option, because we will have no riders that have even competed at this level, all they are hoping on are the lads that are riding at FTR. They will not stand a cat in hells chance of getting into anything, other than a World championship for the worlds worst speedway team, which we are not so far from being now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnieg Posted December 16, 2014 Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 I think that the top 7 British riders would struggle in a "test match" against the top 7 Latvians. GB has 2 decent spearhead riders, but behind them likes so much either mediocrity and/or inexperience. Can't do anything about mediocrity but you can do something about inexperience. Problem is that SCB/BSPA refuse to do so. A bit of an exaggeration given that Latvia only have six professional speedway riders (three of whom are pretty underwhelming performers in Polish League One). Latvia's seventh best rider is probably Dave Krumis, a 16 year old kid who would probably be National League reserve standard. Latvia would be stronger in second/third heat leader positions and have performed incredibly well given their limited resources, but I do think you are over-egging your argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted December 16, 2014 Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 BEEN doing some research for a forthcoming Speedway Star feature and after his World Final win in 1985 Erik Gundersen offered to help bring along young English talent. Thirty years later he's still waiting ... He repeated his offer seven or eight years ago at a Dinner I attended. I expect he is still waiting for a Reply to that offer too.............................................. NOT exactly forward thinking are our Top Brass................................................ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uk_martin Posted December 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 A bit of an exaggeration given that Latvia only have six professional speedway riders (three of whom are pretty underwhelming performers in Polish League One). Latvia's seventh best rider is probably Dave Krumis, a 16 year old kid who would probably be National League reserve standard. Latvia would be stronger in second/third heat leader positions and have performed incredibly well given their limited resources, but I do think you are over-egging your argument. Tell you what... let's have a real test to find out...one meeting at a British track of the BSPA's choice, the next at Daugavpils. Aggregate scores decide. Bearing in mind that Daugavpils is the only real track in Latvia, they've done miracles to get the national team to where they are. They have one track, we have threee leagues full of tracks. We have lots of tracks up and down the country and yet none of them can boast the accomplishment of Daugavpils. He repeated his offer seven or eight years ago at a Dinner I attended. I expect he is still waiting for a Reply to that offer too.............................................. NOT exactly forward thinking are our Top Brass................................................ "Not invented here syndrome" all over again innit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnieg Posted December 17, 2014 Report Share Posted December 17, 2014 Tell you what... let's have a real test to find out...one meeting at a British track of the BSPA's choice, the next at Daugavpils. Aggregate scores decide. Are you sure? Latvia are weaker than Lokomotiv Daugavpils (basically the weakest three Latvians replaced by Schlein, Kylmakorpi and another) who are weaker than Doyle, Harris, Nicholls, Ljung, Bridger, Sowka, Gala (their collective Polish League 1 averages from last year are more than six points greater than those of Lokomotiv Daugavpils) who are (marginally) weaker than Woffinden, Harris, Nicholls, King, Bridger, Stead, Cook which looks remarkably close to 2014 Team GB's best line-up Bearing in mind that Daugavpils is the only real track in Latvia, they've done miracles to get the national team to where they are. They have one track, we have threee leagues full of tracks. We have lots of tracks up and down the country and yet none of them can boast the accomplishment of Daugavpils. "Not invented here syndrome" all over again innit? Agree wholeheartedly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uk_martin Posted December 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2014 Were you in Prague last year when the Latvians wiped the floor with Team GB in the SWC? Woffinden, Harris, Nicholls, King, Bridger, Stead, Cook Forget Nicholls - he'll never ride for Team GB again Forget Bridger - he's "on a gap year" and may or may not ever return. Forget Cook - he can't afford to travel to tracks to represent Team GB (or at least he couldn't when asked to ride in the GB v Australia Test series in 2013) Which leaves Tai plus some elderly gentlemen who are "iinconsistent" at best at international level Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spin king Posted December 24, 2014 Report Share Posted December 24, 2014 Who do you think will be in line for call ups to the national team this year? What do you feel will be their prospects at international level? For me two riders are obvious choices. Bear in mind that there are only 3 British riders who are likely to be exclusively EL in 2015, and out of them Scott Nicholls won't ride for Team GB again. So that leaves Chris Harris as the stand out rider from the EL for a place in the team. That leaves the other all-EL rider (at the moment) - Steve Worrall. He's inexperienced, but he's got the balls to commit to the EL full time, and he'll come good in the long run, so for that reason, I'd pick him. Tai Woffinden, despite not riding in Britain next year will be the other obvious choice for me. There are those who say that he's turned his back on his country, and others who want to say he's not really British anyway and all that...but that's all opinion. My opinion is that he's the best GB have and should be in. Greg Hancock doesn't ride in the USA and no-one complains about him wearing the stars and stripes, so if it's OK for the World Champion, it should be OK for the former World Champion. So that leaves the riders who've chosen to double up/down between the EL and PL. What to do for those? The obvious choice would be to pick from the "oldies" (King, Barker, Stead etc) but where will that get the GB team in the long run? And what will become of the career double-uppers (Barker etc) who could have kicked on if they's have got themselves experience in Sweden and Denmark but instead chose the comforts of home? What happens to them when their 2-year lease on a doubling up slot expires and they are 2 years older? Sadly I only see their fate sliding down hill and that their fate will be in the PL from 2017 onwards, so should Team GB pick riders whose career paths are on the slide? And especially, should team GB pick a rider who has just stated that his heart lies in Edinburgh and who in the past has turned his nose up at riding for GB in a domestic test series? So for me Craig Cook, Ben Barker, Simon Stead Danny King and for other reasons, Lewis Bridger are out of my equation. What to do with Richard Lawson? Not signed for an EL team yet and at 28 years old, is he the future? Should he be in the way of a youngster who is keen to get on with their career? Hard choice but I think his race is run in international terms. My picks for the remaining places will go to young chargers who seem keen to progress. I admit that it will be a steep learning curve, but they have to start at some time, and as Jason Garrity showed at the British Final in 2014, they are no respecters of reputations, so to quote Gunnery Sergeant Hartman in "Full Metal Jacket" - "they may be silly and they may be ignorant but they've got guts and guts is enough". As for their chances iin 2015. They'll not come 4th at Kings Lynn, so will progress to Vojens where they'll be knocked out of the play-offs. HOWEVER, some young riders will learn from the experience and that will bode well for the future. The team I'd chose (in no particular order): 1. Tai Woffinden 2. Chris Harris 3. Steve Worrall 4. Rob Lambert Reserve choices: 5. Ashley Birks 6. Jason Garrity 7. Richie Worrall 8. Kyle Newman I assume now that you will be dropping Steve Worrall from your team as he has signed to ride for Newcastle in the Premier League. Not the Full time Elite League rider that you jumped to the conclusion that you thought. Bit like popping the champagne corks before the season is over. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uk_martin Posted December 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2014 Rob Lambert and Steve Worrall have both now chosen to double/dumb up/down. So that leaves only two full time British riders in the British EL and one of those has retired from riding for Team GB again...so that leaves just Chris Harris. And the British Elite League is the weakest of the three main European "Elite" leagues at that. Does anyone think that is a situation to be proud of? Shoot me for telling it to you straight if you like, but that won't alter the facts as they stand. ONE full time British Rider in the British Elite League, able to represent his / our country. A total disgrace to the state of the sport in this country and a total humiliation to the governing body as far as I'm concerned. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted December 24, 2014 Report Share Posted December 24, 2014 Rob Lambert and Steve Worrall have both now chosen to double/dumb up/down. So that leaves only two full time British riders in the British EL and one of those has retired from riding for Team GB again...so that leaves just Chris Harris. And the British Elite League is the weakest of the three main European "Elite" leagues at that. Does anyone think that is a situation to be proud of? Shoot me for telling it to you straight if you like, but that won't alter the facts as they stand. ONE full time British Rider in the British Elite League, able to represent his / our country. A total disgrace to the state of the sport in this country and a total humiliation to the governing body as far as I'm concerned. I think you have a point actually - so - I won't be shooting you in this Season of goodwill. :) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spin king Posted December 24, 2014 Report Share Posted December 24, 2014 Rob Lambert and Steve Worrall have both now chosen to double/dumb up/down. So that leaves only two full time British riders in the British EL and one of those has retired from riding for Team GB again...so that leaves just Chris Harris. And the British Elite League is the weakest of the three main European "Elite" leagues at that. Does anyone think that is a situation to be proud of? Shoot me for telling it to you straight if you like, but that won't alter the facts as they stand. ONE full time British Rider in the British Elite League, able to represent his / our country. A total disgrace to the state of the sport in this country and a total humiliation to the governing body as far as I'm concerned. So don't have doubling up riders in any other leagues in other countries. I think you might just find that Sweden has doubling up/ doubling down. Admittedly no to the extent it is in this country, but still have it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weatherwatcher Posted December 24, 2014 Report Share Posted December 24, 2014 (edited) We don't have a team that is capable of representing the British Isles and yes as stated above it is all down to the powers that be, in failing to bring on and talent in this country for the past 15 years or more. It is now time for them to all step aside and let someone who has the interest of this counties speedway more closer to their hearts and not their pockets. Because it all boils down to the fact that no one in this country that has anything to do with running or promoting the sport has the guts to stand by their larels and give the young British riders a chance in the top flight of speedway. We had 6 or 7 FTR that proved they could hold their own in the EL, but still the promoters had not got the guts to offer these riders a full team place, yet they can bring in Young Polish, Danes and Aussies and give them a go, When all they can do for the lads that shoed they could do it this year is to give them a slap in the face and make them spend another year as FTR, it just shows yoy their mentality For to long now they have been bringing in overseas riders to fill the team slots whilst or own lads have had to struggle on the NL and Pl with no chances given them to strike out in the EL and bring their own British talent along. So now that it comes to push and shove we are left with very little in the way of any riders for the next few years to make up a team to go and ride against the best in the world. Shame on you all you should have done better. You can't blame the riders, we know there is the talent out there, so why hold them back. All they can do is forget what we have had before and put 4 new faces in the team and give them a go at world level, they may not win, but at least they will get the chance to ride at that level, Because where we are now. We can't even compete at world pairs or singles let alone find enough riders to make ateam of 4 with reserves. And it has been this way for the last 15 years or so now, using the same riders that have never been world class and still sticking with the same old names. Once we had a proud hertitage of riders who where the best in the world, they let it all slip from their grasp through sheer greed and the want of winning the EL title and paly off year in year out in front of the Sky tv and now even they have almost had enough of the sport.. Edited December 24, 2014 by weatherwatcher 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny the spud Posted December 25, 2014 Report Share Posted December 25, 2014 We don't have a team that is capable of representing the British Isles and yes as stated above it is all down to the powers that be, in failing to bring on and talent in this country for the past 15 years or more. It is now time for them to all step aside and let someone who has the interest of this counties speedway more closer to their hearts and not their pockets. Because it all boils down to the fact that no one in this country that has anything to do with running or promoting the sport has the guts to stand by their larels and give the young British riders a chance in the top flight of speedway. We had 6 or 7 FTR that proved they could hold their own in the EL, but still the promoters had not got the guts to offer these riders a full team place, yet they can bring in Young Polish, Danes and Aussies and give them a go, When all they can do for the lads that shoed they could do it this year is to give them a slap in the face and make them spend another year as FTR, it just shows yoy their mentality For to long now they have been bringing in overseas riders to fill the team slots whilst or own lads have had to struggle on the NL and Pl with no chances given them to strike out in the EL and bring their own British talent along. So now that it comes to push and shove we are left with very little in the way of any riders for the next few years to make up a team to go and ride against the best in the world. Shame on you all you should have done better. You can't blame the riders, we know there is the talent out there, so why hold them back. All they can do is forget what we have had before and put 4 new faces in the team and give them a go at world level, they may not win, but at least they will get the chance to ride at that level, Because where we are now. We can't even compete at world pairs or singles let alone find enough riders to make ateam of 4 with reserves. And it has been this way for the last 15 years or so now, using the same riders that have never been world class and still sticking with the same old names. Once we had a proud hertitage of riders who where the best in the world, they let it all slip from their grasp through sheer greed and the want of winning the EL title and paly off year in year out in front of the Sky tv and now even they have almost had enough of the sport.. this x 1000 I find it amazing that sponsors seem to be able to be "found" for foreign riders who basically steal places from British riders. There have been a few FT riders this year who should be in the main body and some who really would benefit from another year in the scheme. Meanwhile foreign riders are being "given the chance", sponsors found to help pay for good equipment, and the Brits are being left behind whilst at the same time being told they're not good enough. As a parent of a FTR it pi$$es me of to see all the names of british companies on foreign riders suits when there's no effort from the powers that be to direct some of this funding / help to young British riders. They grab the glory of a British world champ while doing nothing to help the guys on the bottom of the ladder . rant over 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted December 25, 2014 Report Share Posted December 25, 2014 (edited) John davis for Penelope pitstop I assume now that you will be dropping Steve Worrall from your team as he has signed to ride for Newcastle in the Premier League. Not the Full time Elite League rider that you jumped to the conclusion that you thought. Bit like popping the champagne corks before the season is over. None of those reserve choices that UK Martin has suggested are good anough,Lawson forget his age would get the nod over those four all night long was John Louis at 28/29 to old to ride for England.? this x 1000 I find it amazing that sponsors seem to be able to be "found" for foreign riders who basically steal places from British riders. There have been a few FT riders this year who should be in the main body and some who really would benefit from another year in the scheme. Meanwhile foreign riders are being "given the chance", sponsors found to help pay for good equipment, and the Brits are being left behind whilst at the same time being told they're not good enough. As a parent of a FTR it pi$$es me of to see all the names of british companies on foreign riders suits when there's no effort from the powers that be to direct some of this funding / help to young British riders. They grab the glory of a British world champ while doing nothing to help the guys on the bottom of the ladder . rant over I agree totally no help for the young uns,no long term vision year after year just plodding along. Edited December 25, 2014 by sidney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiegal Posted December 25, 2014 Report Share Posted December 25, 2014 Don't think for 1 minute this is new.....for YEARS we have had riders who spout "I want to ride for England/GB" who were teh worst examples of money orientation....Only interested in teh money available..turning up with not even 2nd rate bikes..arriving late...complaining throughout about the money. The list contains many major names, who caused many a sleepless night for teh Manager..who invariably got stick for not producing. Sweden early 1980's went back to basics with home grown youngsters...England is now at last on that route.....it won't be cured in 1 to 5 years but it will come good as long as the BSPA keeps faith with the "Feeder leagues".....the money from Sky has been spent on keeping tracks afloat...a double edged sword...if you have no tracks you have no sport. If you have a strong National Side it creates interest..see Cricket/hockey/bike road racing...etc..etc. It does need vision, but most of all it needs courage.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weatherwatcher Posted December 25, 2014 Report Share Posted December 25, 2014 It just needs them to come to their senses. They have left it far to late now to be able to even track a side of riders that are now world class. If they don't help the young riders now to become the future riders of a British team, they they might has well just forget even putting a team together, because without a lot of help and a lot of money spent to help them get top rate bikes and machanics as is the case we have now, they may has well cancel putting at British team out this coming year and for the unfor told future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uk_martin Posted December 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 27, 2014 None of those reserve choices that UK Martin has suggested are good enough.. Don't think for 1 minute this is new.....for YEARS we have had riders who spout "I want to ride for England/GB" who were teh worst examples of money orientation....Only interested in teh money available..turning up with not even 2nd rate bikes..arriving late...complaining throughout about the money... It just needs them to come to their senses. They have left it far to late now to be able to even track a side of riders that are now world class... this x 1000 OK, so now back to the theme of the thread. If YOU were tasked with picking a GB team / squad for next season, who'd be in it? Fantasy Speedway if you like, but don't just criticise other people's selections, that's easy. Let's see your picks as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phillipsr Posted December 27, 2014 Report Share Posted December 27, 2014 At kings Lynn Tai Woffinden Robert Lambert Chris Harris Daniel King Or build for the future Tai Woffinden Rob Lambert Jason Garrity Kyle Howarth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weatherwatcher Posted December 27, 2014 Report Share Posted December 27, 2014 Garrity Newman Howerth R Lambert. Give the lads a go may no win anything but at lest it would give them a chance to see how well they could do. Also to work at building up their ideals of what they really are aiming for in 2 or 3 years time. Don't lets stick with the old guns that have been riding for their country year in year out and just plodding along at their worst, because half of them or more have never been world class riders or are now past their sell by date. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattK Posted December 27, 2014 Report Share Posted December 27, 2014 The World Cup is not the right place to give young riders "a go". You should field your strongest four. If the likes of Garrity, Newman etc. want experience racing against the best in the world, then let them find a place in the Swedish and Polish leagues, race in World and Team U21s and get their experience the same way young foreign riders do. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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