BWitcher Posted December 31, 2014 Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 They might all have lovely race suits to suit now, but go back to the 60s and 70s they certainly had more TEAM players riders who team rode and were proper team men today is not the same. I agree with you there Sidney, although you don't have to go back that far for that. I may have been fortunate growing up watching the Sam Ermolenko led Wolves teams, which were very much teams. Sams team riding was second to none. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted December 31, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 I agree with you there Sidney, although you don't have to go back that far for that. I may have been fortunate growing up watching the Sam Ermolenko led Wolves teams, which were very much teams. Sams team riding was second to none. He did improve after his initial few meeting's at Poole remember seeing him ride with Lee,was hairy to say the least all over the shop had a great career can't knock him for that though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted January 1, 2015 Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 (edited) Yeah because most team sports have players in random colored outfits don't they. That is one area where speedway HAS progressed for the better. Is there a professional team sport, other than speedway, where the members of a team don't wear the same strip/uniform etc? No - but Speedway is different - it is all about spectacle - different coloured Leathers added to the Sport. Team Suits are boring. I also liked the old 'Racejackets' better too - at least you didn't struggle, as a newcomer, to see who rode for who. Nowadays you have to search through all of the advertisements. They might all have lovely race suits to suit now, but go back to the 60s and 70s they certainly had more TEAM players riders who team rode and were proper team men today is not the same. SPOT ON!!! sidney. Edited January 1, 2015 by The White Knight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 No - but Speedway is different - it is all about spectacle - different coloured Leathers added to the Sport. Team Suits are boring. I also liked the old 'Racejackets' better too - at least you didn't struggle, as a newcomer, to see who rode for who. Nowadays you have to search through all of the advertisements. SPOT ON!!! sidney. Sadly WK, it's folk like yourself who are one of the main reasons the sport is in the mess it is in now in this country. Stuck in the past and NEVER changed. You can continue to harp back all you like to the days before team leathers etc.. yet you seem to forget the majority of the sports fans abandoned it long before any of the things you love from back in the day were changed... Why did they do that? Quite simple, the sport didn't adapt, it kept serving up the same old, same old and the majority got tired of it and moved on to something else that was adapting with the times. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted January 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 Sadly WK, it's folk like yourself who are one of the main reasons the sport is in the mess it is in now in this country. Stuck in the past and NEVER changed. You can continue to harp back all you like to the days before team leathers etc.. yet you seem to forget the majority of the sports fans abandoned it long before any of the things you love from back in the day were changed... Why did they do that? Quite simple, the sport didn't adapt, it kept serving up the same old, same old and the majority got tired of it and moved on to something else that was adapting with the times. Up until Penhall retired thing's were reasonable,you are saying some of us are in a time warp BUT do you realise alot of tracks do not own there stadiums!? Why would they pay out money sprucing thing's up trying different thing's for what? a different generation why not do what you know best go from year to year if you don't own a stadium why bother?.That is why King's Lynn are a unique club they are in charge of there own destiny through a great promotion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 Sadly WK, it's folk like yourself who are one of the main reasons the sport is in the mess it is in now in this country. Stuck in the past and NEVER changed. You can continue to harp back all you like to the days before team leathers etc.. yet you seem to forget the majority of the sports fans abandoned it long before any of the things you love from back in the day were changed... Why did they do that? Quite simple, the sport didn't adapt, it kept serving up the same old, same old and the majority got tired of it and moved on to something else that was adapting with the times. No they didn't. OR - the argument could be put from the other viewpoint. Crowds started dropping when a lot of this newfangled rubbish came in to the Sport. Think about it!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 The sport was definitely in decline in the 80s, which was prior to sky, play offs, double point rides, gps, lay downs, team suits etc. what new fangled rubbish are u referring to twk? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 The sport was definitely in decline in the 80s, which was prior to sky, play offs, double point rides, gps, lay downs, team suits etc. what new fangled rubbish are u referring to twk? But I thought all of this rubbish, including the GPs was meant to make Speedway more popular. That worked well - didn't it? Those things are largely responsible for increasing COSTS and driving even more people away from Speedway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 Surely only lay downs of those have increased costs? doublepoint rides were brought in to reduce costs. cant think of any of the above that have driven people sway from the sport - except perhaps yoursrlf twk. Even then - if all other aspectspwere great, would u have quit over double points? speedways issue isn't that it's changed too much, but that its changed too little and too late - it hasnt adapted to changing customer demand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 No they didn't. OR - the argument could be put from the other viewpoint. Crowds started dropping when a lot of this newfangled rubbish came in to the Sport. Think about it!! Yes they did. That is an undisputable fact once again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatface Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 (edited) The sport was definitely in decline in the 80s, which was prior to sky, play offs, double point rides, gps, lay downs, team suits etc. what new fangled rubbish are u referring to twk? Find myself nodding to a lot of your posts. The sport definitely started to go downhill in the 1980s. There was a real noticable difference from 1980 to 1989. At the start of the decade we had household names, we were still probably the UK's second largest spectator sport and were on terrestrial TV on a semi-regular basis. By 89 our World Champion was anonymous, crowds had seriously declined and even the World Final was not on TV. All of this is way before Sky, play-offs, GPs and all the rest that others like to point to the sport's decline. I actually think some of the developments have slowed the decline. Had it carried on declining in the same pace it did in the 1980s this whole forum would be in the 'Years Gone By' section now! Why has our sport declined so? Well, your could write a book on it to be honest. It's not team race suits or double points or tiny details like that. Broadly speaking society has changed and speedway hasn't changed quickly enough with it. A lot of other live sport used to be pretty rubbish 30 years ago. Tomorrow I'm off to report on a Rugby Premiership Game and I know it will be a brilliantly presented day out with a full crowd, excellent facilties, great entertainment before and after the game, comfortable bars and - most likely - a great game too. At domestic level, it's light years ahead of where it was 30 years ago. You cannot say that for speedway. Edited January 2, 2015 by falcace 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted January 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 Yes they did. That is an undisputable fact once again.Fact you love the word but never back it up.! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 Fact you love the word but never back it up.! I don't need to Sidney, you've backed it up for me.. Unless you have been making it up that crowds were a lot bigger in 1979 than 1989??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salty Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 I agree a lot with what Falcace says a couple of posts above. The decline begain in the early 80's long before the innovations TWK talks about were introduced. Quite simply the product provided in the UK is not attractive enough to persuade enough people to part with their money to attend it. Last time I attended a British meeting the racing was average at best, the length of time it took to run the meeting was ridiculous, the presentation was poor, the facilities were squalid and the food and drink was awful and over priced. Two weeks ago I watched an elite league Ice Hockey match. The action was good with a great climax to the match, the facilities were first class with a good choice of food and drink (albeit pricey), the presentation was superb with loads of extra activities to keep the crowd entertained and generated a superb atmosphere. A brilliant night and we will definitely be back. In short, Speedway lost out on every level. If Speedway is to have a long term future I firmly believe it needs drastic surgery and must cut its costs to make it viable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 Agree with your post salty, apart from the last sentence. Speedway needs to offer value for money compared with rival options, this may actuslly mean spending more (be it on narketing, entertainment, facilities, track prep etc.) In order to provide a product which people will spend the better part of twenty quid on and feel they got their moneys worth. out of interest, how much was tge ice hockey? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 Spot on waiheke. When is the penny going to drop... Year after year of cost cutting has resulted in year after year of declining attendances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 But I thought all of this rubbish, including the GPs was meant to make Speedway more popular. That worked well - didn't it? Those things are largely responsible for increasing COSTS and driving even more people away from Speedway. In 1980 there were 17 bl teams. In 1990 there were nine. In 2014 there were 10.Would you suggest that indicates the decline starting before or after sky got involved with the sport and playoffs were introduced.? The attendance at the odsal world finals in 85 and 90 were in the 30000s. Britsin hosted three world finals of the last fifteen. In comparison Cardiff attracts around 45k EVERY year. Would you suggest this indicates the decline of british speedway started before or sfter the gps? Would suggest to me the chsnges have actually slowed or even reversed the decline. The play offs I believe are the most attended domestic meetings of the season - suggest this indicates they have helped the sport. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HenryW Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 The play offs I believe are the most attended domestic meetings of the season - suggest this indicates they have helped the sport.Whilst I agree with most of what you said, this last statement is a little more difficult to be so clear on. I like the play-offs but the impact on crowds overall is quite difficult to judge. For some teams at the top, meetings that would previously have been critical for the title chase become meaningless little fillers whilst they wait for the play-offs to start. Having said that, the fact that teams lower down the league continue to have something to race for late into the season probably more than makes up for this but as I say, it's hard to judge the overall impact on attendance across the entire league season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 I agree henry w, it's impossible to definitively prove the impact of play offs on attendances. However, under the play off system there are significantly more "meaningful" fixtures. Previously by the half way stage of tge season normally only two or three teams had any hope of being champions. You'd have to assume that at least has a "neutral" impact on regular season matches, with an uplift then for the play offs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyMac Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 (edited) Thankfully, I remember when the team that finished top of the league was the best, were accordingly crowned as champions, and the team that finished bottom was the worst. It was a time when the general public widely accepted these routine issues as a simple fact of life and didn't need to be mollycoddled into thinking that their particular favourite team could somehow be transformed from also-rans into potential winners, without the need for counselling. I guess we must ultimately blame Sky for this change of attitude. By artificially contriving an exciting finale, the play-offs have become good box office and usually generate excitement for both the live and TV audience. But do two or three end-of-season meetings really make a season? Why can't people these days accept that finishing 2nd (or 10th) in the final league table isn't actually the end of the world? After all, it's only sport. There's always next year.... Anyway, I thought the Kenny Carter DVD wasn't bad. Edited January 4, 2015 by tmc 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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