Kenny Carter Dvd.

[waiheke1]

I don't think you can blame/credit sky exclusively for play offs. I would imagine the promoters are keen on them too.

most major sports use them.

football is the only exception I can think of, but there u have european football toplay for and relegation to avoid, so there is plenty to play for in addition to the title.

[salty]

Agree with your post salty, apart from the last sentence. Speedway needs to offer value for money compared with rival options, this may actuslly mean spending more (be it on narketing, entertainment, facilities, track prep etc.) In order to provide a product which people will spend the better part of twenty quid on and feel they got their moneys worth.

out of interest, how much was tge ice hockey?

 

They were comps, but my eldest boy (who has no interest in going to any other sporting event) loved it so much we bought tickets for last night's match against Sheffield. 15 quid for adult, 8 for the kids. Was another great night - crowd was 5 1/2 thousand, which isn't too shabby.

 

Spot on waiheke.

 

When is the penny going to drop... Year after year of cost cutting has resulted in year after year of declining attendances.

My point of cost cutting was directed more to the costs of machinery and the kit. Because they have spiralled over the years then the sport (in the UK) has had to cut costs elsewhere.

[The White Knight]

Thankfully, I remember when the team that finished top of the league was the best, were accordingly crowned as champions, and the team that finished bottom was the worst.

 

It was a time when the general public widely accepted these routine issues as a simple fact of life and didn't need to be mollycoddled into thinking that their particular favourite team could somehow be transformed from also-rans into potential winners, without the need for counselling.

 

I guess we must ultimately blame Sky for this change of attitude. By artificially contriving an exciting finale, the play-offs have become good box office and usually generate excitement for both the live and TV audience. But do two or three end-of-season meetings really make a season?

 

Why can't people these days accept that finishing 2nd (or 10th) in the final league table isn't actually the end of the world?

 

After all, it's only sport.

 

There's always next year....

 

Anyway, I thought the Kenny Carter DVD wasn't bad.

I absolutely agree 100% with those comments.

 

Well said.

[fatface]

Thankfully, I remember when the team that finished top of the league was the best, were accordingly crowned as champions, and the team that finished bottom was the worst.

 

It was a time when the general public widely accepted these routine issues as a simple fact of life and didn't need to be mollycoddled into thinking that their particular favourite team could somehow be transformed from also-rans into potential winners, without the need for counselling.

 

I guess we must ultimately blame Sky for this change of attitude. By artificially contriving an exciting finale, the play-offs have become good box office and usually generate excitement for both the live and TV audience. But do two or three end-of-season meetings really make a season?

 

Why can't people these days accept that finishing 2nd (or 10th) in the final league table isn't actually the end of the world?

 

After all, it's only sport.

 

There's always next year....

 

Anyway, I thought the Kenny Carter DVD wasn't bad.

The thing is though Tony, it is 2015 not 1975. Whilst I believe there is plenty speedway can learn from the past, there are also innovations like the play-offs and the GPs where speedway has kept pace with changing times and the changing demands of consumers - sorry to drop into marketing-speak.

 

But sport is a business and speedway has to compete for business like every other sport. It's far more competitive that it has ever been. Football was always the UK's biggest sport, but it is now bigger than ever before and shows no signs of its saturation drying up. So speedway has to fight hard with sports like cricket, rugby league, rugby union, basketball and ice hockey for attention. All of these sports use play-offs and any sport that doesn't deliver exciting league competitions every year will simply drop off the radar for a public who - to be frank - has a shorter attention-span with a wider choice than ever before of sporting pleasures.

 

It's noticable that the major competitions that have evolved like the UEFA Champions League, Aviva Premiership, Rugby League Grand Final, Twenty20 Cricket are major successes of recent years. The ones that haven't changed like the FA Cup and Cricket County Championship have regressed.

 

I like to get as nostalgic as the next guy about speedway in the 1980s. But you have to be really honest, if we did go back to a 13 heat formula, straight league without play-offs and re-introduced the old World Final with Intercontinental, Overseas and other qualifiers, would the crowds come flocking back? Would we get better TV coverage? Would sponsors be interested?

Edited January 7, 2015 by falcace

[customhouseregular]

The thing is though Tony, it is 2015 not 1975. Whilst I believe there is plenty speedway can learn from the past, there are also innovations like the play-offs and the GPs where speedway has kept pace with changing times and the changing demands of consumers - sorry to drop into marketing-speak.

 

But sport is a business and speedway has to compete for business like every other sport. It's far more competitive that it has ever been. Football was always the UK's biggest sport, but it is now bigger than ever before and shows no signs of its saturation drying up. So speedway has to fight hard with sports like cricket, rugby league, rugby union, basketball and ice hockey for attention. All of these sports use play-offs and any sport that doesn't deliver exciting league competitions every year will simply drop off the radar for a public who - to be frank - has a shorter attention-span with a wider choice than ever before of sporting pleasures.

 

It's noticable that the major competitions that have evolved like the UEFA Champions League, Aviva Premiership, Rugby League Grand Final, Twenty20 Cricket are major successes of recent years. The ones that haven't changed like the FA Cup and Cricket County Championship have regressed.

 

I like to get as nostalgic as the next guy about speedway in the 1980s. But you have to be really honest, if we did go back to a 13 heat formula, straight league without play-offs and re-introduced the old World Final with Intercontinental, Overseas and other qualifiers, would the crowds come flocking back? Would we get better TV coverage? Would sponsors be interested?

Would the crowds come flocking back...I don't know but the crowds are not there now with all the changes to entice them. What is the average gate for an EL meeting and a PL meeting. Why, if the GP is the way forward does Cardiff only attract 40,000, or there abouts. Speedway has evolved but the gates are down. TV coverage is great, particularly for people like me but it is not encouraging new people to watch speedway live. Yes, sports that have not changed may have regressed, but speedway has changed and has still regressed. British speedway has to have regressed if the reigning world champion, the previous year's world champion and half of the world.s top riders shun our league.

[BWitcher]

Would the crowds come flocking back...I don't know but the crowds are not there now with all the changes to entice them. What is the average gate for an EL meeting and a PL meeting. Why, if the GP is the way forward does Cardiff only attract 40,000, or there abouts. Speedway has evolved but the gates are down. TV coverage is great, particularly for people like me but it is not encouraging new people to watch speedway live. Yes, sports that have not changed may have regressed, but speedway has changed and has still regressed. British speedway has to have regressed if the reigning world champion, the previous year's world champion and half of the world.s top riders shun our league.

 

A flawed answer.

 

Ask yourself how many fans the sport had lost BEFORE any changes were made.

 

The reality with speedway is, in the UK especially, it hasn't changed enough.

Edited January 7, 2015 by BWitcher

[customhouseregular]

We could go round and round for quite a while. Truth is there is merit in both our arguments. It is hard to deny though That the changes have not reversed the decline of the late80's/early 90's.

[fatface]

Why, if the GP is the way forward does Cardiff only attract 40,000, or there abouts?

If I told you in 1995 that you would have been able to ask that question in 2015, you would have been astonished.

 

It's indisputable that the sport has declined. We all agree on that. But it aint down to the play-offs or the GPs. I would argue the play-offs have slowed the decline of league speedway (many other factors have contributed to its overall decline, in which I give my thoughts on other threads in EL section). I would also argue that the GPs have reversed the decline of our World Championship, which was confined to Vojens, Pocking, Bradford, Amsterdam and the like.

[The White Knight]

The thing is though Tony, it is 2015 not 1975. Whilst I believe there is plenty speedway can learn from the past, there are also innovations like the play-offs and the GPs where speedway has kept pace with changing times and the changing demands of consumers - sorry to drop into marketing-speak.

 

But sport is a business and speedway has to compete for business like every other sport. It's far more competitive that it has ever been. Football was always the UK's biggest sport, but it is now bigger than ever before and shows no signs of its saturation drying up. So speedway has to fight hard with sports like cricket, rugby league, rugby union, basketball and ice hockey for attention. All of these sports use play-offs and any sport that doesn't deliver exciting league competitions every year will simply drop off the radar for a public who - to be frank - has a shorter attention-span with a wider choice than ever before of sporting pleasures.

 

It's noticable that the major competitions that have evolved like the UEFA Champions League, Aviva Premiership, Rugby League Grand Final, Twenty20 Cricket are major successes of recent years. The ones that haven't changed like the FA Cup and Cricket County Championship have regressed.

 

I like to get as nostalgic as the next guy about speedway in the 1980s. But you have to be really honest, if we did go back to a 13 heat formula, straight league without play-offs and re-introduced the old World Final with Intercontinental, Overseas and other qualifiers, would the crowds come flocking back? Would we get better TV coverage? Would sponsors be interested?

Probably not. once you have lost Supporters and Sponsors it is very, very difficult to get them back. But there is no way that the so called modernization of Speedway can be hailed as a success, sadly, because the regression continues Season on Season.

 

Also - at least British Speedway picked up some revenue (badly needed nowadays) from the old World Final - as far as I understand it gets bugger all from BSI for the GPs. That is, at least in part, where the rot started.

[BWitcher]

Probably not. once you have lost Supporters and Sponsors it is very, very difficult to get them back. But there is no way that the so called modernization of Speedway can be hailed as a success, sadly, because the regression continues Season on Season.

 

Also - at least British Speedway picked up some revenue (badly needed nowadays) from the old World Final - as far as I understand it gets bugger all from BSI for the GPs. That is, at least in part, where the rot started.

 

You are rewriting history again WK.

 

The rot had started a LONG time before the GP's started.

[The White Knight]

 

You are rewriting history again WK.

 

The rot had started a LONG time before the GP's started.

That's true actually - but crucially - BSI/GP Series certainly sped things up.

[fatface]

Also - at least British Speedway picked up some revenue (badly needed nowadays) from the old World Final - as far as I understand it gets bugger all from BSI for the GPs. That is, at least in part, where the rot started.

BSI only took over the commercial rights of the GPs in 2000. I believe from 1995-1999, the BSPA organised the British GP and showcased our sport at Bradford, Coventry and Hackney. Actually that is commercially more lucrative than one World Final at Bradford every five years. Don't know about you, but I don't recall this as a particularly golden era where the funds flooded to the development of British Speedway. Do you? The BSPA didn't have the vision/acumen/balls (call it what you will) to stage a World Championship event on a grand stage like the Millennium Stadium. Like them or not, BSI did.

That's true actually - but crucially - BSI/GP Series certainly sped things up.

Not true.

Don't know about you, but I attended a fair few World Championship meetings in the early 1990s. I went to British and Overseas Finals at Coventry, a World Semi at Bradford and World Finals at Bradford and Wroclaw. Problem is, only about 5k came to any of those qualifiers and about 20k to those finals. They were also tucked away on satellite TV when hardly anyone had it. I was in the hard core. But the World Championship was clearly struggling. I saw it with my own eyes. I've been to a few Grand Prix events in recent years and some of them - particularly in Torun and Cardiff - are miles and miles better than the World Championship events under the old format in the 1990s. Thousands must agree as they also attract much bigger crowds.

Edited January 7, 2015 by falcace

[BWitcher]

That's true actually - but crucially - BSI/GP Series certainly sped things up.

 

Nope, the BSPA's continuing reluctance to move with the times sped things up.

[waiheke1]

That's true actually - but crucially - BSI/GP Series certainly sped things up.

really? I notice you havent responded to my early query about how the 45000 that attend cardiff each year vs the thirty something thousand that attended the odsal world final supports this claim?

Or how the british league went from 17 teams in 1980 to 9 teams on 1990, but in 2014 the el started with ten teams?

[TonyMac]

The thing is though Tony, it is 2015 not 1975. Whilst I believe there is plenty speedway can learn from the past, there are also innovations like the play-offs and the GPs where speedway has kept pace with changing times and the changing demands of consumers - sorry to drop into marketing-speak.

 

But sport is a business and speedway has to compete for business like every other sport. It's far more competitive that it has ever been. Football was always the UK's biggest sport, but it is now bigger than ever before and shows no signs of its saturation drying up. So speedway has to fight hard with sports like cricket, rugby league, rugby union, basketball and ice hockey for attention. All of these sports use play-offs and any sport that doesn't deliver exciting league competitions every year will simply drop off the radar for a public who - to be frank - has a shorter attention-span with a wider choice than ever before of sporting pleasures.

 

It's noticable that the major competitions that have evolved like the UEFA Champions League, Aviva Premiership, Rugby League Grand Final, Twenty20 Cricket are major successes of recent years. The ones that haven't changed like the FA Cup and Cricket County Championship have regressed.

 

I like to get as nostalgic as the next guy about speedway in the 1980s. But you have to be really honest, if we did go back to a 13 heat formula, straight league without play-offs and re-introduced the old World Final with Intercontinental, Overseas and other qualifiers, would the crowds come flocking back? Would we get better TV coverage? Would sponsors be interested?

You are right in all that you say - I was just looking at the past through rose-tinted glasses, as I often do when reflecting on all sports.

[The White Knight]

really? I notice you havent responded to my early query about how the 45000 that attend cardiff each year vs the thirty something thousand that attended the odsal world final supports this claim?

Or how the british league went from 17 teams in 1980 to 9 teams on 1990, but in 2014 the el started with ten teams?

80,000 plus at Wembley.

 

Same thing happened in the Fifties and early Sixties. What does that prove.

[waiheke1]

You have proved that the decline happened before the gps started, and that gps have slowed/reversed the decline.

[The White Knight]

You have proved that the decline happened before the gps started, and that gps have slowed/reversed the decline.

No I haven't - at times Speedway, for some reason does go in to decline. However there is no way you can say that the GPs have slowed or reversed the decline. What they have done is to be, to a large extent, responsible for the really TOP Riders not racing here in Great Britain any more. As the top Riders have left, so crowds have dropped - it isn't rocket science. Now we are down to the hard core older demographic Supporters, like myself, who will continue to support the Sport until they 'die off'. With very few young Supporters coming along - Speedway will eventually do the same in this Country.

 

So there you are - you are working from a false premise.

[BWitcher]

80,000 plus at Wembley.

 

Same thing happened in the Fifties and early Sixties. What does that prove.

 

That you are wrong

No I haven't - at times Speedway, for some reason does go in to decline. However there is no way you can say that the GPs have slowed or reversed the decline. What they have done is to be, to a large extent, responsible for the really TOP Riders not racing here in Great Britain any more. As the top Riders have left, so crowds have dropped - it isn't rocket science. Now we are down to the hard core older demographic Supporters, like myself, who will continue to support the Sport until they 'die off'. With very few young Supporters coming along - Speedway will eventually do the same in this Country.

 

So there you are - you are working from a false premise.

 

Wrong again.

 

The crowds dropped massively BEFORE the GP's. BEFORE any top riders left.

 

The top riders have left because Britiain still operates using an antiquated schedule and has failed to move with the times.

[The White Knight]

 

That you are wrong

 

Wrong again.

 

The crowds dropped massively BEFORE the GP's. BEFORE any top riders left.

 

The top riders have left because Britiain still operates using an antiquated schedule and has failed to move with the times.

We must agree to differ BW.