Suggested One-off World Final Return

[customhouseregular]

I appreciate I am an old "stick in the mud" but using the principle..."If it aint broke don't fix it", we should never have moved from the pre 1995 system. It worked.

Wembley 1981...92,000, Cardiff 2014...45,000(ish).

Terenzano had a capacity of 4,000 but staged GP rounds.

Back in the day every track staged qualifying rounds...they were well attended.

In Britain we had the British Final then maybe the Nordic British or European etc. all of which drew good crowds.

I wager a Wembley Final was better anticipated than most GP rounds.

Riders from every country that staged competitive speedway entered the competition so why should it be different now?.

OK..different eras I know but as I have said before, My last World Final was Wembley 1981 and my first GP was Cardiff 2014. I know which was better but honestly, are the powers that be ever going to sanction a return to the old format!.

It is worth remembering that post 1995 unless one travels abroad, we get to see so many GP riders maybe once a year. Pre 1995 we could maybe see top riders in WC rounds, Tests, International open meetings etc.. In Britain we are now starved of top-level speedway which is contributing to the sport's decline.

One can not live in the past but one can learn from it.

[The White Knight]

I appreciate I am an old "stick in the mud" but using the principle..."If it aint broke don't fix it", we should never have moved from the pre 1995 system. It worked.

Wembley 1981...92,000, Cardiff 2014...45,000(ish).

Terenzano had a capacity of 4,000 but staged GP rounds.

Back in the day every track staged qualifying rounds...they were well attended.

In Britain we had the British Final then maybe the Nordic British or European etc. all of which drew good crowds.

I wager a Wembley Final was better anticipated than most GP rounds.

Riders from every country that staged competitive speedway entered the competition so why should it be different now?.

OK..different eras I know but as I have said before, My last World Final was Wembley 1981 and my first GP was Cardiff 2014. I know which was better but honestly, are the powers that be ever going to sanction a return to the old format!.

It is worth remembering that post 1995 unless one travels abroad, we get to see so many GP riders maybe once a year. Pre 1995 we could maybe see top riders in WC rounds, Tests, International open meetings etc.. In Britain we are now starved of top-level speedway which is contributing to the sport's decline.

One can not live in the past but one can learn from it.

In the days of the 'one off' World Final - we did not have an outside Company taking all of the money out of British Speedway either.

[MattK]

How many more would have done so - had they had the chance of qualifying?

 

The truth is that nowadays the vast majority of Speedway Riders are denied the chance to be top of the tree in their chosen Sport because of the Selection System used in the GP Series.

 

Which riders precisely haven't had the chance to qualify?

 

All these British riders were in the GP Challenge for the 2015 GPs:

 

Craig Cook

Lewis Bridger

Chris Harris

Richard Lawson

Kyle Howarth

Daniel King

Richie Worrall

[Guest]

This is an interesting thread but I just wonder: would other countries want to change the world championship qualifying format?

Edited December 31, 2014 by Guest

[Parsloes 1928 nearly]

Ain't gonna happen-I loved the one-off World Final, crazy results because of home track advantage and also it got degraded in later years e.g. Jerzy Szczakiel as World Champ-gimme a break!! Also Fred Williams on home track - gimme a break. If it had been held at Newport in the mid sixties maybe Alby Golden ,Dick Bradley or Peter Vandenberg would have been World Champ. Having said all that I reckon the current system is better but should anyone win it without actually winning a meeting? e.g. Mark Loram.. Anyway I've lost interest to hell with it

There were extremely few "crazy results". Indeed quite possibly '73 was the only one.

The vast majority of champions appeared at least one other time on the rostrum and riders like Briggs, Mauger, Olsen & Fundin had numerous rostrum finishes in addition to their multiple crowns..

The World Final tested the mettle of the very best in a way the multi-round series format never can. To win in the white hot atmosphere of the World Final took a very special rider. For riders to do it multiple times like those four just mentioned, showed they were truly exceptional. If it was a lottery they'd have been a lot more champs than there were!

And more than that it was a fantastically exciting night!! And isn't that what sport is meant to be about (especially our sport!): excitement!

[fatface]

In the days of the 'one off' World Final - we did not have an outside Company taking all of the money out of British Speedway either.

Shame then that the promoters did sod-all with that money then. Did any of them actually invest in their facilities and trying to move with the times?

[Guest]

Shame then that the promoters did sod-all with that money then. Did any of them actually invest in their facilities and trying to move with the times?

 

In most cases it's not for promoters to use their money to improve stadium facilities. The majority are just tenants - they would have to negotiate with the stadium owners, then if work went ahead, pay an increased rental. But why should promoters do that...many only stay for a few seasons, then a new group takes over the promotional rights.

[waiheke1]

I appreciate I am an old "stick in the mud" but using the principle..."If it aint broke don't fix it", we should never have moved from the pre 1995 system. It worked.

Wembley 1981...92,000, Cardiff 2014...45,000(ish).

Terenzano had a capacity of 4,000 but staged GP rounds.

Back in the day every track staged qualifying rounds...they were well attended.

In Britain we had the British Final then maybe the Nordic British or European etc. all of which drew good crowds.

I wager a Wembley Final was better anticipated than most GP rounds.

Riders from every country that staged competitive speedway entered the competition so why should it be different now?.

OK..different eras I know but as I have said before, My last World Final was Wembley 1981 and my first GP was Cardiff 2014. I know which was better but honestly, are the powers that be ever going to sanction a return to the old format!.

It is worth remembering that post 1995 unless one travels abroad, we get to see so many GP riders maybe once a year. Pre 1995 we could maybe see top riders in WC rounds, Tests, International open meetings etc.. In Britain we are now starved of top-level speedway which is contributing to the sport's decline.

One can not live in the past but one can learn from it.

Wembley 81 was the last truly great world final. However, it wasn’t 92000 (i think it was around 71000?). and of course by 95 wembley was no longer available. So the issue wasn’t truly there in 81, but it was quite different by 95. How many world finals in between 82-94 exceeded the 45000 Cardiff generates? Odsal never did, and while ODsal was an excellent race track, it hardly compares with the Millenium stadium as a venue. Still a big improvement stadium wise on the likes of Norden which also hosted world finals.

As for your other points.

Britain would get a world final at best every four year, as opposed to a GP every year. We still have the british final. So we miss the overseas/commonwealth final which was annual, and the inter-continental/European final, which would be held in the UK every 4 years or so. So yes, Britian is missing out on around 0.5 world championship meetings per year BUT of course speedway fans now get to see 12 GP meetings live on TV.

As for internationals, while the GP series may have contributed by removing some Friday/Saturday dates, the reality is that these were no longer commecrically viable towards the end, or able to be fitted into riders schedules due to their other domestic leagues – much simpler when all the top riders were Britain based.

So really I think the only way the GP has been to the detriment of British speedway is removal of a number of Friday/Saturday dates from the calendar. The main issue (IMHO) has been the establishment of rival leagues in Poland and Sweden, as well as the failure of speedway governing bodies to invest in long term infrastructure (stadiums, training tracks) during the peak years.

 

So, while I agree that no GP is ever likelt to re-create the magic of the 81 Wembley final, overallthe product which has resulted is far superior (in terms of racing, quality of field and finding a worthy winner) system to the old one, which much as I love it, had had it’s day.

 

In most cases it's not for promoters to use their money to improve stadium facilities. The majority are just tenants - they would have to negotiate with the stadium owners, then if work went ahead, pay an increased rental. But why should promoters do that...many only stay for a few seasons, then a new group takes over the promotional rights.

which of course was Matt K's point. What is the difference between an outside company (BSI) taking profits from the sport, and individual promoters benefitting from a world final payday and then taking the money out of the sport?

How many more would have done so - had they had the chance of qualifying?

 

The truth is that nowadays the vast majority of Speedway Riders are denied the chance to be top of the tree in their chosen Sport because of the Selection System used in the GP Series.

which world class teenager is being denied a chance of qualifying for the G series. Or what rider ?

Reality is, it is probably easier to finish top three through the GP challenge to qualify for the GP series than it was to finish top 11 in the inter-continental final in the old days.

[fatface]

I appreciate I am an old "stick in the mud" but using the principle..."If it aint broke don't fix it", we should never have moved from the pre 1995 system. It worked.

Wembley 1981...92,000, Cardiff 2014...45,000(ish).

Terenzano had a capacity of 4,000 but staged GP rounds.

Back in the day every track staged qualifying rounds...they were well attended.

In Britain we had the British Final then maybe the Nordic British or European etc. all of which drew good crowds.

I wager a Wembley Final was better anticipated than most GP rounds.

Riders from every country that staged competitive speedway entered the competition so why should it be different now?.

OK..different eras I know but as I have said before, My last World Final was Wembley 1981 and my first GP was Cardiff 2014. I know which was better but honestly, are the powers that be ever going to sanction a return to the old format!.

It is worth remembering that post 1995 unless one travels abroad, we get to see so many GP riders maybe once a year. Pre 1995 we could maybe see top riders in WC rounds, Tests, International open meetings etc.. In Britain we are now starved of top-level speedway which is contributing to the sport's decline.

One can not live in the past but one can learn from it.

I could not disagree more. By 1994 our world championship was broken to anyone but the utterly deluded. 1981 was the last great occasion, but even then I think you are being rose-tinted. Penhall's races v Olsen and Knudsen were classics, but it wasn't brilliant racing all night. I also don't believe it was a sell out, a crowd of 75k is more accurate. But I digress, quite simply our World Final had become a very anti-climatic event in pretty average arenas in front of crowds closer to 20k. To suggest we should have simply

ploughed on regardless is plain daft. I have no doubt had we taken that route and interest had continued to dwindle, we would have had the sad spectacle of seeing the World Final at Poole or King's Lynn.

[Guest]

What is the difference between an outside company (BSI) taking profits from the sport, and individual promoters benefitting from a world final payday and then taking the money out of the sport?

 

When the world championship final "profits" are shared out on this basis, how many "cuts" at international would there be for participating countries?

[stratton]

I could not disagree more. By 1994 our world championship was broken to anyone but the utterly deluded. 1981 was the last great occasion, but even then I think you are being rose-tinted. Penhall's races v Olsen and Knudsen were classics, but it wasn't brilliant racing all night. I also don't believe it was a sell out, a crowd of 75k is more accurate. But I digress, quite simply our World Final had become a very anti-climatic event in pretty average arenas in front of crowds closer to 20k. To suggest we should have simply

ploughed on regardless is plain daft. I have no doubt had we taken that route and interest had continued to dwindle, we would have had the sad spectacle of seeing the World Final at Poole or King's Lynn.

75 only? For 81 , they would dream of that gate now what does Cardiff get 50?

[fatface]

75 only? For 81 , they would dream of that gate now what does Cardiff get 50?

Is that really the main point you are taking from this?

 

I'm saying 1981 was a great occasion - but not as great as we like to recall. But it was also clearly the last of its kind. 13 more World Finals demonstrated that quite clearly.

[MattK]

75 only? For 81 , they would dream of that gate now what does Cardiff get 50?

 

I don't think you can really compare the capacities of the one-off finals with the Cardiff GPs. Cardiff is an annual event, if there was a one-off final today it would be held in the UK once every six or seven years.

 

A better comparison would be the cumulative GP attendances for a whole year with the old one-off finals.

[Parsloes 1928 nearly]

Makes me chuckle when people say we'd only get a World Final only every six years..

Under the current system when was the last time a World Championship was decided in this country.. 1995 wasn't it..? That's nearly TWENTY years ago! And with a GB SGP in June/July when will the next time be? Er, NEVER..!!

The GB SGP isn't even 10% of what a proper World Final would be... It's almost entirely meaningless in fact...

[stratton]

I don't think you can really compare the capacities of the one-off finals with the Cardiff GPs. Cardiff is an annual event, if there was a one-off final today it would be held in the UK once every six or seven years.

 

A better comparison would be the cumulative GP attendances for a whole year with the old one-off finals.

Wembley out scored it everytime, however you dress it up.

Makes me chuckle when people say we'd only get a World Final only every six years..Under the current system when was the last time a World Championship was decided in this country.. 1995 wasn't it..? That's nearly TWENTY years ago! And with a GB SGP in June/July when will the next time be? Er, NEVER..!!The GB SGP isn't even 10% of what a proper World Final would be... It's almost entirely meaningless in fact...

I Agree totally,not all of us are sucked in by the GP love in.

[waiheke1]

Saying that only the finsl round of yhe gp series determines the winner is like saying only the last four heats of a world finsl detetmined the winner - utter nonsense.

that said, I'm sure if the uk had a suitable venue available in october then they would get a finsl round every few years - any suggestions parsloes?

[mickthemuppet]

Wembley out scored it everytime, however you dress it up.

I Agree totally,not all of us are sucked in by the GP love in.

Especially as Speedway gets nothing out of it at all#

Lets get bac to a World Speedway Championship that benefits Speedway and not a commercial company.

Th prize money paid out is a pittance for three hour live sports action. There has got to be something wrong when riders cannot make it pay

[MattK]

Wembley out scored it everytime, however you dress it up.

 

 

I don't know the ins and outs, but the last world final at Wembley was 1981. Two more were held in the UK before the GP Series was initiated, both at Bradford - why was that?

[waiheke1]

Especially as Speedway gets nothing out of it at all#

Lets get bac to a World Speedway Championship that benefits Speedway and not a commercial company.

Th prize money paid out is a pittance for three hour live sports action. There has got to be something wrong when riders cannot make it pay

yet the money riders were paid in the old world championship days was no better, and worse in the qualifying rounds.

can you give examples of how the world chsmpionship proceeds were put to good use in benefitting speedway as a whole?

[customhouseregular]

In the days of the 'one off' World Final - we did not have an outside Company taking all of the money out of British Speedway either.

Very true WK.

 

I don't know the ins and outs, but the last world final at Wembley was 1981. Two more were held in the UK before the GP Series was initiated, both at Bradford - why was that?

As I understand it, Wembley opted out of staging speedway events after 1981, to everyone's surprise and dismay. Bradford had a large capacity though was no Wembley. I do not understand why Wembley today could not hold a major speedway meeting, as they have held other motor sports events there.