How On Earth To They Manage To Give Riders Stupid Averages

[The White Knight]

Once again... and it's either my age, the fact I can't be bothered, or that the sport really has too many rules that are as difficult to keep up with (like an obese fella chasing his runaway mobility scooter down a hill), that I can't even be arsed reading them sometimes. Just when you think you know the rules, after 40 years a fan, some student on the terraces smacks you one, asking "can they do that?"

I am sure one of the things that puts people off Speedway is the complexity of the Rules/Regulations. Only four blokes riding around a Track for heaven's sake.

 

How complicated do you need to make it? :sad:

[lucifer sam]

But regarding MPT it's really not that complicated. Next year, his PL average is.... his PL average.

 

All the best

Rob

[Shale Searcher]

Once again... and it's either my age, the fact I can't be bothered, or that the sport really has too many rules that are as difficult to keep up with (like an obese fella chasing his runaway mobility scooter down a hill), that I can't even be arsed reading them sometimes. Just when you think you know the rules, after 40 years a fan, some student on the terraces smacks you one, asking "can they do that?"

Why don't we get a copy of the 2015 rulebook posted digitally on this forum somewhere..... There has to be someone with enough time on their hands to scan it and get it posted, be like a rule almanac online, a point we can all turn to in our 60 seconds of need!!!!

[John Leslie]

I am sure one of the things that puts people off Speedway is the complexity of the Rules/Regulations. Only four blokes riding around a Track for heaven's sake.

 

How complicated do you need to make it? :sad:

Nonsense. Have you seen the size of the Formula 1 rules and regulations? The entire Speedway Regulations would fit within one chapter of F1's rulebook. (And no one fully understands the F1 rules either), but it doesn't stop millions of people watching F1

 

You don't need to know the full wording of every rule to enjoy watching any sport. Every supporter will be watching the same Michael Palm Toft racing next year regardless of whether they knew what his exact average was the previous December

 

Why don't we get a copy of the 2015 rulebook posted digitally on this forum somewhere..... There has to be someone with enough time on their hands to scan it and get it posted, be like a rule almanac online, a point we can all turn to in our 60 seconds of need!!!!

No need to scan it and post here. It will be available on the SCB website just as it is every year.

Edited December 3, 2014 by John Leslie

[Tsunami]

Nonsense. Have you seen the size of the Formula 1 rules and regulations? The entire Speedway Regulations would fit within one chapter of F1's rulebook. (And no one fully understands the F1 rules either), but it doesn't stop millions of people watching F1

 

You don't need to know the full wording of every rule to enjoy watching any sport. Every supporter will be watching the same Michael Palm Toft racing next year regardless of whether they knew what his exact average was the previous December

 

No need to scan it and post here. It will be available on the SCB website just as it is every year.

I don't know one person that goes to speedway to watch the rules. It's about 4 riders racing around a track for 4 laps. Nowt complicated about that, couldn't be simpler, and anybody who stops watching speedway because of rules, is not a speedway supporter in the first instance. Think 1500 runners at the Olympic final, 4 runners dicing to try and win the race. Does anybody stop going or watching it because say like Zola Budd was running for GB and not SA.

[Barney Rabbit]

I don't know one person that goes to speedway to watch the rules. It's about 4 riders racing around a track for 4 laps. Nowt complicated about that, couldn't be simpler, and anybody who stops watching speedway because of rules, is not a speedway supporter in the first instance. Think 1500 runners at the Olympic final, 4 runners dicing to try and win the race. Does anybody stop going or watching it because say like Zola Budd was running for GB and not SA.

 

What a load of cobblers!!

 

After many years of watching Panthers home and away, their riders in individual events, sponsoring the occasional rider, going to many neutral meetings a year, visiting new tracks as soon as possible after their opening, fitting in meetings whenever I could when travelling, arranging holidays especially to be able to visit tracks, going to Australia, USA and Poland on speedway-specific holidays, going to most GP venues for GPs I now discover that, because I got peed off with the rules and the way they are administered I was never a speedway supporter in the first place!

 

I wish I'd have known that years ago. Think of the money I'd have saved by not attending a sport I didn't follow.

Edited December 3, 2014 by Barney Rabbit

[ch958]

I am sure one of the things that puts people off Speedway is the complexity of the Rules/Regulations. Only four blokes riding around a Track for heaven's sake.

 

How complicated do you need to make it? :sad:

 

well it shouldn't be complicated at all but they try to block cheating.

 

when i started watching speedway in 1968 i dont recall that there were rules just the rider control to even out teams

i can't remember whether there were fiddled cheat line ups or not

it didn't seem to be an issue

[Tsunami]

What a load of cobblers!

 

 

What a load of cobblers!!

 

After many years of watching Panthers home and away, their riders in individual events, sponsoring the occasional rider, going to many neutral meetings a year, visiting new tracks as soon as possible after their opening, fitting in meetings whenever I could when travelling, arranging holidays especially to be able to visit tracks, going to Australia, USA and Poland on speedway-specific holidays, going to most GP venues for GPs I now discover that, because I got peed off with the rules and the way they are administered I was never a speedway supporter in the first place!

 

I wish I'd have known that years ago. Think of the money I'd have saved by not attending a sport I didn't follow.

And during all that time, they had rules. Some that you agreed with, and some you didn't. So are really saying a particular rule stopped you going to, and supporting, speedway racing with 4 riders racing around a track. Cos that is speedway.

[Barney Rabbit]

And during all that time, they had rules. Some that you agreed with, and some you didn't. So are really saying a particular rule stopped you going to, and supporting, speedway racing with 4 riders racing around a track. Cos that is speedway.

 

 

I like to think there's more to speedway than just 'four riders riding round a track'. I had a cat once that sat on the arm of the settee watching the cars go round a scalextric track. He watched 'two cars go round a track', getting down when they stopped but was up again when it was obvious the cars were going to 'go round the track' again.

I prefer to think I got more out of a speedway meeting than that cat got just watching things 'going round a track'.

 

And to answer your question it wasn't a particular rule that stopped me going (although the play-offs turning the league programme into a long-winded qualifying group nearly did) but the unfair way the rules were administered. The rules or the administration of them - same thing.

Edited December 3, 2014 by Barney Rabbit

[IronScorpion]

Hi guys & gals. Look when I posted this on the Scorpions thread. I saw the opportunity, others must have, also.

 

 

Members

428 posts

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 02:44 PM

 

 

Would Rob drop David now that he has got the no1 spot back? mmm, not too sure "howe" Rob thinks but it could make people up their game, which includes Josh, with the move to EL Fast Track, sure to help him.

 

 

 

Another topic on the threads being the EL to PL conversion being dropped from 1.6 to 1.4.

 

 

 

Rob, also, is basing his team on entertainment where wins might not come easy. Too many like our easy track & we struggle on the tight ones.

 

 

 

2015: R Worrall 7.32 D Howe 7.29 J Auty 7.04 R Douglas 6.73 N Lunna 5.00 MPT 4.92 E Perks 3.00

 

 

 

Note; Worrall & MPT could, also, be back at Belle Vue which could rule 1 of them out if Cookie is still there. MPT I have craftily put in the team NOT on his EL converted CMA of 7.28 but he still has a PL CMA from 2013 of 4.92 riding for Plymouth. I don't know if you can carry it for 2 years but worth a try. There's always corners to be cut somewhere.

[arnieg]

There was a thread in May (on Newcastle team changes) where it was pointed out that MPT would come back to the PL on his old average of 4.92

[The White Knight]

I don't know one person that goes to speedway to watch the rules. It's about 4 riders racing around a track for 4 laps. Nowt complicated about that, couldn't be simpler, and anybody who stops watching speedway because of rules, is not a speedway supporter in the first instance. Think 1500 runners at the Olympic final, 4 runners dicing to try and win the race. Does anybody stop going or watching it because say like Zola Budd was running for GB and not SA.

Dave - why do you constantly snipe at people who have a different point of view to yourself. I have nothing against you at all so why do you go out of your way to be provocative. Surely I can comment on here as often as I like about things and so can you.

 

I am not the only Poster on here who gets to feel your ire. A little consideration for the feelings of others might help.

 

Oh by the way - I first started supporting Speedway back in 1964 - I think I have earned (paid for) the right to be called a Speedway Supporter - don't you?

 

Perhaps my principles are rather high - but I try to live by them. You know why I will not attend Speedway - you should respect that, as I respect your views on certain things. (I said respect - not necessarily agree with).

[Bagpuss]

While I appreciate that some people will go to speedway to watch the racing come what may, I think it's understandable that the enthusiasm of others gets eroded by the rules and their application, non application and bending. For some a level playing field is essential in the first instance and I can understand why those people might stop going in its absence.

[Tsunami]

Dave - why do you constantly snipe at people who have a different point of view to yourself. I have nothing against you at all so why do you go out of your way to be provocative. Surely I can comment on here as often as I like about things and so can you.

 

I am not the only Poster on here who gets to feel your ire. A little consideration for the feelings of others might help.

 

Oh by the way - I first started supporting Speedway back in 1964 - I think I have earned (paid for) the right to be called a Speedway Supporter - don't you?

 

Perhaps my principles are rather high - but I try to live by them. You know why I will not attend Speedway - you should respect that, as I respect your views on certain things. (I said respect - not necessarily agree with).

Anybody can have any view on any subject, but to to continually moan about the same old same old, on every thread becomes a bite tiresome to others.

 

Quite agree, as long as you respect ours with your incessant rants about Old World Finals, TR's , Playoffs, the golden days, etc, especially when you are now not an attending speedway fan putting anything into the sport.

Note, I am not the only one that comments on these regular rants. Move on.

Edited December 4, 2014 by Tsunami

[The White Knight]

Anybody can have any view on any subject, but to to continually moan about the same old same old, on every thread becomes a bite tiresome to others.

 

Quite agree, as long as you respect ours with your incessant rants about Old World Finals, TR's , Playoffs, the golden days, etc, especially when you are now not an attending speedway fan putting anything into the sport.

Note, I am not the only one that comments on these regular rants. Move on.

I do respect all of your views. I just don't agree with all of them that is all.

 

You are quite right too, that you are not the only one who comments about my Posts and argues against some of them - but I do get a lot of support too. That is what this Forum is for, differing views.

[Tsunami]

I do respect all of your views. I just don't agree with all of them that is all.

 

You are quite right too, that you are not the only one who comments about my Posts and argues against some of them - but I do get a lot of support too. That is what this Forum is for, differing views.

 

I must admit I was wrong to suggest that you and others like Barney Rabbit were not proper speedway fans, because you had stopped liking or supporting the sport because of rules. What I can't understand is if speedway is 4 riders racing around a track 4 times a race, and that has never changed since it started, how can any rule make people stop going and attending meetings. If you don't agree with rules like GP's, Play Offs, TR's, Guests, tapes, etc, you are entitled to your view on them(never ever denied anyone that), but to bomb on about them time, after time, after time, suggests it's possibly becoming an obsession with you, which can grate on others.

Remember things like 'guests' gets some fans going, but there is not an alternative to them. Green helmet colour could have been a fundamental change that would have allowed a very lucrative upturn in speedways fortunes, etc. I could give you a lot more changes, and good reasons for their introduction, but in all walks of life things change, some good some bad, but it's just most of us just get with it.

Lighten up, changes in speedway will always be with us, they are not that important. Mind you 4 riders racing around a track 4 times, now that's something special. That's speedway.

[BWitcher]

It's disingenuous to blame the averages on Kokko's decision to retire ... there are other leagues to ride in.

 

I thought the rule was that the higher average applied, to prevent riders moving on a "false" average, and had never realised it was different. The fact that Workington thought the Dane would be on a 7+ shows they have belief in him! or that they're very poor judges of ability?!

 

Lottery, farce? You couldn't make it up as you go along ... except, they do.

 

The only 'false' average is the one Palm Toft obtained in the EL where as per all the second strings he has an inflated average.

 

It makes 100% perfect sense for him to use his PL average. The average he obtained riding in the PL.

Once again... and it's either my age, the fact I can't be bothered, or that the sport really has too many rules that are as difficult to keep up with (like an obese fella chasing his runaway mobility scooter down a hill), that I can't even be arsed reading them sometimes. Just when you think you know the rules, after 40 years a fan, some student on the terraces smacks you one, asking "can they do that?"

 

It's simple.

 

However the issue is many speedway fans are just that... and it seems promoters at times when rules are involved.

I am sure one of the things that puts people off Speedway is the complexity of the Rules/Regulations. Only four blokes riding around a Track for heaven's sake.

 

How complicated do you need to make it? :sad:

 

Speedway has very basic rules.

I don't know one person that goes to speedway to watch the rules. It's about 4 riders racing around a track for 4 laps. Nowt complicated about that, couldn't be simpler, and anybody who stops watching speedway because of rules, is not a speedway supporter in the first instance. Think 1500 runners at the Olympic final, 4 runners dicing to try and win the race. Does anybody stop going or watching it because say like Zola Budd was running for GB and not SA.

 

I agree to an extent.

 

However, what DOES stop fans attending is when the rules aren't applied correctly, or manipulated. I would argue the exact opposite and argue you are no speedway fan if you are happy to idly stand by when that happens.

 

In this particular case though, nothing to see, the rules have been followed.

[Arson fire]

Why cant they just use the most up to date average?? Be it a coverted one or not??... Seems like MPT and a few other two bob foreigners have the best of both worlds yet we do nothing to enhance our own prospects like Lambert, or someone who has been a good servant in Schlein.

 

Its ludicrous that you can have a higher EL ave, but ride in the PL on less.

[Tsunami]

Why cant they just use the most up to date average?? Be it a coverted one or not??... Seems like MPT and a few other two bob foreigners have the best of both worlds yet we do nothing to enhance our own prospects like Lambert, or someone who has been a good servant in Schlein.

 

Its ludicrous that you can have a higher EL ave, but ride in the PL on less.

As was stated earlier by SCB. In 2000 Brent Werner went up to the EL with Eastbourne, and got himself an average about 7 from reserve. A rule was brought out so that riders like him weren't penalised for trying out the EL, and allowed such riders to drop back to the PL on his old PL average. If that rule had not been brought in, Brent would not have got a ride in either the EL or the PL, as he clearly was not a 7 point rider. He was probably a 7 point PL rider, who got lucky with EL with his superb gating. He probably would not have got that EL average if it was Peterborough for example.

 

As it happens MPT is more a 4.92 rider in the PL anyway. Perhaps this is a good example of the rules being changed to more than reflect his true average, rather than ruin his chances of getting a ride over here.

[dontforgetthefueltapsbruv]

Since the time when the 'issue' arose with the riders mentioned the conversion rate had been altered from 0.5 to 0.6 to attempt to rebalance the inter league strengths.

Then to combat the skewed format a further change has been made this winter.

Therefore IMO the MPT rule is outdated. However it is there and has been rightly administered and too late to change now even if the will was there to do so.