How On Earth To They Manage To Give Riders Stupid Averages

[weatherwatcher]

Just seen this the SCB site. How on earth can they give Palm Toft a PL average of 4.92, when it was even thought by Workington that he would have had a 7.28 average.

The way they are giving these averages, you will soon be seeing most of the lower hald EL riders all riding in the PL with these silly faulse averages. Who comes up with them and how do they find the means to warent them. No wonder British speedway is in such bad shape young British riders have fat chance evn getting a PL place if they give these oversea's riders such stupid low average scores.

The sport is being run by a load of lunatics.

 

WORKINGTON have added a fourth Dane to their team for 2015 with the signing of Michael Palm Toft on loan from Scunthorpe.

The 24-year-old spent last season in the Elite League with Belle Vue, and was recommended to the Comets by his Aces team-mate and former Workington man Craig Cook.

Co-promoter Steve Whitehead said: “There had been some queries about Michael’s average, which would have been converted to 7.28 for the Premier League based on his 2014 performances with Belle Vue. But, when Craig Cook mentioned that he felt he would do a great job in the Premier League based on his Elite League performances, and we received confirmation that his average would be the 2013 figure of 4.92, we started to talk to Michael.

“In the end it was quite an easy deal to do. Michael is very keen to join us and team up with the other Danes, and in acquiring his services we feel that we’ve bagged a rider on what looks like a bargain average.”

[Shale Searcher]

Just seen this the SCB site. How on earth can they give Palm Toft a PL average of 4.92, when it was even thought by Workington that he would have had a 7.28 average.

The way they are giving these averages, you will soon be seeing most of the lower hald EL riders all riding in the PL with these silly faulse averages. Who comes up with them and how do they find the means to warent them. No wonder British speedway is in such bad shape young British riders have fat chance evn getting a PL place if they give these oversea's riders such stupid low average scores.

The sport is being run by a load of lunatics.

 

WORKINGTON have added a fourth Dane to their team for 2015 with the signing of Michael Palm Toft on loan from Scunthorpe.

 

The 24-year-old spent last season in the Elite League with Belle Vue, and was recommended to the Comets by his Aces team-mate and former Workington man Craig Cook.

 

Co-promoter Steve Whitehead said: There had been some queries about Michaels average, which would have been converted to 7.28 for the Premier League based on his 2014 performances with Belle Vue. But, when Craig Cook mentioned that he felt he would do a great job in the Premier League based on his Elite League performances, and we received confirmation that his average would be the 2013 figure of 4.92, we started to talk to Michael.

 

In the end it was quite an easy deal to do. Michael is very keen to join us and team up with the other Danes, and in acquiring his services we feel that weve bagged a rider on what looks like a bargain average.

They are using his (actual) 2013 PL average, instead of a contrived EL to PL conversion..... I think a converted EL average would have been the pertinent average to use in this scenario... But they are within the regs to do this..

[Shadders]

They are using his (actual) 2013 PL average, instead of a contrived EL to PL conversion..... I think a converted EL average would have been the pertinent average to use in this scenario... But they are within the regs to do this..

Just goes to show what a joke some of these regulations are.

Well done to Workington for spotting this, a no brainer on that average.

[JCookie]

Why? He's a PL second string let's be fair, might add a point if he has a good year.

[SCB]

The rule has been in place since 2001. It was brought in because Petri Kokko, Glenn Cunningham and Andre Compton all moved up, got higher averages and then dropped so in Petris case he was forced to retire and Glenn and Andres case they had to drop back down on unrealistic averages.

 

It's a reasonable rule. I'm not sure how anyone can possibly think Toft is anything but a 5 point rider. His averages in his 4 PL guest bookings last year was on a par with his PL averages of the PL seasons he did before that.

[Fromafar]

Rory Schlien could return on his original Pl average then?

[SCB]

Rory Schlien could return on his original Pl average then?

No

[The White Knight]

No

That's what I like - straight and to the point.

[lucifer sam]

Of course MPT is on 4.92.... it's his PL average. It's not assessed, but an actual average.

 

All the best

Rob

[SCB]

I thought the rule was that the higher average applied, to prevent riders moving on a "false" average, and had never realised it was different. The fact that Workington thought the Dane would be on a 7+ shows they have belief in him! or that they're very poor judges of ability?!

No idea where you get the idea it's the higher average - as I'm pretty sure thats never been the case, I knew that Werner went EL with Eastbourne in 2001 and averaged 5.5 but dropped back to the PL in 2002 with Rye House on his old PL average of 8, not 11.

 

And just because a speedway clubs thinks something doesn't make it right. As a collective they have some seriously wacky ideas, so as individual clubs they'll be even worse

[Guest]

Whoopsie!!

 

 

• How On Earth To They Manage...

T should be D? But it's a great topic and I am enjoying my visits to follow the debate.

[Tsunami]

Whoopsie!!

 

 

• How On Earth To They Manage...

 

T should be D? But it's a great topic and I am enjoying my visits to follow the debate.

 

weatherwatcher strikes again.

Edited December 2, 2014 by Tsunami

[John Leslie]

Whoopsie!!

 

 

• How On Earth To They Manage...

T should be D? But it's a great topic and I am enjoying my visits to follow the debate.

 

What a Tickhead!

[Guest]

 

What a Tickhead!

 

All that I expect from you!

 

weatherwatcher strikes again.

 

...and the same comment as in previous message applies to you!

 

I have a friend who is involved in rowing - as he would say to both of you - "What a load of rowlocks!"

Edited December 2, 2014 by Guest

[weatherwatcher]

I put the blame on only having the light from my computer screen in here to type by or the fact that I have dyslexia of the fingers. Who cares anyway I don't. Adds to the fun and all the comments I get back.

It still makes no sense to me that a rider can go up to the EL and say score an average of 6 is then go back down to the PL and go back to his old PL average. Surely they must be some rule that they have in place to make an addition to his PL average, from the scores he has managed to get in the EL.

Or are they saying that the riding is that much harder in the Pl than the EL. Saying that though it could be true as they have in my opinion some better riders in the PL that they are now giving us in the EL. In some ways it is now not the best speedway league, as half the riders places are filled with a poor exuse for being just that this countries top league, they now fail to bring in most of the worlds top riders, they no longer want to ride over here, at the start of the season we get riders that come over here to earn a few quid before the leagues abroad start then we don't see them again.

Sorry this is nothing to do with the original post, but it still makes no sense how they give these riders averages, you only have to look at how they give overseas riders that come over to the EL, still waiting with baited breath to see what average the give to the young pole that is coming to race for Leicester next season.

[Shale Searcher]

I put the blame on only having the light from my computer screen in here to type by or the fact that I have dyslexia of the fingers. Who cares anyway I don't. Adds to the fun and all the comments I get back.

It still makes no sense to me that a rider can go up to the EL and say score an average of 6 is then go back down to the PL and go back to his old PL average. Surely they must be some rule that they have in place to make an addition to his PL average, from the scores he has managed to get in the EL.

Or are they saying that the riding is that much harder in the Pl than the EL. Saying that though it could be true as they have in my opinion some better riders in the PL that they are now giving us in the EL. In some ways it is now not the best speedway league, as half the riders places are filled with a poor exuse for being just that this countries top league, they now fail to bring in most of the worlds top riders, they no longer want to ride over here, at the start of the season we get riders that come over here to earn a few quid before the leagues abroad start then we don't see them again.

Sorry this is nothing to do with the original post, but it still makes no sense how they give these riders averages, you only have to look at how they give overseas riders that come over to the EL, still waiting with baited breath to see what average the give to the young pole that is coming to race for Leicester next season.

My guess is a 5.00, which is about right in my book....... If however the powers that be use the old /by rides x races, and / again by last places, providing the previous figure was > 4.56 and if then that figure is < than 6.29, it will be a 4.00

[Guest]

 

What a Tickhead!

 

 

 

All that I expect from you!

 

I have a friend who is involved in rowing - as he would say - "What a load of rowlocks!"

 

 

Pythonesque

 

 

...and the rowing retort applies to you as well!

Edited December 2, 2014 by Guest

[John Leslie]

It still makes no sense to me that a rider can go up to the EL and say score an average of 6 is then go back down to the PL and go back to his old PL average. Surely they must be some rule that they have in place to make an addition to his PL average, from the scores he has managed to get in the EL.

It was a rule they made a few years ago trying to encourage upcoming PL riders to make the step up to the EL.

 

The problem improving PL riders had was that they could go EL on a nice converted average, then if they had a good season and improved their EL average, they weren't such a bargain anymore for the next season. So the EL club didn't re-sign them, and being saddled with a higher EL average, this converted back to a very high PL average.

This left them trapped. The EL didn't want them, and their new average was too high for a switch back to PL.

 

So the BSPA made a rule that any PL rider moving up to EL, could always be allowed to drop back to PL the following year on their original average.

 

Take Palm-Toft as an example. He was a 4.92 PL rider and so went to Belle Vue on 4.92 * 0.6 = 3.00

He pushed his EL average up to 5.20 (due to the easier race format).

No EL team wants him on 5.20 and if this was converted back on the same scale, (5.2 / 0.6) no PL team would want him on 8.67, so he would be unemployable. Hence the rule he could drop back to PL after 1 year on the old average.

 

Of course this year we seem to have a new 1.4 conversion factor (though we haven't been told) so this could make him 7.28 in PL which some might say is a more realistic figure, though some may not.

[B.V 72]

It was a rule they made a few years ago trying to encourage upcoming PL riders to make the step up to the EL.

 

The problem improving PL riders had was that they could go EL on a nice converted average, then if they had a good season and improved their EL average, they weren't such a bargain anymore for the next season. So the EL club didn't re-sign them, and being saddled with a higher EL average, this converted back to a very high PL average.

This left them trapped. The EL didn't want them, and their new average was too high for a switch back to PL.

 

So the BSPA made a rule that any PL rider moving up to EL, could always be allowed to drop back to PL the following year on their original average.

 

Take Palm-Toft as an example. He was a 4.92 PL rider and so went to Belle Vue on 4.92 * 0.6 = 3.00

He pushed his EL average up to 5.20 (due to the easier race format).

No EL team wants him on 5.20 and if this was converted back on the same scale, (5.2 / 0.6) no PL team would want him on 8.67, so he would be unemployable. Hence the rule he could drop back to PL after 1 year on the old average.

 

Of course this year we seem to have a new 1.4 conversion factor (though we haven't been told) so this could make him 7.28 in PL which some might say is a more realistic figure, though some may not.

For once i think that this is one of the better rules in speedway.We all want to see a rider with potential move up to the Elite league and not double up and i think this rule gives them the confidence to give it a try.They know that if it does not work out there will still be a place for them in the Premier league.As John has worked out if they give it a go and it does not work out and then their Elite league average is converted back to give them an approx 8 point average there is a little chance of a Premier team signing them.If this was the case then i cannot see many of them risking it and a good few riders would then never reach their true potential.

[moxey63]

Once again... and it's either my age, the fact I can't be bothered, or that the sport really has too many rules that are as difficult to keep up with (like an obese fella chasing his runaway mobility scooter down a hill), that I can't even be arsed reading them sometimes. Just when you think you know the rules, after 40 years a fan, some student on the terraces smacks you one, asking "can they do that?"