PHILIPRISING Posted May 14, 2015 Report Share Posted May 14, 2015 I'm sorry Philip I think BSI do have a responsibility. Remember, once Riders are developed they eventually, if all goes well, and they are successful, go on to be GP Riders. Is it not incumbent on BSI to at least contribute to their own life's blood? POLAND, Denmark and Australia don't seem to have any trouble finding young riders... GB's troubles started along with the demise of the grasstrack scene which brought us, amongst many others, the Collins brothers, the Morton brothers, Chris Pusey, Kelvin Tatum, Simon Wigg, Jeremy Doncaster et al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted May 14, 2015 Report Share Posted May 14, 2015 POLAND, Denmark and Australia don't seem to have any trouble finding young riders... GB's troubles started along with the demise of the grasstrack scene which brought us, amongst many others, the Collins brothers, the Morton brothers, Chris Pusey, Kelvin Tatum, Simon Wigg, Jeremy Doncaster et al. You may well be right. All the more reason for BSI to contribute for the good of Speedway. British Speedway needs all the help it can get at present, the Sport is dying. BSI are creaming off the top talent from our Tracks for their own benefit without a thought of the consequences of their actions. If there were no GPs it is difficult to imagine that Riders, Foreign or otherwise, would be giving Speedway in this Country a miss. Therefore as a direct consequence of the GPs - British Speedway is affected. To me, anyway, BSI should contribute financially to help alleviate the problem that they themselves are helping to perpetuate. They won't, of course, why should they? They are getting, it seems to me, Speedway for virtually nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILIPRISING Posted May 14, 2015 Report Share Posted May 14, 2015 PLENTY of riders not in the SGP give Britain a miss... think you are barking up the wrong tree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted May 14, 2015 Report Share Posted May 14, 2015 PLENTY of riders not in the SGP give Britain a miss... think you are barking up the wrong tree I just don't accept that. Sorry. May I ask why you are so defensive of BSI Philip? I am not being nasty or anything, but I am curious to know. Please believe me when I say that this is a genuine question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f-s-p Posted May 14, 2015 Report Share Posted May 14, 2015 I just don't accept that. Sorry. May I ask why you are so defensive of BSI Philip? I am not being nasty or anything, but I am curious to know. Please believe me when I say that this is a genuine question. You should bold, underline, make it red and change the font on the bottom line. Doesnt look like you at all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILIPRISING Posted May 14, 2015 Report Share Posted May 14, 2015 I just don't accept that. Sorry. May I ask why you are so defensive of BSI Philip? I am not being nasty or anything, but I am curious to know. Please believe me when I say that this is a genuine question. NOT be defensive at all ... just giving an opinion same as you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted May 14, 2015 Report Share Posted May 14, 2015 NOT be defensive at all ... just giving an opinion same as you. I don't agree. Thank you for your reply. Doesn't really answer my question though - does it? I think we may have to agree to differ on this. I still hold my views on BSI, and self evidently, you hold yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted May 14, 2015 Report Share Posted May 14, 2015 (edited) May I ask why you are so defensive of BSI Philip?He does business with them. I think the reality is that the SGP doesn't really make substantial amounts of money, and even if it was run for the benefit of speedway rather than a US corporation, you'd still have to distribute that money around a number of countries. I don't think it would be realistic for the BSPA to expect more than half-a-million a year at best. Edited May 14, 2015 by Humphrey Appleby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted May 14, 2015 Report Share Posted May 14, 2015 He does business with them. Interesting Humphrey - I did not know that. I await your next reply with interest Philip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILIPRISING Posted May 14, 2015 Report Share Posted May 14, 2015 Interesting Humphrey - I did not know that. I await your next reply with interest Philip. SEE post 1596... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted May 14, 2015 Report Share Posted May 14, 2015 SEE post 1596... Mmmmmmm - Thank you for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPEEDY69 Posted May 14, 2015 Report Share Posted May 14, 2015 POLAND, Denmark and Australia don't seem to have any trouble finding young riders... GB's troubles started along with the demise of the grasstrack scene which brought us, amongst many others, the Collins brothers, the Morton brothers, Chris Pusey, Kelvin Tatum, Simon Wigg, Jeremy Doncaster et al. Don't agree with this. The riders you mention were talented motorcyclists and their development did not depend upon anything from the authorities in the UK. There are lots of talented British riders who get as far as the top of the amateur scene but no further due to a combination of a lack of guidance/training, opportunities and sometimes funding but I stress this is not always the main factor. It is not for BSI to fix the issues in the UK but the BSPA. They currently block British riders from competing abroad e.g. SEC & Best Pairs and do little to provide international experience or competition for those making it as far as becoming league riders. I am involved in the amateur scene and they are year on year making it harder for amateur clubs to provide practice opportunities for hopefuls and under 15s due to insurance and permit restrictions as well as track hire becoming too expensive - without the amateur scene just how does a new rider take their first steps into the sport? In Poland they have unlimited practising provided at tracks and actually support upcoming riders, Denmark have a racing infrastructure from small cc bikes upwards. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted May 14, 2015 Report Share Posted May 14, 2015 (edited) It is not for BSI to fix the issues in the UK but the BSPA. It's not for BSI or even the FIM to fix the issues in British speedway, and certainly British speedway is largely the architect of its own demise. However, the SGP did affect the British leagues much more than other national leagues because it took away several prime weekend race nights on which the more economically successful tracks generally rode. No-one would suggest it was the sole reason for the sport that was already in decline, but it certainly didn't help. Getting back to the issue at hand though, the sport's premier event should be run for the benefit of that sport, as it is with most other professional sports. IMG have a reputation for going after sports with low barriers to entry and little in the way of obligations, and whilst you can't blame them for seeking those opportunities, speedway stupidly continues to allow itself to be sold short to an organisation that cares little for the sport or its future. Ultimately yes, the FIM are to blame for not extracting better commercial value, although I suspect they were just happy to off-load the running of an unfashionable discipline in return for a few shekels. I'm sure the money they receive (aside from what they pay out as prize money) does go towards the furtherance of motor sport (after all the wining and dining of officials has been taken care of), but the extent to which it benefits professional speedway is questionable. What really is to be gained by running U21 World Finals halfway round the world or staging meetings in countries where there's little or no organised speedway - the money would be far better spent on facilitating local practice circuits and junior competitions. The promoters running professional speedway (i.e. in Britain, Poland, Sweden and Denmark) are also to blame for allowing the FIM to sell a product that they provide the substantive ingredients for (the riders and their wages), without negotiating any percentage of the returns. They're even more foolish for not doing exactly what IMG/BSI are doing in the first place, but instead running the SGP for their own benefit. It's not rocket science, even if they're incapable of organising 12 meetings a season and getting them on television, there's plenty of sports management organisations out there that would have done it for them for a cut of the profits. If womens' netball can get several millions to be on television every week, then it really does put into perspective what a poor effort speedway makes. Instead, we get the endless repeated mantra of how BSI have 'raised the bar' etc.. etc.. despite the fact that the bar was on the ground to start with and it's only been raised a few inches in 15 years. Even worse, is how many fans unquestioningly buy into this myth, to the point of becoming apologists for what is in reality a not especially well run competition, nor one that much benefits the wider sport. Edited May 14, 2015 by Humphrey Appleby 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILIPRISING Posted May 15, 2015 Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 (edited) GPs at the London Arena, Bradford and Coventry and then Cardiff. Seems a bit more than a few inches to me. Edited May 15, 2015 by PHILIPRISING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted May 15, 2015 Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 (edited) GPs at the London Arena, Bradford and Coventry and then Cardiff. Seems a bit more than a few inches to me.The Millennium Stadium wasn't built before BSI took over the SGP, neither was Parken or Stockholm, so it's a pointless comparison. Bradford and Coventry were certainly also as good as some of the current GP venues. Edited May 15, 2015 by Humphrey Appleby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Central Posted May 15, 2015 Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 (edited) The Millennium Stadium wasn't built before BSI took over the SGP, neither was Parken or Stockholm, so it's a pointless comparison. Bradford and Coventry were certainly also as good as some of the current GP venues.Yes it always makes me smile when Philip does his rewrite of history. Again and again. Going back in his time capsule. I just wonder where BSI would have staged the 1997 British GP, for instance. Or how 'John P the Great' would have found better venues in the 1990s in other countries? Even today they cannot do better than the Marketa in Prague, simply because there isn't an alternative built yet. Well it was the same everywhere else back then. Edited May 15, 2015 by Grand Central 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted May 15, 2015 Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 Yes it always makes me smile when Philip does his rewrite of history. Again and again. Going back in his time capsule. I just wonder where BSI would have staged the 1997 British GP, for instance. Going back in his time capsule, he'd be able to retract all his former denouncements of the GP system and tell the Star readership what a wonderful idea it was... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldinhio Posted May 15, 2015 Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 ASK yourself what the FIM do with the money that BSI pay for the commercial rights. Not their responsibility to develop riders. I refer to "People at the top" being short sighted. That can include both the FIM & the BSI. I am not privy to knowing what figure is paid to the FIM and can only look at the BSI retained profit figure which was last reported at £2,000,000 plus per annum. I totally acknowledge the BSI have no contractual obligation to develop riders and as part of IMG their primary motivation is profit. Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with making a profit but at the same time some may question the distribution of the "Cake". That said, my guess is nothing will change given the riders rarely act together and there is no pressure group to fund development. In a previous response you stated the BSI were "Beyond reproach" which I questioned not least because of a non personal email response to a hand written letter. I appreciate you are a fan of the BSI and as declared to others do business with them but do you really believe they are beyond reproach on Warsaw and the nature of their response? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted May 15, 2015 Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 I I am not privy to knowing what figure is paid to the FIM About 1.5 million pounds per year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
severnsider Posted May 15, 2015 Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 I think I remember it correctly but there were critical comments in the Speedway Star about the slowness of the original response on the SGP site and the response to the calling off. Something along the lines of 48 hours to respond wasn't good enough etc. No longer have that week to check as it gets passed on to relatives. Regarding some of the comments I got back in to watching speedway and going to the most local tracks (25 miles each way to Newport or 50 miles each way to Swindon) after watching the GP coverage on Sky at the end of the 1990s so without the GPs I may not have started attending tracks again. I know of a few others that were the same. I also regard the GP trips as my holiday time and have learned a lot more about European history and culture than I did when I was at school. There are some amazing places to visit than I would never have come across otherwise. I also feel lucky that I live in a time when it is very easy to travel throughout most of Europe unlike the previous generations who were commemorated in the VE celebrations last week and those in the cold war generation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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