Warsaw Gp Saturday 18th April

[PHILIPRISING]

THERE is the world of difference between a poor track and a dangerous one. In all honesty, how many speedway meetings do we see these days, at whatever level, on perfect tracks? And what constitutes perfect? One that is ultra smooth and so easy to ride that riders, especially of the calibre of those in the SGP, don't make mistakes?

Olsen says the easy option would be to pack the temporary tracks like concrete but they wouldn't provide much entertainment.

 

Jason Crump and Greg Hancock have said frequently that the early indoor tracks at Cardiff were borderline dangerous but then greatly improved.

 

I'm in no way suggesting that people who go to indoor events aren't short-changed and badly let down if meetings are cancelled. Of course they are. But for many the actual racing is only part of a bigger picture, a weekend away, the whole build up during the day, the comfort and atmosphere inside places like the Millennium, etc.

 

I did enquire about Cardiff ticket sales since Warsaw and there has been no discernible let up.

 

I still believe that if the starting gate had not malfunctioned and that either Ole Olsen or Tony Olsson had been Race Director (this is not a criticism of Phil Morris but he is new to the job and doesn't have, as yet, the respect that his predecessors brought to the role) the cancellation probably wouldn't have happened.

[Barrycuda]

Post removed

Edited June 6, 2015 by Barrycuda

[weatherwatcher]

I personaly have great faith in Phil Morris, he is up for this job, or he would not have been given it in the first place.

The whole fiasco boils down to more that Phil Morris being the issue, I think this has been coming to a head for quite some time and this was the straw that broke the camels back, so to speak.

[Barrycuda]

Post removed

Edited June 6, 2015 by Barrycuda

[The White Knight]

THERE is the world of difference between a poor track and a dangerous one. In all honesty, how many speedway meetings do we see these days, at whatever level, on perfect tracks? And what constitutes perfect? One that is ultra smooth and so easy to ride that riders, especially of the calibre of those in the SGP, don't make mistakes?

Olsen says the easy option would be to pack the temporary tracks like concrete but they wouldn't provide much entertainment.

 

Jason Crump and Greg Hancock have said frequently that the early indoor tracks at Cardiff were borderline dangerous but then greatly improved.

 

I'm in no way suggesting that people who go to indoor events aren't short-changed and badly let down if meetings are cancelled. Of course they are. But for many the actual racing is only part of a bigger picture, a weekend away, the whole build up during the day, the comfort and atmosphere inside places like the Millennium, etc.

 

I did enquire about Cardiff ticket sales since Warsaw and there has been no discernible let up.

 

I still believe that if the starting gate had not malfunctioned and that either Ole Olsen or Tony Olsson had been Race Director (this is not a criticism of Phil Morris but he is new to the job and doesn't have, as yet, the respect that his predecessors brought to the role) the cancellation probably wouldn't have happened.

One hell of a bloody big part I would have thought.

 

I can't see too many going to watch the Track laid, to partake of the local hospitality, shopping etc. Without the Racing there would be nobody going...... Nothing.

 

The Racing is the reason people attend - nothing else.

[oldace]

 

I still believe that if the starting gate had not malfunctioned and that either Ole Olsen or Tony Olsson had been Race Director (this is not a criticism of Phil Morris but he is new to the job and doesn't have, as yet, the respect that his predecessors brought to the role) the cancellation probably wouldn't have happened.

 

 

I posted the same thing a day or two after the GP and I seem to recall you refuting the suggestion back then. It was apparent that Phil, in his inexperience, was taken advantage of.

 

Bottom line is that if safety is the number 1 consideration then shut the whole sport down today. It may have slipped peoples notice but racing motorbikes in inherently dangerous on any kind of track and there will be plenty of occasions where conditions are far from ideal but as an entertainment industry, the show must go on, within reason.

 

If the GP riders want a 100% safe career then I would suggest they are in the wrong job.

 

Weak officials were the problem in Warsaw allowing riders to call the shots, it must never be allowed to happen again

[The White Knight]

 

 

I posted the same thing a day or two after the GP and I seem to recall you refuting the suggestion back then. It was apparent that Phil, in his inexperience, was taken advantage of.

 

Bottom line is that if safety is the number 1 consideration then shut the whole sport down today. It may have slipped peoples notice but racing motorbikes in inherently dangerous on any kind of track and there will be plenty of occasions where conditions are far from ideal but as an entertainment industry, the show must go on, within reason.

 

If the GP riders want a 100% safe career then I would suggest they are in the wrong job.

 

Weak officials were the problem in Warsaw allowing riders to call the shots, it must never be allowed to happen again

I agree - racing motorcycles is very dangerous indeed.

 

All the more reason that the Tracks should be prepared as well as is humanly possible - as you say the Sport is very dangerous. It ill behoves us to ask Riders to race on Tracks that add to that danger.

 

That, is unfortunately, the way I see these Temporary Tracks.

[oldace]

I agree - racing motorcycles is very dangerous indeed.

 

All the more reason that the Tracks should be prepared as well as is humanly possible - as you say the Sport is very dangerous. It ill behoves us to ask Riders to race on Tracks that add to that danger.

 

That, is unfortunately, the way I see these Temporary Tracks.

 

 

We are discussing Warsaw, not temporary tracks in general, and that was fine

[The White Knight]

 

 

We are discussing Warsaw, not temporary tracks in general, and that was fine

I don't think it was fine. I watched the Meeting on the Television and the Track was breaking up. You have admitted to ruts developing.

 

It could have only got more dangerous not less so.

[oldace]

 

 

I still believe that if the starting gate had not malfunctioned and that either Ole Olsen or Tony Olsson had been Race Director (this is not a criticism of Phil Morris but he is new to the job and doesn't have, as yet, the respect that his predecessors brought to the role) the cancellation probably wouldn't have happened.

 

So without actually saying it, and I appreciate your position probably prohibits you from doing so, the real reason for this call off is now clear (it was clear to some of us right from the off).

 

Of course, even in the white hot adrenaline fueled situation of the time everyone knew this could not be cited as a reason to cancel (green light starts are an accepted alternative to tapes as laid down in the rules) and so they decided to play the "rider safety" card. The gullible fans always fall for that one don't they, after all these guys risk their lives for our entertainment and of course we have never ridden a bike, yes lets go for that one, some fans are even stupid enough to disregard the evidence of their own eyes and swallow it hook line and sinker.

 

I suspect Phil Morris struggled with the transition from riders friend to race director, he probably offered a sympathetic ear to their gripes and that weakness would have been jumped on in a flash. With Olsen or Olsson the rebellion would likely have been extinguished before it even got a hold

 

Problem is where do we go from here. As indoor tracks go that was as good as any. Are we to assume then that there will be no Cardiff this year (there isn't for me anyway on the strength of Warsaw) or are the riders going to be complete hypocrites and ride on it as usual.

[PHILIPRISING]

 

So without actually saying it, and I appreciate your position probably prohibits you from doing so, the real reason for this call off is now clear (it was clear to some of us right from the off).

 

Of course, even in the white hot adrenaline fueled situation of the time everyone knew this could not be cited as a reason to cancel (green light starts are an accepted alternative to tapes as laid down in the rules) and so they decided to play the "rider safety" card. The gullible fans always fall for that one don't they, after all these guys risk their lives for our entertainment and of course we have never ridden a bike, yes lets go for that one, some fans are even stupid enough to disregard the evidence of their own eyes and swallow it hook line and sinker.

 

I suspect Phil Morris struggled with the transition from riders friend to race director, he probably offered a sympathetic ear to their gripes and that weakness would have been jumped on in a flash. With Olsen or Olsson the rebellion would likely have been extinguished before it even got a hold

 

Problem is where do we go from here. As indoor tracks go that was as good as any. Are we to assume then that there will be no Cardiff this year (there isn't for me anyway on the strength of Warsaw) or are the riders going to be complete hypocrites and ride on it as usual.

THERE will be no let up, nor should there be in my opinion, in staging SGP events in stadiums like those in Cardiff, Stockholm, Melbourne and, yes, Warsaw. These events take world speedway to a new and exciting level and as previously stated the riders love them. Obviously even more effort needs to go into the tracks themselves and that will take place.

 

It will, of course, be interesting to see the turn out for Cardiff this year. So far ticket sales have been up to expectations, even since Warsaw, but what I am sure BSI will be desperate to get across to those still undecided or likely to turn up on the day is positive proof in the days leading up to July 4 that the track is already race ready, tried and tested beyond reproach.

 

I have always bowed to riders' opinion regarding track conditions. After all, what do I know? But like many on here have seen enough meetings over too many years to have a decent idea about what is safe or not and from my trackside view in Warsaw I have certainly seen worse. But then nobody expected me to go out and ride a speedway bike on it.

 

However, I wouldn't say that the Warsaw track was as good as any, whether at Cardiff, Copenhagen or Stockholm. But it was far from the worse.

Edited May 8, 2015 by PHILIPRISING

[racers and royals]

What still puzzles me. some 3 weeks after the event was how "convenient" the "kicking off " happened at 12 heats when some would have known a meeting can be called(I would be very surprised if the riders would have been aware of that without asking).

I just wonder what would have happened if those with the authority to do so had said " right lads in 5 mins time the 2 minutes goes on for heat 13.

Ok the riders might not have appeared- but at least the fans could have seen that at least efforts were made to complete the meeting.

[theflyingkiwi]

As soon as Phil Morris let Pedersen speak to the referee after Doyle moved at the start the riders knew they could have their way. 2 Minutes should have been put on then and then straight away after the track grades had finished after heat 12.

[bigcatdiary]

What still puzzles me. some 3 weeks after the event was how "convenient" the "kicking off " happened at 12 heats when some would have known a meeting can be called(I would be very surprised if the riders would have been aware of that without asking).

I just wonder what would have happened if those with the authority to do so had said " right lads in 5 mins time the 2 minutes goes on for heat 13.

Ok the riders might not have appeared- but at least the fans could have seen that at least efforts were made to complete the meeting.

No they wouldn't, the bloody clock had packed up by then as well.

[The White Knight]

 

So without actually saying it, and I appreciate your position probably prohibits you from doing so, the real reason for this call off is now clear (it was clear to some of us right from the off).

 

Of course, even in the white hot adrenaline fueled situation of the time everyone knew this could not be cited as a reason to cancel (green light starts are an accepted alternative to tapes as laid down in the rules) and so they decided to play the "rider safety" card. The gullible fans always fall for that one don't they, after all these guys risk their lives for our entertainment and of course we have never ridden a bike, yes lets go for that one, some fans are even stupid enough to disregard the evidence of their own eyes and swallow it hook line and sinker.

 

I suspect Phil Morris struggled with the transition from riders friend to race director, he probably offered a sympathetic ear to their gripes and that weakness would have been jumped on in a flash. With Olsen or Olsson the rebellion would likely have been extinguished before it even got a hold

 

Problem is where do we go from here. As indoor tracks go that was as good as any. Are we to assume then that there will be no Cardiff this year (there isn't for me anyway on the strength of Warsaw) or are the riders going to be complete hypocrites and ride on it as usual.

I know I will get in to trouble off you Oldace - but I simply do not believe that the trouble was caused by the 'Green Light' Starts. The 'Green Light' Start is covered in the very Rules and Regulations of Speedway itself. The Riders would have known that. To fly in the face of the Rules and Regulations is foolish in the extreme. You can't win. 'Green Light' Starts have been part and parcel of Speedway for years.

 

Whilst I will admit that the 'Green Light' didn't help the situation - I believe there was far more to it than that.

 

Whether we will ever find out the real cause of the abandonment is another matter. Only time will tell.

[BWitcher]

 

 

The Racing is the reason people attend - nothing else.

 

Except you have absolutely nothing to back that statement up with.

[The White Knight]

 

Except you have absolutely nothing to back that statement up with.

Do you go to watch the pre Meeting entertainment like. :shock: :rofl:

[BWitcher]

Do you go to watch the pre Meeting entertainment like. :shock: :rofl:

 

What is the attendance at Cardiff?

 

What is the attendance at any other meeting in the UK?

 

What was the attendance at GP meets in the UK prior to Cardiff?

[The White Knight]

 

What is the attendance at Cardiff?

 

What is the attendance at any other meeting in the UK?

 

What was the attendance at GP meets in the UK prior to Cardiff?

How about you tell me?

 

EDIT: Oops - I can answer the first question.

 

Less than the number that used to go to Wembley years ago. I hope that helps.

Edited May 8, 2015 by The White Knight

[f-s-p]

I know I will get in to trouble off you Oldace - but I simply do not believe that the trouble was caused by the 'Green Light' Starts. The 'Green Light' Start is covered in the very Rules and Regulations of Speedway itself. The Riders would have known that. To fly in the face of the Rules and Regulations is foolish in the extreme. You can't win. 'Green Light' Starts have been part and parcel of Speedway for years.

 

Whilst I will admit that the 'Green Light' didn't help the situation - I believe there was far more to it than that.

 

Whether we will ever find out the real cause of the abandonment is another matter. Only time will tell.

Reading rider interviews after Warsaw, many tell of their dislike of the green light start. Dont matter if its in the book, like KK said its never happened before, so why do it for the first time in a SGP.