Warsaw Gp Saturday 18th April

[waiheke1]

Would add also that Greg and Nicki may not have been "ring leaders" but rather spokespeople for the riders due to their experience.

I seem to recall Ivan mauger being accused of stirring up the riders over an unfit track at the 81 inter continental final, but penhall came out subsequently and said the riders had asked him to be their spokesperson. In that meeting the riders voted 14-2 to abandon the meeting,but the meeting continued. One of the two hqppenned to be ole Olsen, who was also co promoter of the meeting!

[oldace]

Would add also that Greg and Nicki may not have been "ring leaders" but rather spokespeople for the riders due to their experience.

I seem to recall Ivan mauger being accused of stirring up the riders over an unfit track at the 81 inter continental final, but penhall came out subsequently and said the riders had asked him to be their spokesperson. In that meeting the riders voted 14-2 to abandon the meeting,but the meeting continued. One of the two hqppenned to be ole Olsen, who was also co promoter of the meeting!

 

And there was a problem with the tapes that day too

[Jonimac]

E I Addio

A really good post, simply sticking to the facts. Of which there are not many at the moment.
Having ploughed through all the pages of this thread, much of which reminds me of being down the pub with my mates and having having a good rant after at least 5 pints - plenty of emotional opinions but not a lot of clear facts.
Don't get me wrong. I like that, and think that is one of the plus points of the forum, where you can let off a bit of steam, and talk about your favourite sport.

However, as far as I can see, the facts are

(1) The riders went into a room for a meeting.
(2) The FIM Jury called the result after heat 12 due to track conditions.

As the FIM jury didnt actually ride the tracks for 12 heats, I think you can reasonably infer that the riders have given them their opinion on it's safety.
Safety is not just about looking at what has happened over the previous 12 heats.
It is about what potentially might happen over the remaining heats.
I accept that the TV pictures suggested it was reasonable, as did the commentators. You can ignore rider interviews (which seemed to be played on the stadium PA system too), as they would have to be very careful about talking openly about safety on a temporary track.

If the riders have insisted it is not safe, then surely as speedway fans we should accept this?
I imagine this acceptance would get more and more difficult depending on how much you have shelled out to get there from the UK or USA !
Personally, I get Eurosport free with my Sky subscription, and I had to walk from the fridge, wih my beer in my hand, all the way to the sofa to watch it.

If I could hope for one thing, it is that this is a turning point for the GP. If you want to be ambitious about bringing the sport into eyecatching venues, then the track has to be made to catch the eye !
Unless it is weather related, no excuses should now be acceptable.

Edited April 22, 2015 by Jonimac

[BWitcher]

I accept that the TV pictures suggested it was reasonable, as did the commentators. You can ignore rider interviews (which seemed to be played on the stadium PA system too), as they would have to be very careful about talking openly about safety on a temporary track.

 

 

 

Since when, ever, have riders been quiet about track conditions. If a track is dangerous they ALWAYS bring it up in interviews.

[Midland Red]

E I Addio

 

A really good post, simply sticking to the facts. Of which there are not many at the moment.

Having ploughed through all the pages of this thread, much of which reminds me of being down the pub with my mates and having having a good rant after at least 5 pints - plenty of emotional opinions but not a lot of clear facts.

Don't get me wrong. I like that, and think that is one of the plus points of the forum, where you can let off a bit of steam, and talk about your favourite sport.

 

However, as far as I can see, the facts are

 

(1) The riders went into a room for a meeting.

(2) The FIM Jury called the result after heat 12 due to track conditions.

 

As the FIM jury didnt actually ride the tracks for 12 heats, I think you can reasonably infer that the riders have given them their opinion on it's safety.

Safety is not just about looking at what has happened over the previous 12 heats.

It is about what potentially might happen over the remaining heats.

I accept that the TV pictures suggested it was reasonable, as did the commentators. You can ignore rider interviews (which seemed to be played on the stadium PA system too), as they would have to be very careful about talking openly about safety on a temporary track.

 

If the riders have insisted it is not safe, then surely as speedway fans we should accept this?

I imagine this acceptance would get more and more difficult depending on how much you have shelled out to get there from the UK or USA !

Personally, I get Eurosport free with my Sky subscription, and I had to walk from the fridge, wih my beer in my hand, all the way to the sofa to watch it.

 

If I could hope for one thing, it is that this is a turning point for the GP. If you want to be ambitious about bringing the sport into eyecatching venues, then the track has to be made to catch the eye !

Unless it is weather related, no excuses should now be acceptable.

 

Totally agree, 100% with you, Jonimac

[New Science]

Since when, ever, have riders been quiet about track conditions. If a track is dangerous they ALWAYS bring it up in interviews.

Except at Warsaw where there were no interviews ! or not a mention on anyones Twitter account the same Twitter that the riders can't usually keep off. Bit of gagging going on ?

[theflyingkiwi]

This is taken from the latest article on the SGP website about Zagars win on Saturday night.

 

'Even some of the most seasoned SGP stars had never started races without having tapes in front of them, which left them understandably unsettled.'

 

In my opinion having been there on Saturday night and having watched it through again twice, if the tapes had been working then the Grand Prix would have reached completion or at least till heat 20. It was plain to see that some of the riders were not happy with the green light start as for some it took away the advantage that they got from the gate. When Bomber can out trap you, you know your in trouble. Combine this with a CHALLENGING track, it shouldn't have been such a surprise that some of the riders wanted this meeting called off.

[Grand Central]

This is all about the starts.

Everything else is smokescreen.

[oldace]

This is all about the starts.

Everything else is smokescreen.

 

Of course it is. Like a few of us have been saying all along while others preferred not to believe the evidence of their own eyses and go along with the unfit track cobblers.

 

The green light start should not have been an issue though and it is clearly laid out in the rules as an alternative when the gate malfunctions.

 

Of course the reality is it ultimately comes down to weak officials allowing the riders to decide if a meeting carries on or not.

[racers and royals]

Google translation of Sportowefakty article today.

 

One of Gniezno law firms have already sent the first request for payment to the Polish Association Motorowemu on the organization LOTTO Warsaw Speedway Grand Prix of Poland.

Law Office Klejborowski / Bernaciak of Gniezno is the first that sent the request for payment PZM on the organization LOTTO Warsaw Speedway Grand Prix of Poland at the National Stadium. Polish Motor Union maintains that he is not guilty of scandal organizational and company blames Ole Olsen, who was responsible for preparing the track. However, the Dane denies the allegations, claiming that the criticism is unjustified. Why the operation of the Gniezno glass office? - To date, we have signed up to a few dozen fans and still call the successive interested. Interestingly, the people are so upset that they do not heed the ability to recover costs and relatively low amounts. They feel deeply offended by the attitude of the organizer of this event. Shortly after the event, we have a legal analysis of the case and in our opinion, there are grounds for an investigation by the organizer, ie. PZMot damages including reimbursement of tickets and justified cases, the reimbursement of travel costs. After PZMot the moment of buying a ticket every fan has concluded an individual contract, which definitely is not fulfilled - Klejborowski attorney said.








In the media there was already prepared information about collective lawsuit against the organizers of the Grand Prix at the National Stadium. As it turns out, Gniezno firm has chosen a different path proceedings against PZM. - We would like to point out that in contrast to the emerging media suggestions, yet we do not anticipate filing a class action lawsuit, but we intend to act on behalf of each client individually. It will streamline and speed up the whole process. Thanks to our office yesterday sent the first request for payment. PZMot fans sell tickets, which outlined, that is the organizer of this event, and should take responsibility and pay back the money. Because fans bought tickets to the event, including - as everyone knows - 23 races. After all, if the fans knew that the watch only 12 races (in addition to the falls and without tape home - which in a sense have an impact on the outcome of sporting competition), it is probably most of them never would decide to buy a ticket. Important matter is that the cause of the interrupt event was force majeure, which would allow the organizer to break free from potential liability. It's hard to blame the organizer, when it rains, so the track is not suitable for use (as in sport speedway is not anything special, after all). In this particular case, as indicated by the organizer and evidence, the cause of the interrupt event was human error, which consists in the wrong orientation track surface - Klejborowski added.

Gnieźnieńska office emphasizes that the main aspect of the case is not that poor preparation for Saturday race track. - It is immaterial that, according to the position of PZMot, it does not track paving PZMot prepared or provided a tape home. According to the law because it corresponds directly for the operation of all persons and entities with which organizes the event. We are convinced that the organizer at least for the sake of their image and for the sake of the fans slag adequately atone for it spoiled holiday. In the absence of an adequate response, we will be forced to refer matters on behalf of clients before the court, to enforce the claims asserted. Importantly, customers who have applied to our office are willing to devote their time to pursue their claims before the court as well - patron Klejborowski ended.

[BWitcher]

Except at Warsaw where there were no interviews ! or not a mention on anyones Twitter account the same Twitter that the riders can't usually keep off. Bit of gagging going on ?

 

Yes there were.

 

The silence only started after their little meeting.

[Jonimac]

I am intrigued by Polish Law.

Apparently in compensation, they are requesting that "slag adequately atone"

They also states that there is legal precedent, as "Holder was rubbish, and he rides that terrible Poole track all the time".
They further added that Ole Olsen will play the next Bond villain. [this paragraph may not be true]

Edited April 22, 2015 by Jonimac

[DutchGrasstrack]

BSI released another statement:

http://speedwaygp.com/news/article/4063/update-from-bsi-speedway

[Humphrey Appleby]

BSI released another statement:

http://speedwaygp.com/news/article/4063/update-from-bsi-speedway

What an absolute load of guff...

[SCB]

 

 

Following the 2008 German SGP - and working with track specialists and blue-chip construction companies – procedures were put in place to minimise the risks associated with the installation of temporary tracks. These procedures are carried out in the months before each event and include: regular stadium inspections; detailed construction drawings and plans; and quality control measures with regards to sourcing track materials and moisture content monitoring.

For the record, quality control measures for moisture content is piling the shale up in Newport docks and covering it in a tarpaulin.

[spook]

This is all about the starts.

Everything else is smokescreen.

 

 

 

Of course it is. Like a few of us have been saying all along while others preferred not to believe the evidence of their own eyses and go along with the unfit track cobblers.

 

The green light start should not have been an issue though and it is clearly laid out in the rules as an alternative when the gate malfunctions.

 

Of course the reality is it ultimately comes down to weak officials allowing the riders to decide if a meeting carries on or not.

 

The starts are definitely a large part of it...... but you cannot deny that the track was starting to become an issue........... watch heat 10 in particular & pay careful attention to Nicki's wheels going into bend one off the start....... and then Chris Holder lap 3 bends 1 & 2 ............ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzA4LclvvIE&t=115m50s

 

this was the fourth time in 3 heats bend one was showing it was an issue......... ruts causing issues like this off the start can not be ignored ...... and clearly what happened to Holder was fairly savage....................and then 2 heats later in heat 12 it was going to cause an issue for Batch which would see him end up on the deck (whether he should have saved it or not)

[oldace]

For the record, quality control measures for moisture content is piling the shale up in Newport docks and covering it in a tarpaulin.

 

Yes but it is stored in a scientifically proven pyramid fashion don't forget

[spook]

BSI released another statement:

 

http://speedwaygp.com/news/article/4063/update-from-bsi-speedway

 

 

For the record, quality control measures for moisture content is piling the shale up in Newport docks and covering it in a tarpaulin.

I get their statement and what they are trying to remind us of.................. but whether they like it or not the restaged Ullevi & Gelsenkirchen should be seen as failures which cost fans a lot of money that they never saw again...... so in fact that is now 4 out of 51 nights on a temporary track which have been disasters (7.84%)

 

They try to assure us with the care that is taken but I have serious reservations about what should be a continuing scientific approach

 

edit: and once again they fail to mention to the fans what is the situation with refunds for Saturday

Edited April 22, 2015 by spook

[Fromafar]

What an absolute load of guff...

Agree total arrogance (not one mention about refunds whether entitled or not).fans just expected to forget about as it was just a blip in a otherwise perfect sport,Aye Right.!!!!!!

[oldace]

Agree total arrogance (not one mention about refunds whether entitled or not).fans just expected to forget about as it was just a blip in a otherwise perfect sport,Aye Right.!!!!!!

 

I would imagine BSI are not in a position to talk about refunds. The PZM were the event organizers and your contract is with them, not BSI.