Warsaw Gp Saturday 18th April

[Agrotron]

So any explanations for this joke yet any apologies or names being touted to blame?

[BWitcher]

So any explanations for this joke yet any apologies or names being touted to blame?

 

Greg and Nicki weren't winning.

[spook]

Even without all the problems, a GP meeting is far too slow moving.

 

Why, when there is a simple false start, do the riders not go straight back to the tapes? Why are they allowed to go back to the pits and start fiddling around with their bikes , and then a new 2 minute timer starts? They should be given something like 45 seconds to get back to the tapes, and not allowed back to the pits.

 

Likewise with a 1st bend faller. When they are clear from the track and everything is deemed OK with the air fence etc, the other riders should be ready to go straight away.

 

I lost count exactly, but it took something like 90 minutes for about 7 or 8 heats. Not all of that was down to the starting gate nonsence.

 

Why, given the prolonged nature of Saturdays meeting, was there still a track grading break after the first and second round of heats. Surely the grading could have been done whilst the whole meeting was delayed due tot he other issues?

 

Why would anyone other than a hardcore speedway fan sit thorough that on TV? I always let the meeting run for an hour before watching it on catch up, so I can fast forward through all the pointless delays. Watching the whole thing live on Satuday would have been purgetory.

It does all need to speed up and I dont see why 2 mins is needed after unsatisfactory start..... 1 min at most........... maybe the general delays were due to a new race director and he will improve

the track grading I believe is firmly set out in the FIM regulations

 

 

 

Which brings me back to the point of there being more to this than meets the eye.

 

If the track truly was so dangerous, as said we would all have seen it. The commentators would have seen it. Tatum, Nicholls even Pearson would have noticed it. Yet they hadn't even remotely considered the possibility that the meeting was going to get called off.

 

Had it been so dangerous I am sure there would have been an immediate apology as well.

 

However, when you have a situation where suddenly riders are refusing to ride on a perfectly raceable track where does that leave the organisers? Point the finger at the riders and this is going to happen again... remember, there is another company lurking, waiting to muscle in on the scene... certain riders have already effectively jumped ship..

 

So basically they are left in a situation of having to try and apologise and take the flak for something that they haven't caused. They didn't cancel the meeting. The riders went on strike.,

im agreeing with a lot of what you are saying bwitcher but I do think it was a case of 'raceable at that point' more than 'perfectly raceable' .... and that the track was disintegrating faster than we usually see ................... the riders were the final nail in the coffin, but all involved seemed to play their part and maybe if just one of the issues had been dealt with smoothly we wouldnt have seen the end result.

 

BSI farmed it out to PZM ...... they forced them to use speed sport ....... already this covers the track build and the tapes......... and for that they should most definitely be holding their hands up

Edited April 21, 2015 by spook

[SteveLyric2]

Why are people saying there has been no apology?

 

BSI have apologised to fans in their statement on www.speedwaygp.com and are 'understanding of the FIM Jury's decision to declare the meeting'.

 

It seems clear that further investigations are taking place - but whether fans will ever get the full story, rather than whatever the different players decide to give the media - will remain to be seen.

[stratton]

yes the starts were fair for all..... but the starts werent normal and the guy who does not adapt is dead in the water..............

Fridays practice was not fine at all and clearly the riders were unhappy............. I think we can roughly imagine the conversations that were taking place between riders and officials and the promises being made about the track improving

There is no doubt that they should have carried on and completed the meeting and at that point didnt have enough of an argument ............... but I think it is fair to say that it was not the 'normal' night of racing that most of them would have wanted in Rd1................. unfortunately they were allowed to pull rider power, if they had been dealt with better they would have had a reminder that adapting could be the key word in any round........... as others have mentioned we also have issues with what constitutes a dangerous surface now

I heard from a Polish lad that i work with on Friday, that there had been problems with the track.Maybe promises were made to the riders that thing's would improve who knows.?

[BWitcher]

I heard from a Polish lad that i work with on Friday, that there had been problems with the track.Maybe promises were made to the riders that thing's would improve who knows.?

 

There were problems in practice on Friday Sid. Overnight work was then done, the riders practiced on Saturday morning and all said it was fine.

[The White Knight]

 

 

Well it appears you might be. It may have escaped your notice but the riders are not the ones who have been shafted here. They were given a superb venue and a perfectly adequate (going by the way they raced on it I would say pretty good, but we will stick with adequate) track on which to ply their trade yet for some inexplicable reason they elected to stage a mass walkout.

 

Starting by green light can't be the reason, it is a minor inconvenience but nothing more. The race track was fine so what was the agenda ?

 

As it stands, although I hope the riders are severely punished and at the very least lose any prize monies from this event, these clowns haven't lost out on anything with their antics. The riders almost certainly won't be gagged, in fact they are probably now realizing the seriousness of what they have done and are keeping schtumm in case legal action is instigated.

What about those who may have wanted to continue to race? Or are you suggesting that 'Bomber' wanted the Meeting off? I would seriously doubt if he did - he was doing great. You should not penalise the innocent (I know I am assuming here) with the guilty.

 

Even without all the problems, a GP meeting is far too slow moving.

 

Why, when there is a simple false start, do the riders not go straight back to the tapes? Why are they allowed to go back to the pits and start fiddling around with their bikes , and then a new 2 minute timer starts? They should be given something like 45 seconds to get back to the tapes, and not allowed back to the pits.

 

Likewise with a 1st bend faller. When they are clear from the track and everything is deemed OK with the air fence etc, the other riders should be ready to go straight away.

 

I lost count exactly, but it took something like 90 minutes for about 7 or 8 heats. Not all of that was down to the starting gate nonsence.

 

Why, given the prolonged nature of Saturdays meeting, was there still a track grading break after the first and second round of heats. Surely the grading could have been done whilst the whole meeting was delayed due tot he other issues?

 

Why would anyone other than a hardcore speedway fan sit thorough that on TV? I always let the meeting run for an hour before watching it on catch up, so I can fast forward through all the pointless delays. Watching the whole thing live on Satuday would have been purgetory.

Not just me then - it cuts out the adverts as well.

[spook]

I thought it was weird we were quoted UK law at the briefings on both days... But it was a PZM event and tickets were sold by Kupbilet, so different set of rules. Or might be.

 

hey FSP ......

so that covers their 'right' to cancel ....... but it doesnt cover terms of refunds

 

 

Silly comment - try reading people's posts properly.

 

Who has suggested that BSI are not responsible or shouldn't be called to account, but far too many people today run around demanding apologies that are meaningless. I couldn't care less what BSI say, or what damage limitation they try to do - they clearly do not learn lessons from their mistakes or lack of supervision, or they're simply not up to the job required.

I read your post just fine Humphrey....... it seemed to be quite full of the usual agenda

 

an apology is not meaningless.... an apology by its very nature is a statement of intent.......... in a situation like this it is the natural opening statement in what is a one way conversation with the viewers/readers...... the fans in the stadium and the fans at home were left in the dark and had been cheated out of normal service.... this is not a situation to stay quiet, consult the lawyers and offer hollow regrets a couple of days later

 

 

 

I am certain that there could be a related discussion here somewhere for you Humphrey, as to whether BSI should still be the license holder or not, but this wasnt what I was talking about

[BWitcher]

 

im agreeing with a lot of what you are saying bwitcher but I do think it was a case of 'raceable at that point' more than 'perfectly raceable' ....

 

I see your point, but as you said earlier, go watch heats 9 through 12 again, try to put to one side what you 'know' and picture it like any other meeting.. you won't see any indication that the meeting is about to be called off, riders are going at it hammer and tongs.

 

The one who fell, Batchelor, he wasn't fit enough to hold onto the bike anyway, by his own admission.

[oldace]

What about those who may have wanted to continue to race? Or are you suggesting that 'Bomber' wanted the Meeting off? I would seriously doubt if he did - he was doing great. You should not penalise the innocent (I know I am assuming here) with the guilty.

 

Not just me then - it cuts out the adverts as well.

 

 

Those that wanted to race simply had to be ready to race when their next heat came round. If they chose to follow, sheep like, then they are as guilty as the others

[The White Knight]

 

 

Those that wanted to race simply had to be ready to race when their next heat came round. If they chose to follow, sheep like, then they are as guilty as the others

We must agree to differ.

[f-s-p]

 

hey FSP ......

so that covers their 'right' to cancel ....... but it doesnt cover terms of refunds

You are right. But it clearly states they (PZM) have the right to make changes in the program. So IMO once you had entered the stadium, you were basically only quaranteed that at one point you were expected to leave.

[RPNY]

Well I flew all the way from NYC for this one and I'm still struggling to believe what I witnessed. EVERYTHING was in place for this to be the greatest event and therefore advertisement for Speedway in decades. But yet again it was a total cock up. Someones head HAS to roll for this, or everyone involved will just keep thinking, oh it's ok we can get away with this.

First off, how was there not a second starting gate? This is surely one of the most obvious things when organizing a GP. That is a school boy error of the highest order. Secondly no one took command of the situation and the delays/ref'ing decisions were an insult to the paying public. After heat 4 it was obvious what decision had to be made. We're going on the green light boys, not ideal but it's THE SAME FOR EVERYBODY so don't want to hear any complaints. As for the track, no it wasn't perfect but we've all seen much much worse. That track was race-able and if the riders really did refuse shame on them. They had 56k people watching them, many of which were new fans and they just refused. DISGUSTING. People can say about safety etc, that track was race able and they all know it. To then come out on a lap of honor with Gollob and tweet about how great the fans were, that was just added insult to injury.

The series will go on, this will all be swept under the carpet, but many many fans will be switched off from this and I truly believe Cardiff, Stockholm and probably even Melbourne will have their attendances seriously effected by this.

[Humphrey Appleby]

So any explanations for this joke yet any apologies or names being touted to blame?

Everyone's passing the buck, aren't they? The PZM have said the track and starting gate were the responsibility of SpeedSport who were forced upon them by BSI, SpeedSport say the track was signed-off by the FIM Jury, and BSI also seem to be pointing the blame at the FIM Jury. Of course, the FIM Jury is probably the one element that can't or won't be sued because all parties need FIM blessing in future. All very convenient...

Edited April 21, 2015 by Humphrey Appleby

[Steve_R]

They may have the rights to make changes, but it's a stretch that to say they have the right to significantly reduce the number of heats over what was advertised without becoming liable to refund those who have paid to get in. There is probably all kinds of legal cases covering this sort of stuff, and I doubt there is a straightforward answer. Perhaps we have a lawyer here who can shed some light on this...

[SCB]

They may have the rights to make changes, but it's a stretch that to say they have the right to significantly reduce the number of heats over what was advertised without becoming liable to refund those who have paid to get in. There is probably all kinds of legal cases covering this sort of stuff, and I doubt there is a straightforward answer. Perhaps we have a lawyer here who can shed some light on this...

In UK law that would quite simply be an unfair term. It's why for UK events they have to say at which heat a refund (or partial as in the case of league racing) is due. And TBH, even that could be deemed unfair. Fair is what any fair minded person would deem acceptable.

[spook]

So what is usually the small print for Polish meetings? In a country where the fans are known for rioting I would have thought that their 'fair' wouldnt be too disimilar to ours .... if not more favourable to the fan?

[A ORLOV]

Everyone's passing the buck, aren't they? The PZM have said the track and starting gate were the responsibility of SpeedSport who were forced upon them by BSI, SpeedSport say the track was signed-off by the FIM Jury, and BSI also seem to be pointing the blame at the FIM Jury. Of course, the FIM Jury is probably the one element that can't or won't be sued because all parties need FIM blessing in future. All very convenient...

But whoever is responsible for the appointment of members of the FIM Jury could be sued for the incompetence of the people they appointed, if it turns out the jury were at fault.

Edited April 21, 2015 by A ORLOV

[theflyingkiwi]

I think that the riders may come to regret this decision in due course. What should have been an advert for the sport turned into a complete farce. In my opinion the riders were allowed to get away with all this because how weak the officials were at the weekend. I have seen on twitter from those in the pits saying don't blame Phil Morris he is in no way to blame but if he had put his foot down on the issue with the tapes, especially the way that Pedersen effectively had Doyle excluded, would it have ended up being cancelled?

 

If the sport had the following of football - would it have mattered that it was cancelled? Unfortunately speedway is a dying sport and there was no good will from the riders to carry on with that meeting. I could understand if it was the third or fourth running of the Warsaw GP and there had been problems then the riders should make a stand but surely they know when they sign up to a GP the potential problems with man made tracks?

 

Most of all I feel sorry for Gollob who has been severely let down by all those in charge of the meeting on Saturday. A true legend of our sport deserved a better send off considering the majority of the tickets to the GP were sold using his name.

[Humphrey Appleby]

But whoever is responsible for the appointment of members of the FIM Jury could be sued for the incompetence of the people they appointed, if it turns out the jury were at fault.

 

Yes, but the FIM control the SGP rights so I'd doubt BSI would want to sue, whilst the PZM are reliant on the FIM for sanctioning and awarding them other world championship events. I'd also not be surprised if national federations undertake not to take legal action against the FIM as a condition of membership.

 

The three jury members can be made scapegoats, and no-one will shed any tears for them.