Warsaw Gp Saturday 18th April

[pointsmeanplayoffs]

As one of the 50,000 or so paying punters in Warsaw the other night, I can honestly say I am glad if there was some kind of 'riders revolution' and that they refused to ride on that track Why should they go flat out into the corners not knowing what's gonna happen? They are not performing seals, they are professional sportsman who are aware and accept a certain level of risk inherent in Speedway. They cannot be expected to just put EVERYTHING at risk. This sport is dangerous enough.

 

The track was dangerous, but the starting tapes were embarrassing. On the biggest stage of all, the very foundations of what's needed for a speedway meeting were not in place which is completely unacceptable. Who is ultimately responsible for this? Ole Olsen and his gang? What they created was not 'fit for purpose'.

 

It was just completely unacceptable.

 

Why was there no back up start tapes?!? FFS come on you have 50,000 people coming, a pretty big TV audience and you don't think of this?!? There was about 5 different replacement set of tapes laid out ready on the centre green just in case of riders breaking the tapes but no back up posts/magnets?

 

Yes I'm angry, but my over-riding feeling is dejection. This Warsaw GP should have been an opportunity to showcase our sport, but instead all it did was highlight problems symptomatic of 'a mickey mouse sport' which is heart breaking as I love speedway and stand up for it all the time against constant mockery from fans of other sports.

 

I'm not sure I can defend my sport anymore after such events : (

Edited April 20, 2015 by pointsmeanplayoffs

[BWitcher]

 

I don't know ... a packed out Deepdale, Brammel Lane, Ricoh or Stadium MK would create a hell of an atmosphere

 

Yeah, your right.

 

More people would rather be at a packed out Deepdale than a packed out Wembley.

[Humphrey Appleby]

THINK you are wrong ... Manilla has a fine track but do you honestly think riders get a bigger buzz about appearing there than the Friends Arena in Stockholm?

Let's not attempt to distract attention from the fiasco in Warsaw, not that I think there's much scope to hold a GP in the Philippines...

 

I'm sure the average fan appreciates a big venue, but I'm sure they'd also like to see a complete meeting on a reasonable track. If the series organisers can't deliver on that, then the sport is not being well served by going to these places.

 

There have now been too many failures to claim it's an aberration - it's becoming a regular occurrence. And Warsaw will have been far more damaging to the sport's reputation than previous failures.

Have actually spoken to Paul Bellamy this morning and at the moment he is not in a position to say anything until getting the green light from the IMG legal bods who not surprisingly are already going through everything with a fine tooth comb.

No doubt working out how they can wriggle out of any blame, and preferably put the blame on someone else.

Edited April 20, 2015 by Humphrey Appleby

[fullbore]

 

they'd also like to see a complete meeting on a reasonable track.

Frequently not seen a permanent venues either.

 

Far too many gate'n'go 4 lap processions where you might as well have the finish at the start of turn 3 on the first lap.

 

Niamh

[E I Addio]

So spend a little more time getting things right, get in these venues a little earlier, unless the powers that be are looking to scrimp a bit and lay it in the shortest time possible to make maximum profit, in which case its false economy. Give the track time to bed in, then you won't have the problem. As for the start gate shambles, make sure you have 2 of everything, not just a starting gate mechanisum. To me that looked like a brand new start gate mechanisum at Warsaw. they need to be checked and checked again.. give the poles a wipe before every race. You really need to sort this, as its making Speedway look a laughing stock. The venues maybe nice, but if the stage is not there your wasting your time.

 

 

I cant believe it. Three posts on the trot I have agreed with Starman. Good post anyway mate

 

Some people really don't understand.

 

We keep getting quotes along the lines of "We want the best race tracks..", "People don't want to see temporary tracks"

 

NO THEY DON'T.

 

 

 

That's not quite what's being said. There is no reason why a temporary track cannot be a good track. it is a matter of putting the right amount of time into the track prep.

[BWitcher]

 

Let's not attempt to distract attention from the fiasco in Warsaw.

 

I'm sure the average fan appreciates a big venue, but I'm sure they'd also like to see a complete meeting on a reasonable track. If the series organisers can't deliver on that, then the sport is not being well served by going to these places.

 

 

 

The riders didn't deliver on that.

 

In the past, when meetings have been called off due to the track being 'dangerous', it's in most cases been pretty obvious. Riders have been struggling to ride, let alone race.

 

It seems to be escaping peoples attention, that wasn't the case here. There had been some good racing. The two heats prior to the track suddenly being too 'dangerous' to ride had produced good racing with riders going hard at it.

Edited April 20, 2015 by BWitcher

[spook]

 

They might be able to call the result after 12 heats, but the refund policy may be different.

It certainly looks like it is different

 

FIM rules clearly state the result can be awarded after either 12 or 16 heats if the meeting is ended before 20

 

 

http://www.fim-live.com/en/sport/regulations-and-documents/speedway-grand-prix/

 

077.1.4.1

 

2. If the meeting is interrupted before heat 20 is accomplished and the

remaining heats cannot be completed, then the race points scored at

the completion of heat 12 or 16 (whichever applies) will determine the

result.

In the event of a tie in the points scored at the completion of Heat 12

or 16 (whichever applies) the finishing order will be determined by the

formula set out in Art. 077.9.2.

 

 

 

SGP ticket terms and conditions for Cardiff & Malilla (conditions for other GP's not shown) state:

 

 

http://www.speedwaygp.com/ticket_terms?hc_location=ufi

 

Should the event be interrupted after the completion of heat 16 no refund of the ticket price or any additional expenditure shall be made to the ticket holder.

FIM Speedway World Championship Grand Prix Regulations state that the race points scored at the completion of heat 16 will be sufficient to determine the result and the meeting can be deemed complete.

 

I dont see how they are able to refuse refunding the fans

[stratton]

Spot on.

I would never EVER call a rider greedy, i have never had the guts to ride a speedway bike surely the riders at this LEVEL deserve a sound track with a starting gate.?

No reason why any body should go to see supposedly world class racing on a substandard track. The riders have taken control now the paying public should take control and make it clear that they are no longer going to pay to see sub-standard tracks. Temporary tracks can be made to work, they have been made to work. No reason at all why with a bit of forethought and effort Cardiff and the rest should not have decent racing surfaces

 

I really don't understand why anybody should want to pay to see an event of GP status on a track full of ruts. People are making a lot of money out of these events, which I don't begrudge, but the fans are expect to be given value for money..

Top post.

[Humphrey Appleby]

It seems to be escaping peoples attention, that wasn't the case here. There had been some good racing. The two heats prior to the track suddenly being too 'dangerous' to ride had produced good racing with riders going hard at it.

 

Let's assume the track was rideable, if indeed not raceable. Why would the riders not want to ride, what are their reasons?

 

One can only assume there are either poor relations with the organisers for some reason, or the organisers have employed a bolshie bunch to provide the entertainment. Either way, the buck stops with the organisers.

[stratton]

THERE will understandably be many like you and that is the long term damage.

 

As for some suggesting this is all about greed, it isn't. Since John Postlethwaute first came on board the intention has been to elevate the status of the World Championship, to run in stadiums that provide first class spectator facilities and are generally cited in big cities that have also lots of other attractions.

 

Ask any rider whether he would rather complete at Cardiff or Coventry? A Swede would he prefer Malilla or Stockholm. And for the Aussies to have a round at the Etihad.

 

Staging these meetings is also a huge financial risk for the organisers.

 

What is undeniable is that ultimately providing the riders with a stage on which they can perform at the highest level is paramount. Of course mistakes, human error, can be made. What is unforgivable is if the same mistakes are being made and whatever the extenuating circumstances, which inevitable exist, that appears to have been the case in Warsaw.

 

Have actually spoken to Paul Bellamy this morning and at the moment he is not in a position to say anything until getting the green light from the IMG legal bods who not surprisingly are already going through everything with a fine tooth comb.

If there is no GREED involved everyone will get a REFUND then?.

[Woz01]

 

The riders didn't deliver on that.

 

In the past, when meetings have been called off due to the track being 'dangerous', it's in most cases been pretty obvious. Riders have been struggling to ride, let alone race.

 

It seems to be escaping peoples attention, that wasn't the case here. There had been some good racing. The two heats prior to the track suddenly being too 'dangerous' to ride had produced good racing with riders going hard at it.

This is the point isn't it. If riders clearly thought it was dangerous and just wanted to get to heat 12 we wouldnt have had the close racing in the heats leading up to the abandonment. Riders would surely just want to survive the 4 laps but it was clear they were racing.

[SCB]

I would never EVER call a rider greedy, i have never had the guts to ride a speedway bike surely the riders at this LEVEL deserve a sound track with a starting gate.?

How many of the riders have ever prepared a track? Yet it seems all 18 of them through it wasn't good enough. Lets see them do better. They can do the track for Cardiff.

[BWitcher]

 

Let's assume the track was rideable, if indeed not raceable. Why would the riders not want to ride, what are their reasons?

 

 

Now that is the pertinent question.

 

Politics has already entered the sport at the top level and I am convinced it played a big part in the events of Saturday night. yes the organisers have to take some of the blame, but it's clear the riders (or a section of them.. the majority are passive and just go with the flow.. ) were looking for any reason to play up.

 

Who stands to gain from a showpiece event like this going t'ts up?

[stratton]

How many of the riders have ever prepared a track? Yet it seems all 18 of them through it wasn't good enough. Lets see them do better. They can do the track for Cardiff.

In a meeting with 50,000 odd paying supporters, was it 40 pound upwards for a ticket? and the world looking in.Do you not EXPECT a safe raceable track with a functioning starting gate surely that is not to much to ask is it.?

[The White Knight]

But that's not quite what you said before. I agree that track did not LOOK dangerous but I wasn't riding it.

 

We have seen worse tracks at Cardiff especially around 2008/9/10 as I recall but that doesn't make it right. In fact it's a pity they didn't all walk out then as we might be seeing better tracks now if they did,.

 

What we saw on Saturday was a shambles from start to finish. Supposing the riders hadn't walked out then what? More rubbish tracks and hopeless referees ? Ole Olsen continuing to line his pockets for substandard workkmanship ? At least there is now a chance that something might get done. Maybe Eurosport and sponsors might tell the FIM to do a proper job or they are off. Someone else has posted AJ's comments about the track, so more and more information will gradually leak out.

 

Well done to the riders for sticking together and making a stand I say. Hopefully the heads that roll will be those responsible for the shambles, because even if the full 23 heats had been raced there is no way that sort of meeting can be regarded as acceptable for what should be the jewel in the crown of 21st century speedwáy.

I quite agree - it was a to shambles. Wasn't any better for those who had spent their hard earned money to attend either - they seem to have been kept in the dark as to what was happening with little or no communication.

 

How much longer is this Company (BSI) to be allowed to bring Speedway in to disrepute? Speedway is quite capable of doing that on it's own without any help from BSI. Saturday was an absolute disaster for the Sport. There are folk on here saying they will not be going to Cardiff or other GPs. Why should they? I know I won't be going to Cardiff again and the way thing are going I will be damned if I am going to waste my time watching it on the Television either. I have never liked the GP System as many on here know - but I have watched them. The farce that developed on Saturday has, to an extent, put me off. If enough people are put off and actually do decide to stop watching - that will be the end of Television coverage. It may have ended already if Executives at Eurosport look too closely at what happened on Saturday.

 

I am also pleased that the Riders made a stand. It is their lives at risk - nobody else's.

 

 

Great post. Problem is that FIM sold out to the greedy gits who continue ruin our sport. Get the World Championship on speedway tracks. Can you imagine the FIFA World Cup being played on park pitches

SOLD!!!! OUT!!!

 

Speedway for Thirty Pieces of Silver. :sad:

 

Always read the small print.

 

THERE will understandably be many like you and that is the long term damage.

 

As for some suggesting this is all about greed, it isn't. Since John Postlethwaute first came on board the intention has been to elevate the status of the World Championship, to run in stadiums that provide first class spectator facilities and are generally cited in big cities that have also lots of other attractions.

 

Ask any rider whether he would rather complete at Cardiff or Coventry? A Swede would he prefer Malilla or Stockholm. And for the Aussies to have a round at the Etihad.

 

Staging these meetings is also a huge financial risk for the organisers.

 

What is undeniable is that ultimately providing the riders with a stage on which they can perform at the highest level is paramount. Of course mistakes, human error, can be made. What is unforgivable is if the same mistakes are being made and whatever the extenuating circumstances, which inevitable exist, that appears to have been the case in Warsaw.

 

Have actually spoken to Paul Bellamy this morning and at the moment he is not in a position to say anything until getting the green light from the IMG legal bods who not surprisingly are already going through everything with a fine tooth comb.

Yes - the Legal eagles probably are going through everything with a fine tooth comb.

 

That will be to find reasons, excuses for those who are responsible. What they will most certainly NOT be doing, is anything to see how Supporters who paid their money to watch this disaster unfold could be compensated for their trouble. In fact they will be most probably trying to find ways of NOT paying any sort of Compensation at all.

 

So I am NOT really surprised that they won't say anything - they need to get everything nicely 'stitched up' before doing so.

[BWitcher]

This is the point isn't it. If riders clearly thought it was dangerous and just wanted to get to heat 12 we wouldnt have had the close racing in the heats leading up to the abandonment. Riders would surely just want to survive the 4 laps but it was clear they were racing.

 

Correct.

 

And it's something that quite a few on here appear to have forgotten.

 

I highly doubt anyone at the end of heat 12 would have predicted the meeting would be abandoned at that point.

 

Whereas with a truly dangerous track, its pretty obvious.

[norbold]

It's obvious what went wrong on Saturday. What was needed was an off-duty referee, an off-duty race director, an off-duty starting gate mechanic, an off-duty track layer and 18 off-duty riders. That would have sorted it.

[spook]

I really think the answer could be as simple as the final straw had been broken for the riders ............. following issues at practice.... issues with the starting gate..... issues with reffing.............. and all within the first handful of heats of a world championship that many had been preparing for over months

all it takes is someone on 3 or less points to consider that they arent coping well with the adverse conditions and that they are unlikely to make the semis.............. hell they may not even score another point while someone like NKI could streak to a GP win with 19 points on the board

they may well have had a valid point about the state of the track....... but not at that premature point

Edited April 20, 2015 by spook

[BWitcher]

In a meeting with 50,000 odd paying supporters, was it 40 pound upwards for a ticket? and the world looking in.Do you not EXPECT a safe raceable track with a functioning starting gate surely that is not to much to ask is it.?

 

The track was raceable, or did you not see Bomber chase down and pass Hancock in Heat 9, or Jonasson and Gollob passing and repassing in Heat 11, or Janowksi and Zagar passing and repassing in Heat 12?

 

3 excellent races out of 4... then its abandoned.

[orion]

Correct.

 

And it's something that quite a few on here appear to have forgotten.

 

I highly doubt anyone at the end of heat 12 would have predicted the meeting would be abandoned at that point.

 

Whereas with a truly dangerous track, its pretty obvious.

This is a good point ..as I said I was watching it on Sky plus and pushing the fast forward between heats ...after heat 12 and as I kept the x 30 on I wonder why the next heat was not going on . Never did I think for a moment that the meeting might be called on because of the track