Warsaw Gp Saturday 18th April

[Starman2006]

 

Oh look, Starman in defending anything Poole shocker....

Just saying as it was.

[The White Knight]

I do suspect that tonight will be a very significant turning-point for the sport at international level. To me, the sport's been trying to over-reach itself for many years, based on the ability to pull off meetings at Cardiff, although that's been a very close-run thing on a few occasions.

 

Trying to take the sport to a new stature and level of public awareness are of course noble ambitions but I do wonder if the sport simply has the resources to pull off these grandiose schemes often enough?

 

Is this a brown ale sport pretending it drinks champagne? (No Darcy Ward jokes please - there's a separate thread for that).

 

Just how far can speedway reach? Is it wiser to play it safe, run meetings on tracks that can allow a decent product to be offered to the world or do we keep aiming too high and falling on our noses? Yes, it does work sometimes but you cannot build a sport on just atmosphere and hype. You can fool some of the people etc. etc.

 

What we saw tonight was simply deplorable. It was like seeing a former love in the gutter, begging for fags or another drink. Jim Lawrence was not in control. The failure to exclude Troy Batchelor was questionable but the inability to either see the problem with the starting gate or why riders were pulling-up, or simply to choose to plough on regardless was simply unacceptable.

 

The Grand Prix tries to provide us with the best riders, the best stadia and best racing. Is Jim Lawrence one of the best referees? If so, we need an urgent training programme! His on-screen body language during the early problems was worrying. It did not look like someone in control, and I've been in the company of enough referees over the years to have a clue about this.

 

Regarding the role of the Race Director, Phil Morris faced three crises in his first meeting - practice, starting gate and then the track break-up. The fact that the meeting failed after 12 heats shows that it was not a happy start. But his predecessor in the role Tony Olsson was clearly there, as seen on TV and I presume that his predecessor Ole Olsen was also present, given that he was in charge of the track installation. Surely either or both were on hand to advise?

 

Just how many times will we suffer these fiascos and just how many more times will we hear that lessons have been learnt and that the problem can't happen again?

 

It has. It has many times. It's been happening for years, even back at Wembley, such as 1975. Speedway cocks up, eventually. Gelsenkirchen, Riga, Ullevi. The list goes on.

 

I am certain that BSI's rivals One Sport will be delighted to see them fail so spectacularly in the most prominent stadium in Poland. Is this a turning-point in speedway politics that sees Poland trying to take control of the sport it already financially owns? (Ask any rider fined by a Polish club for getting injured riding for a team outside the country, or at least threatened regarding that latter point)

 

It's time for the sport at ALL levels to live within its means, to stop thinking that a few flashy risks will bring riches. They won't. Solid development will, putting good value for money meetings on at sustainable venues. Let people grow to love an all-action sport rather than use smoke and mirrors to convince people that crap is gold-plated.

 

It's time to focus on the product, the racing, not the wrapping. Then, once the product is strong enough, organisationally and financially then take it to those higher levels. We can see some great racing at GPs. Not enough though.

 

Any fool can reach for the stars and fall. To get there you have to do more than reach, you have to build on solid foundations.

 

In Britain, in a week of generally fine spring weather we have staged how many meetings at out highest level? Two. Just two. This is to accommodate tonight's hubris in Poland.

 

That's a high price to pay and once again the British public have been mugged as much as those fools who think that flying to Poland's going to automatically give them great speedway.

 

Still, the atmosphere was great I suppose and the beer was cheap., Who needs more?

 

So far this year for various reasons, notably health I've no been able to get to any live speedway. Fortunately that's changing and I can hopefully start getting to some league matches, ideally in the PL or NL. I'll leave the rest of you to be dazzled by the shiny shiny.......

 

Speedway cannot afford to self-destruct like this yet again. Sadly it will. It mustn't.

 

(P.S. - "So, this time in English please Tomasz.....")

Without doubt - one of the BEST Posts I have ever read on this Forum. 100% correct in my opinion.

 

I have seen claims that 12 heats were required for results to stand and that also means no ticket refunds.

 

So I don't think it's too unrealistic to think that the rider's meeting was just a hoax meaning

that it was decided already from the beginning to call it off after 12 heats so that the results

will be valid and so that they don't would have to pay out ticket refunds.

An interesting Theory - but I doubt if even Speedway Management Team would stoop as low as that.

 

........................... but then again?

 

Apology? never gonna happen, they are too busy laughing all the way to the bank!

There could be a certain truth in that.

 

If the riders withdrew their services after heat 12 then they have done untold damage to themselves. They should have carried on and just gone through the motions for the remaining heats. It is they that will suffer most especially in the pocket if people say we will not go to any more GP's. or it could result in the GP's folding completely. After Jason Doyle got excluded there were no more problems starting off on the green light.

With any luck.

 

 

Well I was out last night - Entertainment was rubbish. I got home at midnight and thought I would watch the GP as I thought it would be better entertainment than that served up by the Singer I had seen at my Club.

 

How wrong could I be - I sat in front of my Television with ever increasing disbelief in what was happening before my very eyes. It absolutely beggared belief.

 

That something like this has come to pass is nothing more than a disgrace to the Sport I have loved for over 50 years.

 

I hate to say 'I told you so' but I have been slated on here many times for my criticism of BSI. Since their involvement, the Sport has become all about money and not the Riders or the Supporters which is why Supporters are drifting away from Speedway year on year. After this performance I really do believe that our Sport is in it's death throes.

 

These Temporary Tracks MUST be discontinued - they too often - do not provide good Racing and are more about fleecing good Crowds of their hard earned money than about the actual Sport.

 

If we are going to have a GP System then they must be in Stadia where there is a permanent Speedway Track - if we have to take a chance on the Weather - then so be it - Speedway has been competing with the Weather since 1928.

 

Finally heads must roll following last night's debacle. Firstly we should be get rid of BSI - a blight on our Sport if ever there was one. Secondly, and sadly the Race Director and the Track Curator (not sadly) should go.

 

Frankly Speedway cannot afford all of these 'cock ups'. The Sport is on the bottom as it is - something that disgraces our Sport on World Wide Television makes Speedway a laughing stock.

 

I AM SO VERY SAD TODAY.

[Star Lady]

 

 

These Temporary Tracks MUST be discontinued - they too often - do not provide good Racing and are more about fleecing good Crowds of their hard earned money than about the actual Sport.

 

but the crowds can only be fleeced if they are daft enough to pay the inflated prices demanded to watch what is normally a bit of a lottery on these temporary tracks. I did Cardiff for 5 years but once the hotel prices were hiked up and the racing got no better, being deafened by air horns in the name of entertained lost it's appeal.

 

Finally heads must roll following last night's debacle. Firstly we should be get rid of BSI - a blight on our Sport if ever there was one. Secondly, and sadly the Race Director and the Track Curator (not sadly) should go.

 

Heads should roll undoubtedly, sadly the ones that should, BSI, won't

 

Frankly Speedway cannot afford all of these 'cock ups'. The Sport is on the bottom as it is - something that disgraces our Sport on World Wide Television makes Speedway a laughing stock.

 

I AM SO VERY SAD TODAY.

 

I know I'm rather disenchanted with many aspects of speedway nowadays but thanks to the sterling efforts of Andy Jaye and Scott Nicholls last night, I found the eurosport coverage as entertaining if not more so than many a completed GP and that to me is the saddest thing.

[Gavan]

Oh give it a rest................safety is paramount in any sport no matter how dangerous it is.................if you read the article it was Nicki P and Greg Hancock who were the ones who consulted with the other riders before doing anything...............

 

The way some people are talking on this thread and elsewhere are talking it should have continued and stuff the safety aspect..............that track was an accident waiting to happen..................as soon as it was realised at practice the meeting should have been moved to one of the many amazing purpose built stadiums................

 

Rider safety is more important than making millions..............

 

RP

Sorry but the track was raceable and rideable, did you not watch it properly and see Harris?

 

The only riders who fell was an unfit Batchelor and a struggling Holder.

 

The track was difficult but not unsafe.

 

Seem to remember a track at Belle Vue not so long ago that was waterlogged yet the meeting continued when it was far far more dangerous than last night. Poole werent worried about that track i seem to recall.

 

The riders (not all of them) bottled it.

 

The starting gate looked farcical.

The track wasnt great.

 

But the biggest farce was the huge delay while the riders had a meeting and got the meeting called off

I did like the way all the riders were congratulating each other, while the fans who spent their very hard earned and graft trudged out of the stadium. Doesn't set a good example and very unprofessional me thinks..

didnt see any riders congratulating each other they were hugging and congratulating Gollob.

so unlike you get something wrong

Think your out of order there darling, it pissed down for a week monsoon style, So much rain it flooded the main grandstand entrance and the office's corridor. If you don't believe me or any other poole fans, just ask Nigel Pearson, he was down here for best part of a week, and even he couldn't believe what he was seeing.

I dont think a Poole fan can give any credibility on track safety as they need to get their own house in order first.

Quite happy to race in a monsoon at Belle Vue where riders couldnt see, yet think last night was dangerous!

[STARRGAZER1]

Wow what a thing to criticise about y flags a minor detail in view of what happened get a life

[Starman2006]

Sorry but the track was raceable and rideable, did you not watch it properly and see Harris?

 

The only riders who fell was an unfit Batchelor and a struggling Holder.

 

The track was difficult but not unsafe.

 

Seem to remember a track at Belle Vue not so long ago that was waterlogged yet the meeting continued when it was far far more dangerous than last night. Poole werent worried about that track i seem to recall.

 

The riders (not all of them) bottled it.

 

The starting gate looked farcical.

The track wasnt great.

 

But the biggest farce was the huge delay while the riders had a meeting and got the meeting called off

didnt see any riders congratulating each other they were hugging and congratulating Gollob.

so unlike you get something wrong

So why did the riders get the meeting called off then ?

Sorry but the track was raceable and rideable, did you not watch it properly and see Harris?

 

The only riders who fell was an unfit Batchelor and a struggling Holder.

 

The track was difficult but not unsafe.

 

Seem to remember a track at Belle Vue not so long ago that was waterlogged yet the meeting continued when it was far far more dangerous than last night. Poole werent worried about that track i seem to recall.

 

The riders (not all of them) bottled it.

 

The starting gate looked farcical.

The track wasnt great.

 

But the biggest farce was the huge delay while the riders had a meeting and got the meeting called off

didnt see any riders congratulating each other they were hugging and congratulating Gollob.

so unlike you get something wrong

Really, you need to pay a visitation to one of our sponsors, Specsavers.. very disrespectful to all the fans that were present. But i don't expect a clown like you to understand that.

Edited April 19, 2015 by Starman2006

[Mike.Butler]

I am aware of a schism in British speedway. Those fans attending the Cardiff GP who rarely attend domestic league racing, and those who do the opposite.

discuss.

[STARRGAZER1]

The incident with the flag happened at 5pm well before the shambles took place inside.Having spent my hard earned cash on attending overseas gps i expect. to be able to show support for my countrys riders.The trouble with many brits is that we are not patriotic enough.After all this was an international sporting event and it looked as though only poles were there.Even Poles that we spoke to were amazed at this reestriction.Yes we go to watch a good event but like to support British sportspersons,we prefer to give support at the event not as armchair fans! Yes i am still in Warsaw and will be in Tampere next month and hope to see better.

Edited April 19, 2015 by STARRGAZER1

[speedibee]

Riders should ride on all types of tracks, big or small bumpy or smooth. The issue here is that the track was far from dangerous! The races before the abandonment were close and half decent. Even had time to do a track grade. Imagine if they get a bit of rain at Prague, call it off because it's not perfect. Ridiculous!

if they are going to call of the prague GPbecause it's not perfect they might as well do it now . it will be a guaranteed borefest

[Reevesey2]

I am new to this forum, sitting in my hotel room in Warsaw I just felt compelled to say something in a public arena. I have been reading these posts on and off during the day and been trying to find out more info from "official" sites. I've been out and about trying to enjoy an additional day in Warsaw but I am getting increasingly angry the more I think about last nights events.

I apologise if some of these comments have already been made in other posts as I've not read all of them.

Just checked the SGP website to see if there was anything approaching an apology and there's just an interview with Jarek Hampel talking as if it was just another meeting!

However - I did take the opportunity to try and look up ticket terms and conditions. The SGP site doesn't have anything for The Warsaw meeting, but does show them bizarrely for Cardiff and Manilla. According to the terms and conditions for Cardiff, it states the FIM regulations require 16 heats to be completed before the meeting can be deemed complete. If these are FIM conditions, why can they be different for Warsaw?

Everyone seems to be suggesting that there was a convenient decision made after heat 12 on the grounds that the meeting could then be called and no refunds given.

Am I missing something here - or do I have any chance of getting my ticket refunded? (never mind flight and hotel bill).

[TonyE]

Message to fans - don't go to GPs and wait to see what happens.

[Trees]

Maybe to the casual viewer at home it's better to have meetings at already established tracks but to the person in attendance, these big stadium work. Or why else are 14 of the 15 biggest speedway crowds in the last 14 years Cardiff and the other being last night? Suggest people want big, full stadiums. I still get as excited about Cardiff now as I did back in 2001 for the first one - rubbish track or not. And frankly, other than 2012 when the track was so good it didn't rut up, the racing at Cardiff has always been between alight and good. Without the rutting you just get follow the leader.

 

So we now have 2 choices. Smooth, slick surfaces that allow the rides to ride around for 23 heats all content they're not going to crash OR we have a few ruts and bumps but we get passing. The first pleases the riders but bores the fans. The second upsets the riders but pleases the fans. Without the fans the riders can't earn a living, without the riders, well, we'll just find some more!

I would rather they have just a few GPS on great racing tracks.

 

Perhaps I should add, where they sell all the tickets at a sensible price rather than give half of them away to fill the stadium ala Warsaw and Cardiff to a certain degree.

Edited April 19, 2015 by Trees

[Red Panda]

 

No he doesn't.. I was at Poole last season and the track was awful, it would have fit perfectly as a grasstrack track. Have you forgotten ALL the postponements for the final last year.. Even this year there are complaints about it from your own fans nd riders FFS. The Poole track is far worse than that track was last night.

 

So if anyone is talking bulls!Te it's you!

Where did I say Poole was perfect..................I did not................so you are talking out of your backside too............at least Poole is better than a certain other track I could mention that seems to have nothing but problems..............

 

RP

[bigcatdiary]

 

Well I said it might be interesting on another forum after the news that they had problems with part of the track but that was the wrong word as shambles is probably more accurate.

 

Personally I have seen many many meetings on tracks worse than that, I also find it hard to believe that they only had one set of starting equipment.

 

I also thought Batchelor was fortunate not to get excluded for having Pedersen off and heat 2 should have been rerun as it must have been clear from the TV replays that the tapes were not going up evenly.

 

No problem with Doyles exclusion, he clearly move before the light went off.

 

But I feel really sorry for supporters, I know a lot of friends that went and after the ticket rip off I fear this will end up costing the organisers support in future GP,s especially at Warsaw, they surely must offer some compensation.

 

Lastly I was extremely dissapointed with the total lack of information coming through from Eurosport and the commentators as to what was happening and the report on the SGP web site is frankly pathetic.

 

I to will be very interested to see what the star says about this debacle but as others have said surely someone must be held accountable.

 

A real poor day for the sport.

[BWitcher]

Message to fans - don't go to GPs and wait to see what happens.

 

They already do that with league meetings...

Where did I say Poole was perfect..................I did not................so you are talking out of your backside too............at least Poole is better than a certain other track I could mention that seems to have nothing but problems..............

 

RP

 

But riders safety is paramount! So if Pooles not perfect, they shouldn't be staging meetings.

 

Or is riders safety only paramount on non Poole tracks?

[Midland Red]

. . . they should have bent over backwards to ensure this showpiece event was properly concluded . .

Why? It doesn't matter if it's today's Storm NL Challenge Match or a GP - if there is a question of rider safety, as per the FIM Jury last night, then the meeting should not be allowed to continue

[sommelier]

Sorry but the track was raceable and rideable, did you not watch it properly and see Harris?

 

The only riders who fell was an unfit Batchelor and a struggling Holder.

 

The track was difficult but not unsafe.

 

Seem to remember a track at Belle Vue not so long ago that was waterlogged yet the meeting continued when it was far far more dangerous than last night. Poole werent worried about that track i seem to recall.

 

The riders (not all of them) bottled it.

 

The starting gate looked farcical.

The track wasnt great.

 

But the biggest farce was the huge delay while the riders had a meeting and got the meeting called off

didnt see any riders congratulating each other they were hugging and congratulating Gollob.

so unlike you get something wrong

I dont think a Poole fan can give any credibility on track safety as they need to get their own house in order first.

Quite happy to race in a monsoon at Belle Vue where riders couldnt see, yet think last night was dangerous!

You should have been at Mildenhall the other week, the track was a nightmare, but the young & far less experienced riders just got on with it barr one

[Chris Brown]

We just seem to be missing the point. If GP's are raced on speedway tracks rather than a compressed beach put together at the last minute then none of this would happen

 

These problems are driven entirely by greed to take the sport to places that make the most money and sod the consequences to the riders, supporters and frankly anyone else

[salty]

BECAUSE there is a desire, shared and much appreciated by the riders, to elevate the sport. Who wouldn't want to perform in some of the best stadia in the world in major cities like Warsaw, Cardiff, Stockholm and Melbourne?

 

And there is no guarantee that some permanent tracks will produce better racing.

 

 

We just seem to be missing the point. If GP's are raced on speedway tracks rather than a compressed beach put together at the last minute then none of this would happen

 

These problems are driven entirely by greed to take the sport to places that make the most money and sod the consequences to the riders, supporters and frankly anyone else

Wonder if Phil has changed his viewpoint at all after last night's debacle.

[Jonimac]

Shame about last night. Hero to zero in 3 hours. A massive crowd in an impressive stadium, Greg H suggesting that this was the closest he would get to Wembley in his career (ie the longest of any of them) . Eurosport offering their informed, enthusiastic coverage which disentegrated into waffling by the end. Speedway is trying very hard to make an impact, for which the organisers should be congratulated. Yes, it brings in the cash but it takes plenty just to put these meetings on. However it would seem not enough of the budget is being spent on track preparation. I would love to ask the eventual "winner" why he chose not to practice. If it is an unsurmountable task to prepare a temporary racing surface to the safety (and racing) standard required, then the GP series will wither and die, as sponsors and spectators lose interest. Only good race of the night for me was when Kelvin referred to Gollob beating Nilsson years ago, and I watched it on Youtube while I awaited the farce to finish. Safety is paramount, so if Greg Hancock says it's not acceptable, that should be good enough for any speedway fan to acknowledge. This is not a time for hysterical reactions (and that other nonsense about flags, Poole, etc) but an assured response that this will not happen again. This requires explanation as to how they will acheive this. If we expect the authorities to be explicit in their details, the least we can do is a considered and measured response to the plans. Not a Pavlovian dismissal from the armchair experts.