Warsaw Gp Saturday 18th April

[baldinhio]

 

About 1.5 million pounds per year.

 

Do you know how this sum is distributed?

[The White Knight]

 

It's not for BSI or even the FIM to fix the issues in British speedway, and certainly British speedway is largely the architect of its own demise. However, the SGP did affect the British leagues much more than other national leagues because it took away several prime weekend race nights on which the more economically successful tracks generally rode. No-one would suggest it was the sole reason for the sport that was already in decline, but it certainly didn't help.

 

Getting back to the issue at hand though, the sport's premier event should be run for the benefit of that sport, as it is with most other professional sports. IMG have a reputation for going after sports with low barriers to entry and little in the way of obligations, and whilst you can't blame them for seeking those opportunities, speedway stupidly continues to allow itself to be sold short to an organisation that cares little for the sport or its future.

 

Ultimately yes, the FIM are to blame for not extracting better commercial value, although I suspect they were just happy to off-load the running of an unfashionable discipline in return for a few shekels. I'm sure the money they receive (aside from what they pay out as prize money) does go towards the furtherance of motor sport (after all the wining and dining of officials has been taken care of), but the extent to which it benefits professional speedway is questionable. What really is to be gained by running U21 World Finals halfway round the world or staging meetings in countries where there's little or no organised speedway - the money would be far better spent on facilitating local practice circuits and junior competitions.

 

The promoters running professional speedway (i.e. in Britain, Poland, Sweden and Denmark) are also to blame for allowing the FIM to sell a product that they provide the substantive ingredients for (the riders and their wages), without negotiating any percentage of the returns. They're even more foolish for not doing exactly what IMG/BSI are doing in the first place, but instead running the SGP for their own benefit. It's not rocket science, even if they're incapable of organising 12 meetings a season and getting them on television, there's plenty of sports management organisations out there that would have done it for them for a cut of the profits. If womens' netball can get several millions to be on television every week, then it really does put into perspective what a poor effort speedway makes.

 

Instead, we get the endless repeated mantra of how BSI have 'raised the bar' etc.. etc.. despite the fact that the bar was on the ground to start with and it's only been raised a few inches in 15 years. Even worse, is how many fans unquestioningly buy into this myth, to the point of becoming apologists for what is in reality a not especially well run competition, nor one that much benefits the wider sport.

This is without doubt one of the best Posts you have done on this Forum Humphrey. I commend you for it. The only bit I could possibly argue with is my highlighted bit.

 

I think you are exaggerating the height.

 

GPs at the London Arena, Bradford and Coventry and then Cardiff. Seems a bit more than a few inches to me.

To quote Mandy Rice Davies:

 

"Well he would say that, wouldn't he"?

[waiheke1]

 

Do you know how this sum is distributed?

They pay the riders prize money, which from memory is under half that figure. And the rest is a mystery.

[SCB]

They pay the riders prize money, which from memory is under half that figure. And the rest is a mystery.

Hotels for the FIM officials at the GPs too - that won't be cheap!

[Grand Central]

Hotels for the FIM officials at the GPs too - that won't be cheap!

Surely, they don't come out of that money either.

I imagine it is the local promoters who foot the bill for their stay.

[iris123]

.

 

British Speedway needs all the help it can get at present, the Sport is dying. BSI are creaming off the top talent from our Tracks for their own benefit without a thought of the consequences of their actions.

Whilst I don't want to be defending BSI at this time I really feel British speedway only has itself to blame for the situation they are in now.Shortsightedness with having no real scheme to train and bring on the youngsters and shortsightedness in not being in charge of their own destiny regards to having virtually no speedway owned stadia.They relied on kids coming through local grasstrack and they relied on stadium owners giving them access on good nights.Without their own stadiums they had little chance to train up youngsters of their own and relied more and more on foreign rider and had to lump whatever days/nights they were given by the stadium owners.That isn't good,regardless of what BSI do.And you/we can hardly complain about them "creaming off the top talent from our Tracks" as most comes from abroad

[The White Knight]

Whilst I don't want to be defending BSI at this time I really feel British speedway only has itself to blame for the situation they are in now.Shortsightedness with having no real scheme to train and bring on the youngsters and shortsightedness in not being in charge of their own destiny regards to having virtually no speedway owned stadia.They relied on kids coming through local grasstrack and they relied on stadium owners giving them access on good nights.Without their own stadiums they had little chance to train up youngsters of their own and relied more and more on foreign rider and had to lump whatever days/nights they were given by the stadium owners.That isn't good,regardless of what BSI do.And you/we can hardly complain about them "creaming off the top talent from our Tracks" as most comes from abroad

That is very true iris123 - but - if BSI wish to run their GP Series as a truly International Event then surely they need to contribute to the development of Riders of all Nationalities not just British Riders..

 

They (BSI) are making a lot of money off the backs of these Riders, surely it is down to them to help to ensure a continuous flow of said Riders into the GP ranks.

 

I am not saying that BSI should not make a Profit - of course they should - what I am saying is they should be investing in the future of Speedway to ensure that their Event continues to grow and improve.

[oldace]

That is very true iris123 - but - if BSI wish to run their GP Series as a truly International Event then surely they need to contribute to the development of Riders of all Nationalities not just British Riders..

 

They (BSI) are making a lot of money off the backs of these Riders, surely it is down to them to help to ensure a continuous flow of said Riders into the GP ranks.

 

I am not saying that BSI should not make a Profit - of course they should - what I am saying is they should be investing in the future of Speedway to ensure that their Event continues to grow and improve.

 

 

Why do Poland, Sweden Denmark etc seem to manage to develop riders of their own ? What is it you would like BSI to actually do. Even if the ploughed every penny they make into the four or five speedway nations it would amount to £15,000 or so per track. What part of British development is wholly dependent on the odd £15,000 and how would it help.

 

The promoters of the 60s and 70s are where you should be directing your anger. They were happy to go home in Rolls Royces with suitcases full of cash without putting a single penny onto the infrastructure of the sport that was providing for them.

[racers and royals]

That is very true iris123 - but - if BSI wish to run their GP Series as a truly International Event then surely they need to contribute to the development of Riders of all Nationalities not just British Riders..

 

They (BSI) are making a lot of money off the backs of these Riders, surely it is down to them to help to ensure a continuous flow of said Riders into the GP ranks.

 

I am not saying that BSI should not make a Profit - of course they should - what I am saying is they should be investing in the future of Speedway to ensure that their Event continues to grow and improve.

I`m glad you are saying that BSI should make a profit-I suppose how much depends on the turnover /profit ratio. A usefull comparison could be made with someone like Dorna.

[The White Knight]

 

 

Why do Poland, Sweden Denmark etc seem to manage to develop riders of their own ? What is it you would like BSI to actually do. Even if the ploughed every penny they make into the four or five speedway nations it would amount to £15,000 or so per track. What part of British development is wholly dependent on the odd £15,000 and how would it help.

 

The promoters of the 60s and 70s are where you should be directing your anger. They were happy to go home in Rolls Royces with suitcases full of cash without putting a single penny onto the infrastructure of the sport that was providing for them.

You may be right - but - we are where we are.

 

Speedway is dying now - no matter whose fault it is.

 

Surely Speedway should benefit in some way from the Sports premier/Showcase Event.

 

Or - are you saying I am wrong.

I`m glad you are saying that BSI should make a profit-I suppose how much depends on the turnover /profit ratio. A usefull comparison could be made with someone like Dorna.

Who?

[racers and royals]

You may be right - but - we are where we are.

 

Speedway is dying now - no matter whose fault it is.

 

Surely Speedway should benefit in some way from the Sports premier/Showcase Event.

 

Or - are you saying I am wrong.

 

Who?

Google them

[oldace]

You may be right - but - we are where we are.

 

Speedway is dying now - no matter whose fault it is.

 

Surely Speedway should benefit in some way from the Sports premier/Showcase Event.

 

Or - are you saying I am wrong.

 

 

Well thats a different thing. Of course speedway should be benefiting financially from the SGP. The 3 main speedway countries could, and should, have been running the series themselves.

 

You said BSI should be helping rider development, I asked how you think they could do this

[The White Knight]

 

Well thats a different thing. Of course speedway should be benefiting financially from the SGP. The 3 main speedway countries could, and should, have been running the series themselves.

 

You said BSI should be helping rider development, I asked how you think they could do this

Firstly by giving a certain sum of money to each Country, graded to size and popularity of the Sport in said Country, for Youth Development. I realise that the Poles will probably get largest share. That is the only fair way to do it.

 

Secondly - Don't ask me how much - I don't know the the full financial details of the GP Series.

 

I hope this answers your question.

Edited May 15, 2015 by The White Knight

[oldace]

Firstly by giving a certain sum of money to each Country, graded to size and popularity of the Sport in said Country, for Youth Development. I realise that the Poles will probably get largest share. That is the only fair way to do it.

 

Secondly - Don't ask me how much - I don't know the the full financial details of the GP Series.

 

I hope this answers your question.

 

 

BSI make approx 1.5 million profit out of the SGP per year. If they split it 4 ways between the Danes Swedes Poles and ourselves the thats £375,000 per country. Split 20 ways that is less than 20K per track.

 

The sky deal was putting roughly double that into the Elite League, how much has that helped

[The White Knight]

 

 

BSI make approx 1.5 million profit out of the SGP per year. If they split it 4 ways between the Danes Swedes Poles and ourselves the thats £375,000 per country. Split 20 ways that is less than 20K per track.

 

The sky deal was putting roughly double that into the Elite League, how much has that helped

So you are saying that BSI has no responsibility toward Speedway - even though it is making a hell of a lot of money out of it. It doesn't matter to me how small the amount they put in to Speedway - it is though my contention that they should contribute something, not to each Track, but to each Country for Youth Development..

 

To me £1.5 million is a lot of money.

[f-s-p]

Surely, they don't come out of that money either.

I imagine it is the local promoters who foot the bill for their stay.

My understanding is also this. FIM people's stay is included in the staging fee.

[Humphrey Appleby]

To me £1.5 million is a lot of money.

It's not a huge amount in the grand scheme of things, but if you add in the amount paid to the FIM (minus the prize monies) plus the royalties that IMG charge BSI, then it would probably be closer to £3 million. There's most likely also a profit margin in the costs charged by other IMG companies to BSI for work undertaken on their behalf, so that could reasonably be another half million or so (although this is an estimate), and staff costs look very high as well.

 

So that's at £3.5 million or so that could be going into speedway. Divide that (for argument's sake) five ways between Britain, Poland, Sweden, Denmark and the other speedway countries, and it's 700K more per year than the BSPA currently receives.

[Humphrey Appleby]

I also regard the GP trips as my holiday time and have learned a lot more about European history and culture than I did when I was at school. There are some amazing places to visit than I would never have come across otherwise.I also feel lucky that I live in a time when it is very easy to travel throughout most of Europe unlike the previous generations who were commemorated in the VE celebrations last week and those in the cold war generation.

It's of course very nice the SGP is doing so much for tourism and European harmony (no doubt much to the chagrin of Mr Ploppy), but it still doesn't change the fact that the proceeds go largely to a US-based corporation and speedway benefits little.

 

Does it encourage speedway fans to attend their local tracks in any great numbers, or has it brought any significant returns in terms of sponsorship or other revenues? It might be argued that it helped British speedway get a television deal, but I think the truth of the matter is that could have been obtained regardless in the era of satellite/cable looking for cheap content.

 

It's maybe true that the SGP has kept interest in the sport alive longer than might otherwise be the case, but that's all the more reason for it to be supporting the underlying grassroots.

[severnsider]

I said at start that started going back to leagues after watching the sgp coverage in the earlier part of the post you copied

[BWitcher]

I think we can put all of this talk to bed.

 

It's now blatantly obvious the Warsaw meeting was postponed due to a few senior riders not doing well on the night and having a strop because it was a green light start.

 

Tonights GP the track is far, far trickier. The racing, much worse.. but messrs Hancock, Pedersen and Holder are scoring well.