Warsaw Gp Saturday 18th April

[Grand Central]

I hold no candle for Ole Olsen.

Have never been able to stand the guy.

 

I have been irritated by Phil's oft repeated mantra.

That building one-off tracks is 'not an exact science'.

 

But ....

 

They are on the right side of the argument.

 

Every single GP that is to be staged inside a roofed stadium demands a temporary track that is created in the matter of a few days. No getting away from that fact.

If you want Cardiff ... You have to have a temporary track.

 

But there will never be an infallible method.

It will be impossible to guarantee it. There will always be a risk.

You may refine it. You may have to just stick to the stadiums that are best suited. Who knows?

But there can never be a guarentee.

 

But after the events of Saturday. Everyone is now wanting that absolute certainty that just cannot be given.

And now with zero good will from the riders.

 

Isn't the 'answer' further away, than ever after what was done in Warsaw.

Rather than patting themselves on the back for their 'achievement'.

Where do THEY, the Warsaw 18, think we go from here?

 

I can just imagine Pedersen picking up his fourth crown at Norden.

With just a few hardy souls for company.

Wondering 'what happened?'

Edited April 23, 2015 by Grand Central

[spook]

 

 

Batch and Holder was injured and that is the main reason they fell off ..who else bar them also fell off on this so called dangerous track like Puk was saying .. Harris said the track was not raceable ? well I watched the last few heats and people were racing and passing . Zagar was happy for it to end I bet he was ££££

nonsense .... there is no sign of Holder having issues in ht10 and the viciousness of the grip he picked up left him no chance................. Batch in ht12 i'll agree with as he seemed unable to control what looked normally controllable and during that race he appeared to be struggling with his cornering......it cant be denied that he hit the same rut as Nicki though

did you also miss Nicki's issue in ht10 Orion?

 

Been told by someone unfortunate enough to have been there that they have been informed if they post their tickets back they will be exchanged for tickets for next years event.

Question is would you risk it considering travel/accomodation costs.

I cant understand the logic in that over a straight refund other than they are betting on x thousand people not coming back next year...... sounds unlawful to me and if challenged I suspect they would be required to give back hard cash......... I guess at this stage it is something though

[Starman2006]

All i will say to the organisers is, get Cardiff right, even if it means getting in there a few days earlier and letting the track bed in. Get TWO starting gates in, don't cut corners and do everything properly. Me, id get the Doc down from Wolvehampton to oversee the track prep.
I would also suggest that somebody from authority goes and checks the state of the shale that is going to Cardiff !!

Edited April 23, 2015 by Starman2006

[spook]

I hold no candle for Ole Olsen.

Have never been able to stand the guy.

 

I have been irritated by Phil's oft repeated mantra.

That building one-off tracks is 'not an exact science'.

 

But ....

 

They are on the right side of the argument.

 

Every single GP that is to be staged inside a roofed stadium demands a temporary track that is created in the matter of a few days. No getting away from that fact.

If you want Cardiff ... You have to have a temporary track.

 

But there will never be an infallible method.

It will be impossible to guarantee it. There will always be a risk.

You may refine it. You may have to just stick to the stadiums that are best suited. Who knows?

But there can never be a guarentee.

 

But after the events of Saturday. Everyone is now wanting that absolute certainty that just cannot be given.

And now with zero good will from the riders.

 

Isn't the 'answer' further away, than ever after what was done in Warsaw.

Rather than patting themselves on the back for their 'achievement'.

Where do THEY, the Warsaw 18, think we go from here?

 

I can just imagine Pedersen picking up his fourth crown at Norden.

With just a few hardy souls for company.

Wondering 'what happened?'

I'm not going to teach anyone to suck eggs on this subject but I DO think that it can be more of 'an exact science'

 

I was always critical of Ole's track prep for who his surfaces were suiting .... that combined with some of the grading antics he was orchestrating during meetings left me in no two minds that he couldnt be trusted in the race director position..................... On the whole with the track curating I think he has been a fairly safe pair of hands though.............. i'd like it to be pushed on though, and especially if he is now going to operate as a commercial company and presumably pick up $'s

 

it seems there would be several factors that should be considered and measured in relation to each other............ temperature, moisure, type of shale, base, humidity, storage to name a few ........... speedway does not have the money of football or golf or many other sports....... but it does KNOW that if the surface is no good then it is hamstrung and that means it HAS to nail it with no exceptions

 

Edited April 23, 2015 by spook

[weatherwatcher]

All in all, the whole fiasco has done our sport no good at all. The GP's are the top dollar of speedway and they are making a mockery of it by using these temorary stadiums, just to get the crowds in and make the money. But what happened on Saturday just made the 18 riders look very poor indeed. I know they have to think of their saftey, but the track did not seem that bad.

I wasn't riding on it so can't say for sure.

How far will they go though, from now, if one rider falls off at the next GP do they all walk out again.

[fullbore]

Get TWO starting gates in,

Have been at Cardiff for years.

 

Niamh

[orion]

 

 

nonsense .... there is no sign of Holder having issues in ht10 and the viciousness of the grip he picked up left him no chance................. Batch in ht12 i'll agree with as he seemed unable to control what looked normally controllable and during that race he appeared to be struggling with his cornering......it cant be denied that he hit the same rut as Nicki though

 

did you also miss Nicki's issue in ht10 Orion?

 

 

I cant understand the logic in that over a straight refund other than they are betting on x thousand people not coming back next year...... sounds unlawful to me and if challenged I suspect they would be required to give back hard cash......... I guess at this stage it is something though

w 2 crashes one because a rider could not hold on to his bike and a issue in 12 heats wow ...amazing that the track only dangerous after 12 heats when no one could get a refund and riders got paid

[Barrycuda]

Post removed

Edited June 6, 2015 by Barrycuda

[bluejam]

Been told by someone unfortunate enough to have been there that they have been informed if they post their tickets back they will be exchanged for tickets for next years event.

 

Question is would you risk it considering travel/accomodation costs.

 

Well,apart from the speedway,we had a wonderful weekend,and would go to the City of Warszawa at any given time.Will there be an event there next year after last Saturdays' fiasco?

 

My tickets were printed off internet,through Kupbilet.Are they offering refunds?

[Reevesey2]

I have contacted Viagogo who I purchased my tickets from - they have told me they are looking into the issue of refunds.

My issue is doubly confusing as they are a third party site and I paid over the odds for the tickets.

[bluejam]

Riders will give anything a go, but there comes a point where it becomes to dangerous. You cannot argue with them, they ride the track, the So called track curators come experts who sit in the stands don't.

Anybody who has thrown his or her leg over a speedway bike will know the feeling with all that power between your legs, and you hit a really bad rut at that sort of speed you'l be through the airfence and in most cases through the chicken wire and come out the other side as chips. Now, im not for one minute saying that the riders are totally exhonerated, but i still say it was a poor poor show for the fans that were in the stadium, and reguardless of what heat it finished for the purposes of a result whether its to keep the takings and appease the riders the bookmakers, which those who backed the outright winner or one for the frame would have lost their money. you could say its the equivelent of a 16 runner h'cap reduced to 15 so first 4 suddenly becomes first 3, how many times do you see that ?

From a bookmakers perspective theres not a lot you can do about it, but those in the stadium have been vastly short changed, and i still believe if those patrons have kept their credit card details or ticket stubs they should be compensated in some way or another by the organisers. problem nowadays is, money comes into everything.

 

http://speedwayupdates.proboards.com/thread/12801/belle-vue-poole-2013-30pm

 

Wasn't dangerous that night though was it Starry?

[spook]

w 2 crashes one because a rider could not hold on to his bike and a issue in 12 heats wow ...amazing that the track only dangerous after 12 heats when no one could get a refund and riders got paid

 

it isnt only crashes that show there is an issue..what happened to Nicki in ht10 was perhaps the best example... we cannot have riders being flung to the fence off the start because of the track........ maybe hunt down some posts from a few of us going through the specific issues that happened..... all 4 bends had been rutting since heat 6

 

the track needed work on it and like SCB said the other night, if so much time hadnt been spent mucking around with the tapes and having rider briefings they would have had that time to work on the track....... just like they have in the past when they have pushed through meetings

[Reevesey2]

Think the SStar reporting of events is generally quite balanced. Seems clear however that we have some way to go to establish some of the facts and that there will most likely be several versions of the truth.

Example is the Jason Doyle interview. He is very clearly of the view that it was Pedersen complaining to the ref on the telephone that got him excluded. Lawrence is claiming not so and that he couldn't even hear Nikki. So two questions - what was it that Pedersen tried to speak to the ref about? Why did it take so long to put the blue exclusion light on if he wasn't influenced?

Doyle is also claiming that in the riders meeting to explain the green light starts, they would be given a "second chance".

They can't both be right.

[HenryW]

They did do some extensive work on the track after heat 12, including bringing out a heavy roller...I'm not sure that any riders actually came out and looked at the track after they had done this work. I think they had already locked themselves away.

 

I don't have an issue with the riders being unhappy with the track conditions, and they are perfectly within their rights to refuse to continue.

 

I do have an issue with them hiding away from fans and refusing to explain themselves. They should have had the balls to come out and speak to the 53,000 crowd and tell them why they weren't continuing to race rather than hiding away until most of the stadium had emptied out.

 

I also have an issue with them receiving full pay for half a night's work. They rode until the point that they knew they wouldn't be asked to return or attend another venue the next day and then bailed on everyone. Pathetic.

[Tsunami]

But there was an issue with the starting gate. There was also an issue with the track and an issue with poor refereeing. You can't separate one from another and say what if?

 

You are losing sight of the fact that even if the full 23 heats had been run it would still have been a shambles of a meeting probably taking the best part of 4 hours to complete, on a deteriorating track, possibly with more crashes and further injuries.

 

Even if the riders had continued it would still have been an unacceptable standard for a showcase event and there would still be major questions to be asked about the track and general organisational standard. People who were put off the sport by th e cancellation would still be very likely put off if them event struggled on to full distance.

 

The one good thing that comes out of this is that there is probably ((slightly) more chance of something being done about it.

I couldn't understand that nothing was done to the track whilst discussions were taking place. A light blade, and tyre packing, together with a light watering, could have retrieved something to allow them to finish the meeting. The issue of the gates could have been forced on the riders as it was plain to see, except Doyle, that the gates off the green light were relatively decent and even.

[2ndBender]

All i will say to the organisers is, get Cardiff right, even if it means getting in there a few days earlier and letting the track bed in. Get TWO starting gates in, don't cut corners and do everything properly. Me, id get the Doc down from Wolvehampton to oversee the track prep.

I would also suggest that somebody from authority goes and checks the state of the shale that is going to Cardiff !!

Get Cardiff right? Not a chance. It's always been crap, as far as 'Speedway Racing' is concerned, no matter how often we try to delude ourselves that 'they really got the track right this year' and that it's the 'jewel in the Grand Prix crown'. I gave it the benefit of the doubt for the first ten years, but no more. And whilst I have travelled abroad to several Grands Prix, I wouldn't dream of going across the road to any of the rounds on temporary tracks.

[Tsunami]

Have been at Cardiff for years.

 

Niamh

Yep, they do usually use a double starting gate, so that a second set of tapes is available if the first set are demolished. Unfortunately there also appeared to be a problem with securing the inside gate to the base, and it that was true, it would probably have affected the double starting gate as well. Tapes operating inside a dry stadium, should not be a problem for anybody.

Get Cardiff right? Not a chance. It's always been crap, as far as 'Speedway Racing' is concerned, no matter how often we try to delude ourselves that 'they really got the track right this year' and that it's the 'jewel in the Grand Prix crown'. I gave it the benefit of the doubt for the first ten years, but no more. And whilst I have travelled abroad to several Grands Prix, I wouldn't dream of going across the road to any of the rounds on temporary tracks.

There has been some good tracks at Cardiff and one not so long ago that drew high praise from most on here. No good now rubbishing Cardiff, except for that one year which was a disaster.

[2ndBender]

Yep, they do usually use a double starting gate, so that a second set of tapes is available if the first set are demolished. Unfortunately there also appeared to be a problem with securing the inside gate to the base, and it that was true, it would probably have affected the double starting gate as well. Tapes operating inside a dry stadium, should not be a problem for anybody.

There has been some good tracks at Cardiff and one not so long ago that drew high praise from most on here. No good now rubbishing Cardiff, except for that one year which was a disaster.

I'm not rubbishing Cardiff just now.... I've always had my misgivings! I've always loved the day out, but I think we're all guilty of getting so wrapped up in the sense of occasion that we lose sight of the fact that the actual racing is never much better than very ordinary, at best. I'll never go again.

[Tsunami]

I'm not rubbishing Cardiff just now.... I've always had my misgivings! I've always loved the day out, but I think we're all guilty of getting so wrapped up in the sense of occasion that we lose sight of the fact that the actual racing is never much better than very ordinary, at best. I'll never go again.

Don't disagree with that but, apart from that one year, the track has generally been improving with a good one a couple of years ago. Like you, the socialising is the highlight of the weekend with a family holiday for the 6 of us, with the racing chucked in. This won't stop us from going in future years.

[Mr. Clemens]

For whom the bell tolls.

A day of shame and chaos.

A flagship sailing too close to the wind.

All of it is as plain as the nose on your face.

 

Before making any comment, on the meeting in Warsaw 18/04/2015, I waited to read what was said in the Speedway Star. All the questions expected to be asked were asked. It is said the PZM is contemplating legal action, therefore it needs to be made plain the reasons why, if they do so. It also needs to be made plain the reasons why if they decide not to do so.

 

It is said the FIM have launched a major investigation into the Warsaw travesty (or tragedy). It needs to be made plain what this investigation involves on every level. It needs to be made plain when the investigation begins, who is involved in it, what are the speedway qualifications of those investigating and when the results will be published.

 

All the details involved in the investigation need to be made plain so that justice can be done and the paying public can plainly see that justice has been done. It also needs to be made plain to the FIM that anything less than the truth of the matter would be deemed unsatisfactory and detrimental to speedway in general. It is suggested that people involved with the meeting didn’t do their job properly, the FIM therefore has no excuse if they don’t do their job properly.

 

Jim Easter of Travel Plus Tours ‘wants assurances’ before committing to taking customers to anymore GPs held on temporary tracks. This piece suggested that Mr Easter can’t afford to ruin the reputation of his business when inviting people to an event that is expected to take place in the expected manner. Mr Easter saId his customers ‘were lovely on Saturday, they were understanding and very kind to my hard working team’. Therefore if needs to be made plain to Mr Easter and all of his customers and his potential customers that this won’t happen again.

 

The piece entitled ‘Silence wasn’t golden’ concerned the reaction of the riders to all that was happening on and off the track. One of the questions asked, by Tony Hoare, was why didn’t the riders explain to the audience the reasons for their final decision not to ride, on the night? One answer is a possible ‘media blackout’.

Therefore the riders either as individuals or as a group, at some point soon, need to make plain, and in depth, to those in attendance at the arena and to the speedway GP followers in general, their reasons why they refused to continue riding. Individual riders making seperate individual comments in other words ‘a little bit of this and a little bit of that’ does not constitute the plain truth

 

The writer also classed the statement on the Speedway GB website as a ‘dismissive gesture’. He points out that no one from the FIM or BSI ‘was prepared to front up and answer questions on what had gone on and why. The 53000 deserved more respect than that.’

Recently Tony Blair made a comment stating why there should not be a referendum regarding the UK staying in the EU or not. He indicated that the British voter did not have the common sense to make the right decision. Perhaps the FIM and BSI have much the same regard for speedway fans as Blair does for the British electorate. Perhaps they believe speedway fans don’t have the common sense to understand the plain truth of what went on Saturday night.

 

Some people may think politicians get angry, when put on the spot, if they are asked to give an honest straight yes or no to a specific question when, in their opinion, it is not possible for them to do so. Perhaps politicians don’t get angry because they are put on the spot about a particular issue, they get angry because as far as they are concerned it’s got toss all to do with us. Tony Hoare calls into question the lack of a response by FIM and BSI. Mr Hoare is it possible that neither party made a statement regarding the meeting to the 53000 because it had toss all to do with them, (the 53000 that is)?

 

In the piece entitled ‘Humiliating’ the write describes the state of the track and the remedial efforts made to rectify the situation. The article also goes on to cite’ the Gelsenkirchen debacle of 2008 and the near chaos of Cardiff 2013’. The ‘FIM Probe article refers to ‘that pantomime night in Gothenburg’ and ‘who can forget the farce of the Latvian round last year which was called off and the meeting transported 140 miles from capital Riga to Daugavpils because of what were termed safety reasons- is scandalous and unforgivable’.

 

The real point of all these articles in the Speedway Star is the damage done to the reputation of speedway and how to rectify it as soon as possible to everyones satisfaction.

 

I read all the articles a number of times. Paying special attention to all those ‘hairy moments’ where other meetings were in danger of being called off, but for last minute remedial action. In the end, the article that stuck in my mind was that by Tony Hoare. He said ‘the people who emerged with dignity (regarding the whole business) were those fans, most of them Polish’ He also said, ‘When I covered GPs regularly for the Speedway Star in the 1990’s there would have been fears of a riot. In the stadium on Saturday , there was a hostile atmosphere, but it never turned nasty. The fans dropped their heads and walked out.’

 

On the Speedway Star letters page the first post is from someone who attended the meeting. Towards the end of the post they write, ‘ The first we knew it was off was when a photographer was making gestures to the crowd on the home straight that we should make for the exits.What other professional body with a responsibility for the organisation of such an event and the safety of the crowd, would leave matters to leak out in such a haphazard way?

It was lucky that the crowd leaving the stadium proved to be as compliant as they were and lucky too, that the reported calling of the police to the stadium weren’t needed to marshal the fans or take control of what could have been a very incendiary situation.’

 

So again it can be said the real point of all these articles in the Speedway Star is the damage done to the reputation of speedway and how to rectify it as soon as possible to everyones satisfaction. Therefore it is not unreasonable to ask for the plain truth to be told regarding all the questions everyone is asking.

 

While the FIM, BSI and all the other bodies involved in the organisation and running of the meeting that took place on Saturday are contemplating revealing the plain truth to the speedway supporting public, here is something else for them to contemplate.

 

Speedway is a ‘family sport’ meaning men women and children attend who belong to the same family, that is one of speedways ‘main selling points’. Something for all the family to attend.The words ‘pantomime’ and ‘farce’ have been used to describe other disrupted meetings that were called off . Something to be ‘pissed off about’ when it is happening, but something ‘I can laugh about now’, years down the line.

 

But think on this, the FIM, BSI and all the other bodies involved in the organisation and running of the meeting, while contemplating the plain truth. What if there had have been a riot? What if a photographer had been indicating to the crowd (the meeting was off and they might as well) leave the stadium and it turned out the meeting wasn’t off after all and people started returning to their seats against the rush of those trying to get out of the stadium? What if there had have been a riot and the police had been called to the stadium in force, to take control of what could have been ‘a very incendiary situation?’

 

Think on this, the FIM, BSI and all the other bodies involved in the organisation and running of the meeting, while contemplating the plain truth. There could have been a disaster unfold like the ones at Heysel, Hillsborough, Bradford and Ibrox. A disaster where people were killed or injured. What then the reputation of speedway?

Overstating the issue? Look at the headlines used, ‘FIM probe, ‘Humiliating’, Fans must come first’, Silence wasn’t golden’ and ‘Black Day’. Look at the comments ‘a day of shame and chaos’, ‘Warsaw Travesty’ etc. If a disaster did unfold then perhaps the headline might read ‘Oh what a price we paid (speedway) for loving you’.

 

If a disaster of that nature did occur what then of the plain truth? What would the FIM, BSI and all the other bodies involved in the organisation and running of the meeting have to say? That question brings to mind the old rhyme, ‘Who killed Cock Robin? Not I said the...........................’

Edited April 24, 2015 by Mr. Clemens