Fromafar Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 I would imagine BSI are not in a position to talk about refunds. The PZM were the event organizers and your contract is with them, not BSI. You are probably correct,but trying to tell everybody about their success story is this situation is in poor taste IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 I would imagine BSI are not in a position to talk about refunds. The PZM were the event organizers and your contract is with them, not BSI. BSI are the license holders and clearly have a major promotional role whether it is a GP they are organising or not. Once again we are entering territory where it is more about their legal team than holding up their end of the bargain with the fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 (edited) I get their statement and what they are trying to remind us of.................. Except the statement isn't even accurate. It could be argued Riga was temporary track, whilst Western Springs wasn't. Tampere is conveniently not mentioned at all, and neither was the near disaster at Cardiff not so long ago (as you might expect). Edited April 22, 2015 by Humphrey Appleby 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 BSI are the license holders and clearly have a major promotional role whether it is a GP they are organising or not. Once again we are entering territory where it is more about their legal team than holding up their end of the bargain with the fans. It has nothing to do with being license holders. In all cases the contract exists between the party that paid the money and the party that received it. If there are refunds they will come from the PZM who in turn, if there is a case, will claim against BSI. The riders have simply unleashed a beast here and I wouldn't be so sure they will be exempt from any repercussions. They are contractually obliged to the GPs and to simply withdraw your services at a moments notice is unacceptable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreverblue Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 I still have not seen anywhere that they are going to refund ticket money, all they are doing is trying to justify there procedures by telling us how few meetings have been cancelled, not admit their mistakes refund the paying public or give assurances that the public will get full refunds in the future, should this happen again. i went to the German gp the year before it was cancelled and it was a terrific weekend although the racing wasn't that good but when i heard the following year it had been cancelled due to rain in a covered stadium, i thought what incompetent fool decided it was a good idea to leave the roof open and now we get the scenario where even if the track is dry they can't prepare a track that is raceable when they have been preparing tracks in covered one off stadiums for such a long time. i just feel so sorry for those that attended and it seems once again that the fans are once again treated with contempt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 I still have not seen anywhere that they are going to refund ticket money, all they are doing is trying to justify there procedures by telling us how few meetings have been cancelled, not admit their mistakes refund the paying public or give assurances that the public will get full refunds in the future, should this happen again. i went to the German gp the year before it was cancelled and it was a terrific weekend although the racing wasn't that good but when i heard the following year it had been cancelled due to rain in a covered stadium, i thought what incompetent fool decided it was a good idea to leave the roof open and now we get the scenario where even if the track is dry they can't prepare a track that is raceable when they have been preparing tracks in covered one off stadiums for such a long time. i just feel so sorry for those that attended and it seems once again that the fans are once again treated with contempt. If you want a refund you can get one. That is a certainty. Terms and conditions are irrelevant if they contain unreasonable clauses. To sell an item and say we may decide only to give you half of it, is unreasonable and you would, if you took the matter further get your £20.00 (or whatever it was) back. It will of course cost you time and money to do it and no one in their right mind would bother individually. Collectively it is more realistic but even still not really viable. In the case of being ripped off for a small amount and the seller does not refund you, the only realistic course of action is to not use their services again. Chances are, in this case, refunds, or partial refunds will be forthcoming Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reevesey2 Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 Sorry everyone, just got back to the UK and been a bit busy, so I may have missed it, but has anyone found out why the meeting was called at 12 heats, when FIM regulations are still stating that 16 are required. It's not about getting a refund for me (flights and hotel were far more expensive than the ticket) but having now seen the TV footage I'm starting to get irate again, having calmed down a little since Saturday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 Except the statement isn't even accurate. It could be argued Riga was temporary track, whilst Western Springs wasn't. Tampere is conveniently not mentioned at all, and neither was the near disaster at Cardiff not so long ago (as you might expect). They also seem to have glossed over the abortion that was the 2001 German GP in Berlin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 (edited) Since when, ever, have riders been quiet about track conditions. If a track is dangerous they ALWAYS bring it up in interviews. I have just looked back over the interviews. Keep in mind that the interviews were being relayed to the crowd so they will be a bit circumspect about what they say. After heat 8 MJJ said "This is tough........the track is a bit rough..." Matej Zagar said " I am a bit surprised at this level.... the Devil has been naughty today, a few things on the track" Niels said " difficult out there....tricky conditions.....difficult conditions." When the riders meeting started after heat 12 Steve Brandon said the starting was an issue with the riders early doors but talking to the guys up and down the pit lane they just shrugged their shoulders and got on with it but he thought the track was becoming a bigger issue. None of this proves the track was dangerous but it does show the track was a growing concern as the meeting wore on and Kelvin mentioned it several times.. One point Kelvin mentioned was that it is very difficult to maintain concentration over a period of two hours with a lot of delays and stop start. . Possibly if the gate had not been an issue and the meeting had progressed at normal speed the riders may have been better placed mentally to deal with the track,, I don't know, I am just speculating on the possibility. It is clear however that concern about the track had been bubbling up for some time. Edited April 22, 2015 by E I Addio 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 If you want a refund you can get one. That is a certainty. Terms and conditions are irrelevant if they contain unreasonable clauses. To sell an item and say we may decide only to give you half of it, is unreasonable and you would, if you took the matter further get your £20.00 (or whatever it was) back. It will of course cost you time and money to do it and no one in their right mind would bother individually. Collectively it is more realistic but even still not really viable. In the case of being ripped off for a small amount and the seller does not refund you, the only realistic course of action is to not use their services again. Chances are, in this case, refunds, or partial refunds will be forthcoming Is there a Polish equivalent of a small claims court? Get a few thousand people submitting claims and bog them down in paperwork... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 It has nothing to do with being license holders. In all cases the contract exists between the party that paid the money and the party that received it. If there are refunds they will come from the PZM who in turn, if there is a case, will claim against BSI. The riders have simply unleashed a beast here and I wouldn't be so sure they will be exempt from any repercussions. They are contractually obliged to the GPs and to simply withdraw your services at a moments notice is unacceptable I beg to differ........... the SGP website promotes the championship whether the GP's are being organised by BSI or not........... they work with the media and are the focal point for any news releases, information. It is most certainly their responsibility to relay to the fans what the situation is with the tickets.................................whether PZM are due to carry the burden of the refund is a different matter entirely and clearly this is the reason why they immediately went on the front foot with speed sport and BSI Yes completely unacceptable.... but I think the ship has sailed where the riders will be held responsible now that the official party line of 'We respect the FIM Jury decision to call the result after heat 12 due to the track conditions' has been trundled out............ unless of course the FIM start fighting their corner..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolskiZuzel Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 I am intrigued by Polish Law. Apparently in compensation, they are requesting that "slag adequately atone" They also states that there is legal precedent, as "Holder was rubbish, and he rides that terrible Poole track all the time". They further added that Ole Olsen will play the next Bond villain. [this paragraph may not be true] ... and I am intrigued by Google translator. If you require any translation ask a sworn translator, not Google. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 I beg to differ........... the SGP website promotes the championship whether the GP's are being organised by BSI or not........... they work with the media and are the focal point for any news releases, information. It is most certainly their responsibility to relay to the fans what the situation is with the tickets.................................whether PZM are due to carry the burden of the refund is a different matter entirely and clearly this is the reason why they immediately went on the front foot with speed sport and BSI Yes completely unacceptable.... but I think the ship has sailed where the riders will be held responsible now that the official party line of 'We respect the FIM Jury decision to call the result after heat 12 due to the track conditions' has been trundled out............ unless of course the FIM start fighting their corner..... The repercussions I was suggesting as far as the riders go would be the withholding of prize monies for this event. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 The repercussions I was suggesting as far as the riders go would be the withholding of prize monies for this event. gotcha...... well if found 'responsible' for the mess I think they could count themselves quite lucky if that was all they were to lose ...... that Jury decision line will be the line used for all of them now apart from PZM & the FIM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Central Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 You are probably correct,but trying to tell everybody about their success story is this situation is in poor taste IMO Spot on. Whilst Bellamy's first statement was, rightly, heavily influenced by IMG lawyers. This one is is just taking the p!ss. It is the prose equivalent of sending 15 riders out on a lap 'of honour' in Warsaw, just after they have got the meeting cancelled. Arrogant and contemptuous. Spin doctors must be strung up from the nearest lamppost . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 (edited) Spot on. Spin doctors must be strung up from the nearest lamppost . Phillipe has been quiet for a while - has he been spin doctoring...? Edited April 22, 2015 by Humphrey Appleby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Central Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 Phillipe has been quiet for a while - has he been spin doctoring...? I've checked the lamp furniture in Surbiton. No white-haired journos dangling as yet. Tomorrow!! Then it may be different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sotonian Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 I hope he's busy penning this week's no holds barred expose for the Star. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 (edited) Ole Olsen has ridden a speedway bike. He has won many World Titles. He has prepared more tracks than most. Yet a few people on here seem to be arguing with his expert opinion. Thats odd. As I don't believe they have won as much as him on a speedway bike or preped as many tracks. Olsen has not produced that many good Tracks....................................... what you are talking about there Midland Red is unbeatable rider power most of us arent stupid........ we have memory banks of umpteen matches meetings and races and in most instances could provide an opinion on conditions......................... then some of us have also been riders ............ and some have also been officials........................ the suggestion that only the 18 riders on the night should have an opinion on whether the track was dangerous is over the top................. should they have an opinion? yes of course very much so and the officials should carefully listen and consider............... should whatever the riders say goes? no that would be ludicrous As is a lot of the reaction on here. I really do hope we find out the real details for the cancellation of this Event. I don't want to upset BW so I will say yes - it could have been Rider power - but - it could be other things as well. I really hope that Speedway Star does an in depth investigation as to what went on. Search for the actual truth. Well - I can always hope......................................... BSI released another statement: http://speedwaygp.com/news/article/4063/update-from-bsi-speedway This lot really are the pits. They should be got out of Speedway forthwith. It has never been the same since they came on board. Edited April 22, 2015 by The White Knight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wigtoncomet Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 I was at the GP and would just like to make a few comments because I,m so peed off. It was a complete shambles from the first race. What makes it even worse is the leading officials of the meeting were British...what an embarrassment. why was there not a second starting gate in place like at cardiff in previous years?.. Even Workington have a double starting gate. Why did the shale have to come from the UK?..Is it true that a meeting has to complete 16 heats to be declared a result?..I,m thinking back to a rainy meeting GP in Gothenburg some years ago... I,m just interested in peoples thoughts..we had VIP tickets so even a portion of that back would be quite a few quid as there were four of us. Has anyone any thoughts on having a completely new form of starting gate?..the current starting gate idea must be over 50 years old. In today's high tech world there must be something better?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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