Warsaw Gp Saturday 18th April

[spook]

I don't think anyone really feels that was the case, but the lack of public comments from BSI suggests they are not considering the fans who paid to attend. Even if they can't refund, they should at least offer all those who purchased tickets free admittance to another GP in the next two seasons.

 

From what I can see there are indications that a refund to the fans IS due:

 

FIM rules clearly state the result can be awarded after either 12 or 16 heats if the meeting is ended before 20

 

 

 

http://www.fim-live....way-grand-prix/

 

077.1.4.1

 

2. If the meeting is interrupted before heat 20 is accomplished and the

remaining heats cannot be completed, then the race points scored at

the completion of heat 12 or 16 (whichever applies) will determine the

result.

In the event of a tie in the points scored at the completion of Heat 12

or 16 (whichever applies) the finishing order will be determined by the

formula set out in Art. 077.9.2.

 

SGP ticket terms and conditions for Cardiff & Malilla (conditions for other GP's not shown) state:

 

 

http://www.speedwayg...hc_location=ufi

 

Should the event be interrupted after the completion of heat 16 no refund of the ticket price or any additional expenditure shall be made to the ticket holder.

FIM Speedway World Championship Grand Prix Regulations state that the race points scored at the completion of heat 16 will be sufficient to determine the result and the meeting can be deemed complete.

 

I dont see how they are able to refuse refunding the fans

 

 

Unless ive missed something it would also indicate why PZM want to take legal action against BSI...... unless they are concerned about future ticket sales considering their 3 year contract

 

 

[Sotonian]

I would never slag the riders off, they risk there lives to entertain us we should never forget that.

Not that old chestnut again. They do it because it's their job and they get paid.

[stratton]

How entertained did you feel from heat 13 onwards?

I am glad it was called off an absolute shambles of a event.

[oldace]

I am glad it was called off an absolute shambles of a event.

 

 

The only part that could be termed a shambles was the starting tapes not working, and it need not have been an issue. By the interval I thought it was shaping up to be a pretty good GP

[BWitcher]

I am glad it was called off an absolute shambles of a event.

 

You're right. Nothing worse than seeing entertaining speedway racing with passing.

 

I want processional racing!!

[spook]

 

When was this 'deterioration'?

 

Trouble was around the corner because the riders wanted trouble.

 

It seems they tried and failed to get it called of over the green light issue so went to Plan B which was the track.

I dont know what to say Bwitcher.... other than please read this again as a response to your first two lines

 

 

 

but I had been thinking since around ht5 that trouble was around the corner

 

SCB asked for opinion and I gave mine ....

 

I do agree with you to some extent about the riders...... they were clearly wound up about practice..... and I think they all wanted to start their championships off with what they would consider a fair crack or 'normal........... something they didnt get with the starts and something they decided they either werent getting with the track or werent going to get

 

Like I say i'll watch it again later but I dont remember everything being fine and dandy at all.... and even pushing aside practice & the reffing decisions & just focussing on the racing, the riders were being asked to deal with circumstances and conditions which would make them adapt or fail

[Humphrey Appleby]

an apology would be expected by them no matter the situation

An apology from BSI would be meaningless and I don't honestly see how it would make any difference to the situation. It's hardly the first fiasco, nor is it even an irregular occurrence.

 

It would be like me keeping taking money to deliver a product, and then only occasionally delivering it, delivering it to the wrong address, or only delivering part of the consignment... over-and-over again, and then apologising, saying that lessons have been learned and it'll never happen again...

 

Not until the next time.

[spook]

I'm not saying all was perfect. We were all pissed off by the inept referee and the ineptitude of the person who was in charge of the tapes. The track was not billiard table smooth either but it was just a little, not evenly a lot, of a challenge. But hey, we're told this is the best 16 riders in the World - surely they can over come that?!

the ineptitude shown by all on the night was staggering...... when the ref... the race director and the members of that grand jury cant snap the evening out of the swan dive it was taking, there is a huge problem

 

I was impressed by Greg & how he was dealing with conditions ..... clearly they are not the conditions he would like, and barring one rut which seemed to cost him a place, he was getting on with it .............

 

Obviously we dont know much about just who was involved in that meeting room....... but it is easy to look down the list of riders (and points on the board) and come to some decisions about who would be likely to want the racing stopped.......... anyone with a low score...... anyone who were likely to keep the same low score............. anyone injured............ any of the expected top 5 guys who were not matching NKI & Jarek...................... that would easily be a majority

Edited April 21, 2015 by spook

[BWitcher]

I dont know what to say Bwitcher.... other than please read this again as a response to your first two lines

 

 

SCB asked for opinion and I gave mine ....

 

I do agree with you to some extent about the riders...... they were clearly wound up about practice..... and I think they all wanted to start their championships off with what they would consider a fair crack or 'normal........... something they didnt get with the starts and something they decided they either werent getting with the track or werent going to get

 

Like I say i'll watch it again later but I dont remember everything being fine and dandy at all.... and even pushing aside practice & the reffing decisions & just focussing on the racing, the riders were being asked to deal with circumstances and conditions which would make them adapt or fail

 

Practice was fine, the riders practiced Saturday morning and said there were no issues with the track.

 

The starts were fair for all, in fact they were the fairest starts we have seen in any GP! Bar Doyles exclusion every rider was sat perfectly still... so you are almost right, but have it twisted.. the issue was the starts WERE fair.. the advantage that some seek to gain was gone.

[Woz01]

We went into the interval, we as fans depending on where we were went to get another beer, a cup of tea, have a wee, maybe flicked over the BGT for 10 minutes. While we were doing that did a single fans, either in the stadium or at home at any point think, "this track is dangerous, this meeting is in doubt"?

 

I'll go with no.

I thought finally this meeting is warming up! Edited April 21, 2015 by woz01

[spook]

An apology from BSI would be meaningless and I don't honestly see how it would make any difference to the situation. It's hardly the first fiasco, nor is it even an irregular occurrence.

 

It would be like me keeping taking money to deliver a product, and then only occasionally delivering it, delivering it to the wrong address, or only delivering part of the consignment... over-and-over again, and then apologising, saying that lessons have been learned and it'll never happen again...

 

Not until the next time.

well they are the license holders of the speedway world championship..... and seemingly have been all about stamping a mark on which is of a slick and professional presentation (!) ..... so when something goes wrong whether they are directly to blame or not, it is their job to carry out damage limitation. I cannot remember what the meeting was, if it was a GP or SWC, but I do seem to remember Paul Bellamy a few years ago being interviewed by SKY where he did some damage limitation and informed the viewers of what had happened and why.

 

Most of us will watch other sports, & when something unusual or disastrous happens you can guarantee that the coverage will involve someone from management/officiating etc will be interviewed to explain the situation................. for example I watch a lot of MX and SX....... we have had these interviews after red flags... failed drugs tests.... black flagged rider etc etc ................. and at the very least word is given to those televising even if it is not on the record

 

complete silence after such visible ineptitude and mutiny... and then a response which mostly seems to revolve around a key line passing the buck does not look sincere or have any kind of understanding of the damage that was just carried out

 

imo the day people stop apologising is the day they are arrogant or entitled Humphrey

[Steve_R]

Even without all the problems, a GP meeting is far too slow moving.

 

Why, when there is a simple false start, do the riders not go straight back to the tapes? Why are they allowed to go back to the pits and start fiddling around with their bikes , and then a new 2 minute timer starts? They should be given something like 45 seconds to get back to the tapes, and not allowed back to the pits.

 

Likewise with a 1st bend faller. When they are clear from the track and everything is deemed OK with the air fence etc, the other riders should be ready to go straight away.

 

I lost count exactly, but it took something like 90 minutes for about 7 or 8 heats. Not all of that was down to the starting gate nonsence.

 

Why, given the prolonged nature of Saturdays meeting, was there still a track grading break after the first and second round of heats. Surely the grading could have been done whilst the whole meeting was delayed due tot he other issues?

 

Why would anyone other than a hardcore speedway fan sit thorough that on TV? I always let the meeting run for an hour before watching it on catch up, so I can fast forward through all the pointless delays. Watching the whole thing live on Satuday would have been purgetory.

[f-s-p]

http://sgpnarodowy.pl/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Zasady-zakupu-biletu-i-uczestnictwa-w-imprezie1.pdf

 

Section 6 e.

 

6. The event organizer has power to:

a. refuse the buyer the admittance to the event – in cases designated in the law of 20 March 2009 of safety and security of mass events;

b. forbid the participant to record the course of the event in any way, also forbid to bring in devices that enable recording by any process ( photocameras, camcoders etc.)

c. ban on bringing in particular articles to the area of the event– bottles with beverages, treebeards, trumpets etc.;

d. change the designated place or seating, that can be taken authorized by the ticket;

e. make changes in the programme, agenda, time, date of the event or to cancel the event entirely;

[BWitcher]

well they are the license holders of the speedway world championship..... and seemingly have been all about stamping a mark on which is of a slick and professional presentation (!) ..... so when something goes wrong whether they are directly to blame or not, it is their job to carry out damage limitation. I cannot remember what the meeting was, if it was a GP or SWC, but I do seem to remember Paul Bellamy a few years ago being interviewed by SKY where he did some damage limitation and informed the viewers of what had happened and why.

 

Most of us will watch other sports, & when something unusual or disastrous happens you can guarantee that the coverage will involve someone from management/officiating etc will be interviewed to explain the situation................. for example I watch a lot of MX and SX....... we have had these interviews after red flags... failed drugs tests.... black flagged rider etc etc ................. and at the very least word is given to those televising even if it is not on the record

 

complete silence after such visible ineptitude and mutiny... and then a response which mostly seems to revolve around a key line passing the buck does not look sincere or have any kind of understanding of the damage that was just carried out

 

imo the day people stop apologising is the day they are arrogant or entitled Humphrey

 

Which brings me back to the point of there being more to this than meets the eye.

 

If the track truly was so dangerous, as said we would all have seen it. The commentators would have seen it. Tatum, Nicholls even Pearson would have noticed it. Yet they hadn't even remotely considered the possibility that the meeting was going to get called off.

 

Had it been so dangerous I am sure there would have been an immediate apology as well.

 

However, when you have a situation where suddenly riders are refusing to ride on a perfectly raceable track where does that leave the organisers? Point the finger at the riders and this is going to happen again... remember, there is another company lurking, waiting to muscle in on the scene... certain riders have already effectively jumped ship..

 

So basically they are left in a situation of having to try and apologise and take the flak for something that they haven't caused. They didn't cancel the meeting. The riders went on strike.,

Even without all the problems, a GP meeting is far too slow moving.

 

Why, when there is a simple false start, do the riders not go straight back to the tapes? Why are they allowed to go back to the pits and start fiddling around with their bikes , and then a new 2 minute timer starts? They should be given something like 45 seconds to get back to the tapes, and not allowed back to the pits.

 

 

 

It was stated at the start of the GP that they weren't allowed to return to the pits anymore.

 

Yet once again we saw riders taking the law into their own hands when Doyle jumped the green light. He wasn't excluded at first.. Not until Nicki Pedersen left the track and got on the phone to the referee to complain. Then a good 2 mins later Doyle was suddenly excluded. That was the beginning of the end. Pedersen should NOT have been allowed to leave the track, the 2 min warning should have been on immediately and if he wanted to complain in the pits he'd be excluded.

[Grand Central]

The starts were fair for all, in fact they were the fairest starts we have seen in any GP! Bar Doyles exclusion every rider was sat perfectly still... so you are almost right, but have it twisted.. the issue was the starts WERE fair.. the advantage that some seek to gain was gone.

I tend to feel that this was the most important point of the lot.

The green light starts worked well, they were fair.

 

But way way TOO fair.

They were different from the 'ordinary' for ALL riders.

Comfort zones were compromised.

 

The lack of steel (or too much Steele and Lawrence) in the jury.

That's not fair.

Not fair on us.

[DutchGrasstrack]

[...]

Nice find. So apperently all the GP's have different ticket TOC's

[spook]

 

Practice was fine, the riders practiced Saturday morning and said there were no issues with the track.

 

The starts were fair for all, in fact they were the fairest starts we have seen in any GP! Bar Doyles exclusion every rider was sat perfectly still... so you are almost right, but have it twisted.. the issue was the starts WERE fair.. the advantage that some seek to gain was gone.

 

yes the starts were fair for all..... but the starts werent normal and the guy who does not adapt is dead in the water..............

Fridays practice was not fine at all and clearly the riders were unhappy............. I think we can roughly imagine the conversations that were taking place between riders and officials and the promises being made about the track improving

 

There is no doubt that they should have carried on and completed the meeting and at that point didnt have enough of an argument ............... but I think it is fair to say that it was not the 'normal' night of racing that most of them would have wanted in Rd1................. unfortunately they were allowed to pull rider power, if they had been dealt with better they would have had a reminder that adapting could be the key word in any round........... as others have mentioned we also have issues with what constitutes a dangerous surface now

[BWitcher]

I tend to feel that this was the most important point of the lot.

The green light starts worked well, they were fair.

 

But way way TOO fair.

They were different from the 'ordinary' for ALL riders.

Comfort zones were compromised.

 

The lack of steel (or too much Steele and Lawrence) in the jury.

That's not fair.

Not fair on us.

 

100% it was the issue... . hence the big delay earlier in the meeting.

 

No doubt they then found out if they got to Heat 12 the result would stand.. and that's what they did.

 

However the riders know they would look like complete prats if they came out and gave that as their reason for not continuing.. so they went behind closed doors, shut up shop until they had concocted their story. Dangerous track should work well! That'll convince the lackeys.

 

And so it has.

[f-s-p]

Nice find. So apperently all the GP's have different ticket TOC's

I thought it was weird we were quoted UK law at the briefings on both days... But it was a PZM event and tickets were sold by Kupbilet, so different set of rules. Or might be.

[Humphrey Appleby]

e that was just carried out

imo the day people stop apologising is the day they are arrogant or entitled Humphrey

Silly comment - try reading people's posts properly.

 

Who has suggested that BSI are not responsible or shouldn't be called to account, but far too many people today run around demanding apologies that are meaningless. I couldn't care less what BSI say, or what damage limitation they try to do - they clearly do not learn lessons from their mistakes or lack of supervision, or they're simply not up to the job required.