Kent 2015

[Hunters]

A bit unfair on Alf Hagon he was more than reserve status. I saw him every week in the mid fifties and he was a very competent second string in a league of few teams which included virtually all the World finalists at the time.

From memory and without bothering to look it up I think he partnered Jack Geran.

[flipper11]

Be interesting to see how the current world grasstrack champion gets on on the shale in the premier league or will he be another grass/longtrack specialist.

[robolots]

It's Couzins, not Cousins or Couzens.

 

Jamie has ridden in the MDL last year, he turned out for Rye House on a few occasions. He has also ridden at Eastbourne.

He would of rode for Lakeside in their Anglian League team a few years ago, but unfortunately broke his collar bone playing football which essentially ended that season, so he then decided to concentrate on getting a trade and is currently in his last year of his mechanics apprenticeship.

At round the time he was regularly riding at Lakeside he was riding with Jack Kingston a lot and I would say they were on par with each other. Jack obviously carried on riding and has improved year on year, so I see no reason why with a little bit of luck (we all need that sometimes) and determination that he wont progress.

 

Along with his mum and dad they are making sure Jamie has the best equipment that he / they can possibly afford so that he will be competitive.

He is under no illusions that it's going to be easy or cheap, but only wanted to ride when he knew that he could give it a good shot both in regards of time and finances. He has a good team around him and will be calling on the help and advice of professionals on both side of air fence throughout the year.

 

All he is asking for is a fair crack of the whip! no more, no less.

[Nikko]

Just wanted to say the above post is one of the most sensible and articulate I have seen on here for a very long time.

 

Good luck to the lad.

[teaboy279]

It's Couzins, not Cousins or Couzens.

 

Jamie has ridden in the MDL last year, he turned out for Rye House on a few occasions. He has also ridden at Eastbourne.

He would of rode for Lakeside in their Anglian League team a few years ago, but unfortunately broke his collar bone playing football which essentially ended that season, so he then decided to concentrate on getting a trade and is currently in his last year of his mechanics apprenticeship.

At round the time he was regularly riding at Lakeside he was riding with Jack Kingston a lot and I would say they were on par with each other. Jack obviously carried on riding and has improved year on year, so I see no reason why with a little bit of luck (we all need that sometimes) and determination that he wont progress.

 

Along with his mum and dad they are making sure Jamie has the best equipment that he / they can possibly afford so that he will be competitive.

He is under no illusions that it's going to be easy or cheap, but only wanted to ride when he knew that he could give it a good shot both in regards of time and finances. He has a good team around him and will be calling on the help and advice of professionals on both side of air fence throughout the year.

 

All he is asking for is a fair crack of the whip! no more, no less.

 

As an ever present home and regular away fan all I can say is I give all 7/8 riders in a kings jacket my full support. As I have stated previously my choice of reserves are Jamie and Liam. I get the impression you know Jamie and if this is the case let him know after his second half rides I consider him part of the family already and will be proud to cheer him on this season.

[Rebel1]

That's not how I see Alf Hagon's speedway career!

http://www.speedwayatoz.co.uk/alfhagon.html

Not sure that the statistics are doing anything other than substantiating my thoughts. Peaked in 1957! Just under 7 points! I will take nothing away from any man who puts his life on the line when he takes to the track, however, I still believe he was a master on the grass and not the shale. Cannot say too much about the quarter mile records they speak for themselves as do the engineering feats.

[Hunters]

I have to take issue with you Rebel1

 

Alf Hagon was a lot more than a reserve. An average of just under 7 would have been one of the better second strings in 1957, in fact they would love it in the Elite now. And the league was stronger then. If you look at his heat details he beat the likes of Dick Bradley, Split Waterman, Jack Young. Aub Lawson ,Peter Moore along with many others and seemed to have the Evil Eye on Arthur Forrest, Nigel Boocock and Ron How who he beat often. In 1957 he beat both Peter Craven and Ron Johnston in the match against Belle Vue and in 1960 probably his finest hour when despite losing the match he beat both Craven and Johnston twice each for a 15 point maximum whilst Ken McKinlay or anybody else failed to beat either of them.

He even managed some good scores away. outpointing Ken McKinlay with double figures at Wimbeldon and a paid 15 at Coventry.

It is true he could be inconsistent but I notice he seemed to fall away in the summer and then come good again next Spring. I suspect this was down to concentrating on retaining grass track championships where he was a master class,

 

I don't know why this hit a nerve because I was not a particular fan of Alf but to say he only really made reserve status is very wrong.

[SCB]

So he once scored a 15 point maximum but still couldvt average more than 6.08? Take away that maximum and that season he averaged 4.48.

 

It's looks to me like he was a 4.5 rider who from time to time threw in a great meeting. 4.5 men are generally reserves.

[Rebel1]

I have to take issue with you Rebel1

 

Alf Hagon was a lot more than a reserve. An average of just under 7 would have been one of the better second strings in 1957, in fact they would love it in the Elite now. And the league was stronger then. If you look at his heat details he beat the likes of Dick Bradley, Split Waterman, Jack Young. Aub Lawson ,Peter Moore along with many others and seemed to have the Evil Eye on Arthur Forrest, Nigel Boocock and Ron How who he beat often. In 1957 he beat both Peter Craven and Ron Johnston in the match against Belle Vue and in 1960 probably his finest hour when despite losing the match he beat both Craven and Johnston twice each for a 15 point maximum whilst Ken McKinlay or anybody else failed to beat either of them.

He even managed some good scores away. outpointing Ken McKinlay with double figures at Wimbeldon and a paid 15 at Coventry.

It is true he could be inconsistent but I notice he seemed to fall away in the summer and then come good again next Spring. I suspect this was down to concentrating on retaining grass track championships where he was a master class,

 

I don't know why this hit a nerve because I was not a particular fan of Alf but to say he only really made reserve status is very wrong.

 

Still think he was more a grass man than a shale man Hunters. One season does not a speedway rider make! He overall in his shale career never hit the heat leader status which does require consistency. For whatever reason, as you yourself say, he fell away during the grass season.

[Ron]

So, does anybody know the whereabouts of Danny Ayres?

[Wiseguy]

So, does anybody know the whereabouts of Danny Ayres?

Why, has he gone AWOL? where did you hear this

[Hunters]

 

Still think he was more a grass man than a shale man Hunters. One season does not a speedway rider make! He overall in his shale career never hit the heat leader status which does require consistency. For whatever reason, as you yourself say, he fell away during the grass season.

Never any doubt he was better on grass, his record proved it. That was not the point.

I took issue with the ' reserve status' .

So he once scored a 15 point maximum but still couldvt average more than 6.08? Take away that maximum and that season he averaged 4.48.

 

It's looks to me like he was a 4.5 rider who from time to time threw in a great meeting. 4.5 men are generally reserves.

You obviously have no understanding of the situation in the 1950's which look to be well before your time.

 

I wonder why you even poked your nose in. Presumably just trying to be controversial or perhaps looking to be the next Shovlar.

[TurnTwo]

has ayres gone awol?!?! not good start for the kings if mullins has dropped them already!!

[SCB]

You obviously have no understanding of the situation in the 1950's which look to be well before your time.

 

I wonder why you even poked your nose in. Presumably just trying to be controversial or perhaps looking to be the next Shovlar.

I suggest you look up what a discussion forum is. Nobody is "poking their nose in" on a public forum! It was suggested he was a reserve standard rider, 4.5-5.5 averages as he generally achieved would have made him a reserve standard rider would it not?

[Hunters]

So he once scored a 15 point maximum but still couldvt average more than 6.08? Take away that maximum and that season he averaged 4.48.

 

It's looks to me like he was a 4.5 rider who from time to time threw in a great meeting. 4.5 men are generally reserves.

Even a mathematical genius could not take 15 points and 5 rides from a full seasons total and drop the average by 1.6 points. It looks so obviously ridiculous. So much for creditability.

The correct statistic is 159 League points from 104 rides giving a GSA of 6.11. Adjusting for the maximum would have made it 144 points from 99 rides giving a GSA of 5.81.

[Hunters]

I suggest you look up what a discussion forum is. Nobody is "poking their nose in" on a public forum! It was suggested he was a reserve standard rider, 4.5-5.5 averages as he generally achieved would have made him a reserve standard rider would it not?

It most certainly would not, a quick look at that particular season averages gives second strings such as Mike Broadbanks (Swi) 4.16, Cyril Maidment (Wim) 5.07,Cyril Brine (Wim) 5.36, Bryan Elliott (Lei) 2.95,Harry Edwards (Nor) 4.80, Reg Duval (Cov) 5.31, Jim Tolley (Cov) 3.57,Al Allison (Bra) 4.06, Guy Alloyy (Bra) 4.61, Jimmy Squibb (Sou) 4.35, Alby Golden (Sou) 4.86, Bill Holden (Sou) 4.52, Ray Cresp (Ox) 4.20, Hoedy Byford (Ox) 4.25, Roy Bowers (Ox) 4.64, Bert Edwards (Ips) 4.43, Jimmy Gooch(Ips) 3.65, Pete Lansdale(Ray) 4.68, Peter Clark(Ray) 5.1,

Alf Hagon's 6.11 was his best year, indeed he was 35th in the overall table, but an average of 4.5/ 5.5 was very much a second string.

 

Now for the reserves, at least the more regular ones, as even a young Ivan Mauger could not hold down a reserve berth.

Bob Andrews(Wim) 2.92, Des Haswell (Lei) 0.86, Wal Morton (Nor)2.32, Geoff Pymer (Nor)3.28, Slant Payling(B Vue) 3.06, Les Owen( Cov) 3.06, Frank Johnson (Ox) 2.54, Danny Dunton (Ips) 3.09, Johnny Fitzpatrick (Ips) 2.47, Maury McDermott (Ray) 3.07. Now that was the reserve standard.

 

Now I will be the one to suggest. If you are going to chip in on the older times get some understanding of the situation. In 1950 there were 34 League teams which fell to only 11 by 1957 and 9 in 1959. Team spots were at a premium and inevitably it was the better riders who took a lot of the places making for some strong heat leader combinations. A second string usually had to ride 4 of his 5 outings against 2 quality heat leaders, his job was simply to beat his opposite number for third place. Dependent on his place in the team or Home /Away he would get either another second string or reserve as partner in his 5th race and that had to be his chance to get a pay day. If they shared the points between them all 2nd strings would struggle to beat 4.5 or so.

A 5.0 was a nights work really well done riding for most teams with a chance of a bonanza against a Rayleigh with not so strong heat leaders but more competitive second strings. Little or no chance against the likes of Wimbledon ,Norwich or Belle Vue .

 

I don't know why I have wasted my time with you but I will finish with what I started. Alf Hagon was no reserve.

[customhouseregular]

It most certainly would not, a quick look at that particular season averages gives second strings such as Mike Broadbanks (Swi) 4.16, Cyril Maidment (Wim) 5.07,Cyril Brine (Wim) 5.36, Bryan Elliott (Lei) 2.95,Harry Edwards (Nor) 4.80, Reg Duval (Cov) 5.31, Jim Tolley (Cov) 3.57,Al Allison (Bra) 4.06, Guy Alloyy (Bra) 4.61, Jimmy Squibb (Sou) 4.35, Alby Golden (Sou) 4.86, Bill Holden (Sou) 4.52, Ray Cresp (Ox) 4.20, Hoedy Byford (Ox) 4.25, Roy Bowers (Ox) 4.64, Bert Edwards (Ips) 4.43, Jimmy Gooch(Ips) 3.65, Pete Lansdale(Ray) 4.68, Peter Clark(Ray) 5.1,

Alf Hagon's 6.11 was his best year, indeed he was 35th in the overall table, but an average of 4.5/ 5.5 was very much a second string.

 

Now for the reserves, at least the more regular ones, as even a young Ivan Mauger could not hold down a reserve berth.

Bob Andrews(Wim) 2.92, Des Haswell (Lei) 0.86, Wal Morton (Nor)2.32, Geoff Pymer (Nor)3.28, Slant Payling(B Vue) 3.06, Les Owen( Cov) 3.06, Frank Johnson (Ox) 2.54, Danny Dunton (Ips) 3.09, Johnny Fitzpatrick (Ips) 2.47, Maury McDermott (Ray) 3.07. Now that was the reserve standard.

 

Now I will be the one to suggest. If you are going to chip in on the older times get some understanding of the situation. In 1950 there were 34 League teams which fell to only 11 by 1957 and 9 in 1959. Team spots were at a premium and inevitably it was the better riders who took a lot of the places making for some strong heat leader combinations. A second string usually had to ride 4 of his 5 outings against 2 quality heat leaders, his job was simply to beat his opposite number for third place. Dependent on his place in the team or Home /Away he would get either another second string or reserve as partner in his 5th race and that had to be his chance to get a pay day. If they shared the points between them all 2nd strings would struggle to beat 4.5 or so.

A 5.0 was a nights work really well done riding for most teams with a chance of a bonanza against a Rayleigh with not so strong heat leaders but more competitive second strings. Little or no chance against the likes of Wimbledon ,Norwich or Belle Vue .

 

I don't know why I have wasted my time with you but I will finish with what I started. Alf Hagon was no reserve.

An excellent post my friend and very informative.

[Ben91]

I can't wait to see how Alf Hagon does for the Kings this year.

[Parsloes 1928 nearly]

I'm all for allowing threads on any Forum to go with the flow but the Alf Hagon 'debate' has all but taken over a thread meant to be about this year's Kent SLYDE Kings.. Enough already surely now...

[TurnTwo]

Alf was and still Is a legend