arnieg Posted November 22, 2014 Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 (edited) The conversion factor should have been reduced to reflect the change in the averages of EL riders due to the new race format. Should it have been reduced from 1.6 down to 1.4? The evidence suggests it should have been reduced even more. There are 14 riders who have EL and PL averages thanks to doubling up. Their conversion factors range from Ricky Wells (ratio of PL av to EL av 1.10) to Lasse Bjerre (with a ratio of 1.86). Mean ratio = 1.36 Sum of PL avs divided by sum of EL avs = 1.35 Median ratio = 1.30 Mid point of inter quartile range: 1.33 [1.44-1.26] That would suggest the fair conversion factor, that is an accurate reflection in the difference between the leagues, would be 1.33333 ie Add one third to EL average to get converted figure Subtract one quarter going from PL to EL Data: ............EL....PL...ratio Stead 6.92 9.96 1.44 Cook 6.21 9.19 1.48 Barker 5.85 8.91 1.52 King 6.74 8.84 1.31 L Bjerre 4.66 8.65 1.86 Lawson 6.5 8.22 1.26 Morris 6.31 8.14 1.29 Grajczonek 6.4 8.11 1.27 Fisher 5.39 7.89 1.46 R Worrall 5.53 7.32 1.32 Klindt 5.16 6.68 1.29 Howarth 5.27 6.57 1.25 Wells 5.88 6.49 1.10 Proctor 5.37 6.27 1.17 Edited November 22, 2014 by arnieg 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenga Posted November 22, 2014 Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 the truth/facts are on the unofficial comets site , run by the official workington speedway promotion. see steves post, (hansen signs for workington thread. all will be relieved as per agm. stop moaning. its the facts. .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MANSE Posted November 22, 2014 Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 Ithought it was any rider with average over 6 and did not have a PL average would not be allowed to double up.There is enough riders for double up and down at present. How many matches are you going to get with 6 EL riders and 8 PL riders. I thought it was called Elite League.How many leagues does Schlein want to ride in as people say you want him as a guest rider not a asset Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
me2 Posted November 22, 2014 Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 the truth/facts are on the unofficial comets site , run by the official workington speedway promotion. see steves post, (hansen signs for workington thread. all will be relieved as per agm. stop moaning. its the facts. .. I don't doubt it's the facts, but we only find out about it when someone finds it on the unofficial Comets website. Whatever the reason for the change, you'd have thought it was worth mentioning in their statement. Maybe they think we're too stupid to understand it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenga Posted November 22, 2014 Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 its something to do with the elite league being weaker in 2014.( not my words ) and the only wat out of the situation they put themselves in was to alter the figures of conversion from 1.6 to 1.4.. another rule that existes , but wont surface until someone want to use it..we all know the elete is lite and nowhere near brill. its just the bspa way of moving the goal posts.. till next year.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontforgetthefueltapsbruv Posted November 22, 2014 Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 It is arguably the most important change of the winter in PL terms. If a PL team chose to go for 3 EL riders they would effectively be building to 45.5 rather than 42.5 in comparison to the old conversion. Given that it shouldve been one of the main points of the statement. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenga Posted November 22, 2014 Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 as i said before,, ,, way above me.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontforgetthefueltapsbruv Posted November 22, 2014 Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 It is a puzzling change as it only benefits EL second strings looking to go PL. PL heat leaders have effectively had their EL average inflated. There are only a handfull of riders that are affected in the EL once you take our existing d/u riders who will have a valld PL average anyway. From what I can see only 1 of these is British. Why are we making it easier for Danes,Finns and Swedes to drop into the PL? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2ndbendbeerhut Posted November 22, 2014 Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 (edited) So this will mean that any rider with a EL average under 6 is now open to the "new and improved" average conversion? That includes riders missing from 2014 then? some good out there with interesting aves now then........ Thomas H Jonasson finished 2013 on 5.69 new PL average of 7.97 Others: Robert Miskowiak 7.15 Dennis Gizatulin 6.27 Jonas Davidsson 8.30 Jesper B Monberg 6.44 Dennis Andersson 7.60 Dawid Lampart 6.41 Edited November 22, 2014 by 2ndbendbeerhut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scaramanga Posted November 22, 2014 Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 (edited) copy of the post on workington forum below Right, there seems to be confusion everywhere on the change in conversion rate so I will explain the logic. (could someone share this with the BSF).At the Pre-AGM the "weakening" of the Elite League in 2014 with use of fast track and the change in race format meant that the old conversion rate (1.6 x EL average = PL assessed average) was outdated and needed looked at.We looked at all the data available from the EL stats and tried to correlate between averages achieved by the PL riders in the EL and their performances in the PL, the issue was that riders in a second string position in the EL got somewhat "easier" rides. After reviewing the figures it was noted that the overall standard of the EL was closer than previous and to keep the 1.6 conversion would exclude some riders from riding in the PL. The data indicated the conversion should actually be between 1.3 and 1.4At the AGM the proposal was therefore made to reduce the conversion from 1.6 to 1.4 of any rider who wanted to "drop" into the Premier League. This of course caused an issue from the top end of the EL as well who in theory had "harder" rides due to the race format and we needed to make sure that this was not an issue. IT was therefore proposed and accepted that only riders with a current EL average of 6 or less could drop into the PL.I don't like using the word drop as it indicates a different level and standard between the 2 leagues and for several reasons I believe the 2 leagues to be closer in standard than ever now, in fact, in my opinion we no longer have two tears of professional speedway but 2 different leagues.All these riders who now want to ride in the PL have had the opportunity in the past and have not seen it as the "right thing to do", their chance may have gone or they may have to wait to get a less than 6 average!.The whole thing is about ensuring going forward the PL remains a strong product as well as ensuring that PL teams bring talent through.The conversion rates from PL to EL did not change as this was not discussed by the EL promoters so anyone moving from PL to EL will still be converted at the old rate.Hope this clarifies. its clear to see the elite league was a easy option for most prem league riders last year most of them scored more in the elite than they did for there prem leagu clubs even prem league reserves could easily score 10 points in the eliete league at times proberbly 1 off the most sensible rule changes they have made in years The conversion factor should have been reduced to reflect the change in the averages of EL riders due to the new race format. Should it have been reduced from 1.6 down to 1.4? The evidence suggests it should have been reduced even more. There are 14 riders who have EL and PL averages thanks to doubling up. Their conversion factors range from Ricky Wells (ratio of PL av to EL av 1.10) to Lasse Bjerre (with a ratio of 1.86). Mean ratio = 1.36 Sum of PL avs divided by sum of EL avs = 1.35 Median ratio = 1.30 Mid point of inter quartile range: 1.33 [1.44-1.26] That would suggest the fair conversion factor, that is an accurate reflection in the difference between the leagues, would be 1.33333 ie Add one third to EL average to get converted figure Subtract one quarter going from PL to EL Data: ............EL....PL...ratio Stead 6.92 9.96 1.44 Cook 6.21 9.19 1.48 Barker 5.85 8.91 1.52 King 6.74 8.84 1.31 L Bjerre 4.66 8.65 1.86 Lawson 6.5 8.22 1.26 Morris 6.31 8.14 1.29 Grajczonek 6.4 8.11 1.27 Fisher 5.39 7.89 1.46 R Worrall 5.53 7.32 1.32 Klindt 5.16 6.68 1.29 Howarth 5.27 6.57 1.25 Wells 5.88 6.49 1.10 Proctor 5.37 6.27 1.17 good post and very sensibly worked out obviously different people will have different views regarding on if its a good rider signing for there team or a opposing team the eliete leagus is very poor in my opinion and some riders are scoring more points than they should so its only right the conversion is looked at your figures prove theyve done this and are not too far away from how it should be Edited November 22, 2014 by scarra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontforgetthefueltapsbruv Posted November 22, 2014 Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 So the rate change is only one way which would be better news for any PL riders looking to go Elite for the first time. So at least Poole get Brady Kurtz at a point lower than it would've been with a complete change! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scaramanga Posted November 22, 2014 Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 riders going up will still be the same the reduction is for riders dropping down Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romans lovechild Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 (edited) this sport is getting too confusing with all the changes........I think im going to be a footballer instead then I can play for a team in the prem, div 1, and the conference.......oh I cant cos all games take place on the same day, now that's not a bad idea at all. Edited November 23, 2014 by romans lovechild Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontforgetthefueltapsbruv Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 riders going up will still be the same the reduction is for riders dropping down but using the logic for the change downwards it should be applied both ways. If it is so much easier to score points in the second string position in the EL . By the new rules for example Josh G is too good to drop down if he didnt already d/u at about 6.5 His PL average 8.11. So if Rohan Tungate wants to move up - PL average 8.36 very similar to JG. In the 'old world' he did d/u in the same team as JG with a sinikar average. Had the new conversion rate been applied both ways his ne EL average would be about 6. Leaving the upward rate as was he would be about 5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenga Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 (edited) riders who alreadty have an official P.L. average are NOT affected,, Edited November 23, 2014 by jenga Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnieg Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 but using the logic for the change downwards it should be applied both ways. If it is so much easier to score points in the second string position in the EL . By the new rules for example Josh G is too good to drop down if he didnt already d/u at about 6.5 His PL average 8.11. So if Rohan Tungate wants to move up - PL average 8.36 very similar to JG. In the 'old world' he did d/u in the same team as JG with a sinikar average. Had the new conversion rate been applied both ways his ne EL average would be about 6. Leaving the upward rate as was he would be about 5. I agree wholeheartedly, but I think we are going to be sadly disappointed if we expect logic from the BSPA 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontforgetthefueltapsbruv Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 riders who alreadty have an official P.L. average are NOT affected,,thats not what I said. Josh G and Rohan are simply a good comparison as they have very similar PL averages in 2014 and had similar 2013 averages in the EL. They are therefore an excellent example to guage the conversion rate. Under the new regs they would have very similar PL averages but Rohan would be a point and a half lower in the EL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenga Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 down not up.... i give up.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 The restriction on EL riders on 6+ averages 'doubling down' is because the PL promoters were worried about affording their wages - it states as much in the SS summary this week. Similarly the EL restriction on only 2 riders above 7 points is because some (not all) promotions cannot afford more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulco Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 Why does speedway need to be so ruddy complicated ? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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