More Tinkering At The Agm

[orion]

No Poole are in the envious position of not having to compete with any other major sports

 

in the area.Take the west midlands,speedway has to compete with Aston Villa, Birmingham City, West Bromwich Albion

 

Wolverhampton plus other smaller clubs and that's only in spring and autumn during the summer

 

its Warwickshire and Worcestershire county cricket. You don't really have to promote,the punters come

 

because there is no other top class sport around.

Pretty lame . First of all Football is mainly in the winter plus Poole is close to decent football clubs as well also Hampshire cricket is not a million miles a way .

 

As has been said many times Poole never had big crowds all the time . . The big advantage I would say is that the track is nearly in the centre of Poole .

Edited November 18, 2014 by orion

[thehammer]

Why not put out a poster every week via Facebook and twitter with all EL fixtures that we can share and like I suggested on another thread a promotional video?

Even if local teams did this that would help as people can easily share or retweet!

 

Social Media is the current easiest way to help promote things

[Woz01]

Don't forget the Jets, Warren!

Of course! Just shows how much sport is going on in Coventry.

[ytsejam]

Agree with some of what you say, but, and it's a huge but..... In the 60's, 70's and 80's, reserves were reserves, and I certainly do not remember reserves scoring 10, 12 or 15 point hauls week in week out! That was a development of the 90's and much scorned by true Speedway Supporters, those bloody ringer reserves, that should never ever have been at reserve, shoe horned in on false averages and manipulated....... One of the firsts signs of canker that infected Speedway and made it the sick, bed-ridden sport it is today...

Rant over....

 

So very true and a point so obviously missed by so many in here!. Basically these days, the performances of the 2 reserves more often than not decide which team wins the match. Look at how many meetings last year were won/lost by say 8 points or less and then look at the totals scored between the winning teams 2 reserves and the losing teams and 8/10 the difference in the totals were MORE than the actual difference in the scores.

Now, there ARE some good points about the fast track system but surely the worst thing about it is that NO account of the FTR's averages during the season is taken account of. What benefit is yet another season of being at number 6 for the likes of Newman, Garrity, Kerr etc is there going to be when they are still going to be regularly competing against other FTR's more than against heat leaders? Yes, for maybe really young and new riders aged 16 or 17, its a good idea to keep them as a reserve all season (to gain experience) but Newman and Kerr will be in their mid 20's next season and IF they are to seriously improve, then IF and when their averages dictate, then they should move up into the main body of the team and be against better quality riders more often....just like the reserve places always used to. That way, maybe the reserves won't be determining the overall match result nearly ever meeting like they did last year.

No Poole are in the envious position of not having to compete with any other major sports

 

in the area.Take the west midlands,speedway has to compete with Aston Villa, Birmingham City, West Bromwich Albion

 

Wolverhampton plus other smaller clubs and that's only in spring and autumn during the summer

 

its Warwickshire and Worcestershire county cricket. You don't really have to promote,the punters come

 

because there is no other top class sport around.

 

Thats true to a point but not really much of a valid excuse!!....Poole is nearer to top class Football and Cricket teams than Kings Lynn is. By your reckoning that should mean that Lynn is full to bursting each week!!

[E I Addio]

 

As has been said many times Poole never always got big crowds . The big advantage I would say is that the track is nearly in the centre of Poole .

Plus the fact that Poole seem to have a pretty good local paper that gives some fairly in depth coverage on a regular basis. Most clubs are out of town and seem to get a few brief match reports in a free paper and that's all.

[Starman2006]

poole have got a bigger budget than others

 

success brings in the fans add to that exciting racers like holder/ward and its easy to see why they get decent crowds

 

And why? Because Matt Ford does his job, very well. He also brings in riders with potential, which before i get jumped on, were avaliable to other clubs !!

[stevebrum]

I thought they said the format was being tweaked again, to give the #6 some tougher rides (to reflect their likely higher standard).

 

 

Hadn't read that. I just saw the bit about the format being tweaked because of the away number 4 not going out till heat 5, and up against home top 2.

[ytsejam]

I thought they said the format was being tweaked again, to give the #6 some tougher rides (to reflect their likely higher standard).

 

As far as match scores are concerned, yes there were some matches decided purely on the difference in reserves - but that reflected the EL promoters' varied levels of ignorance of the quality of the available crop of young Brits. Without a doubt, some results also swung on the failures of the top 5 ...

 

In terms of age, that's not so important - a few riders make an immediate breakthrough, many others have to work at it. Lewis Blackbird will be 28 when the new season starts. The good thing is that Brits are now being given a better opportunity in their home country than they've ever had before.

 

I hadn't seen that either, so thanks for pointing it out and for a serious and sensible reply too

[john birch]

One thing I've banged on about that they did listen too was to change the playoff format in the PL to the Swedish system. Back to the EL and with only 8 teams they should have gone to 3 GB riders per team and reverted to the old heat formula. The top up and comers would still get team berths. But we are where we are so why not simply use the 1988 formula ie the old 13 ht racecard plus 2nd reserve heat and top scorers race. Heats 5 and 6 last year were ridiculous though and surely must be changed. I suggested only one tac ride but allowing choice of gates when a team was 6 in arrears. I still say Fri/Sat Elite league is incompatable with doubling up.

[Crazy robin]

Poole have always had a good crowd and still do today due to the fact Matt does promote, build a good team to any points limit and most of all have a very loyal fan and sponsor base. However crowds are down around 30 % to say 2003 when they had a great team but are still the best in the country.

 

Riders want to come to Poole as they are looked after and most importantly paid !!!! Add a good staduim, fans and sponsors and you can see why.

 

Team sport, F1, Motorcross, Moto GP, WSB, WRC, Nascar, Dakar, the list is endless.

 

Birmingham seemed to annoy all the fans who then didnt turn up and eastbourne had a very boring team and no proper promotion.

 

We seem to be at opposite ends, i see the way forward to be more high risk rather than the same old same old.

 

If it stays as it is with a poor product and yearly increases to attend where will it end ????

 

 

Funny as I went to watch Poole many times in the season they finished bottom & they didn't have good crowds in any of those meetings but surprisingly they all came back when they started winning again:-)

 

I take it Matt didn't promote the sport very well in the losing season or was it the fact that a winning team does all the promoting for you.

poole have got a bigger budget than others

 

success brings in the fans add to that exciting racers like holder/ward and its easy to see why they get decent crowds

 

but.....im sure if they didnt have the exciting riders / and they were losing many home matches then the attendances would start to drop like a stone

and thats fords job --- to keep being a successfull team ---- to keep the fans coming --- simple really

 

i dont think his promoting skills are any better than the majority of other promoters

ive seen promoters do tons more than what he has done ,,, but like i said success breeds success = fans

 

 

Attendances dropped when they were bottom of the league so take that as a given.

Edited November 18, 2014 by Crazy robin

[heathen chemistry]

And why? Because Matt Ford does his job, very well. He also brings in riders with potential, which before i get jumped on, were avaliable to other clubs !!

 

hm .... not really available to other clubs are they when fords in a position to outbid all other clubs ....

 

chequebook speedway .........

[Agrotron]

chequebook speedway lol

 

Just the top riders what to represent a club rich in history and success like the Poole Pirates

[B.V 72]

Not really true nearly all teams who fall tend to run badly that be at El and PL level ...What with this team Brum paid top money for by the way ? Auty ,King,Doyle ,Barker Convati etc .

Not to mention Harris and Smolinski.

 

I think i am right saying you are a Swindon fan.If my memory serves me well in 2013 your team had money problems not being able to pay your riders to cause your riders to sort of work to rule(1 bike etc) this being blamed for the loss against Belle vue.Was it a sponsor that pulled you out of the mire and paid the debts to save the day.So according to you your club is badly run ?.

This debate is about Poole wanting a lot higher points limit and wether the other clubs could afford to pay a team of top class riders of which you need to reach a higher limit.So looking at your 2013 season do you think that Swindon could pay this kind of money out and keep running.Or would you say they my end up joining the so called badly run teams in having to drop a league or 2 to keep running.

[SCB]

Not to mention Harris and Smolinski.

 

I think i am right saying you are a Swindon fan.If my memory serves me well in 2013 your team had money problems not being able to pay your riders to cause your riders to sort of work to rule(1 bike etc) this being blamed for the loss against Belle vue.Was it a sponsor that pulled you out of the mire and paid the debts to save the day.So according to you your club is badly run ?.

This debate is about Poole wanting a lot higher points limit and wether the other clubs could afford to pay a team of top class riders of which you need to reach a higher limit.So looking at your 2013 season do you think that Swindon could pay this kind of money out and keep running.Or would you say they my end up joining the so called badly run teams in having to drop a league or 2 to keep running.

Clearly not aware that Swindons issue was not of their doing.They could not pay the riders because the home teams had not sent Swindon the money for their away meetings. I'll let you guess who one of them teams were.

 

 

It's not about being able to afford a higher points limit, it's about being able to find the riders. If we make the points limit 100 will it make the EL brilliant? Will teams be able to build to 100? No, because there are not 20 point riders out there. The points limit need to be a reasonable figure that all clubs can realistically build to. Do you not remember what happened to BV in 2007 when the limit was too high?

Edited November 19, 2014 by SCB

[B.V 72]

How wrong. Poole promote the product and sport well. The results show and and all the other promotors want to know the secret and even ask at the agm as if its something speacial.

 

The answer is hard work and being able to sell the product to fans and sponsors. Fed up with all the excuses from other clubs and people because they are useless at their job and then moan about it !!!!

You are missing my point i am not calling Pooles promotors i think they are doing a brilliant job

What i am calling is their and your mind set re having a higher points limit.In my mind and i would think in the mind of the other promotors(or the higher points limit would have all ready happened)its a no go.

My point is if you raise the points limit you will need a good few better quality riders to come and ride over here and how the hell are you going to do that.If you have not noticed the better class riders no longer want to ride over here.It looks like Woffinden and Kildemand wont be back next year we have already lost long term Elite riders like Holder.Kasprzak Ericsen etc With the points limit as it is now a few teams are going to find it hard to find a true no 1.You call the other promoters useless at their jobs in part i call them realists.

On the other hand if by some kind of miracle you could tempt at least another 20 or so top class riders back over here of which you will need to up the limit.Do you think that all the other promoters would think.Yeah i can promote my club better than i do now Yeah lets go for this i will put it all on the line,i will gamble that all these highly paid riders i have now got on my wage bill will bring loads more supporters through the gates and get me loads more sponsors.Because if they dont all i will loose is a shed load of money and my club will close its doors.

Sorry to say as much as i would like a stronger Elite league i cannot see it happening.Sadly i think we all have to accept that British speedway is not the force it once was.Riders can earn much more money in the G Ps,Poland and Sweden and with most of our promoters not owning their own stadiums the choice of running on 1 night a week(like the top boys want) looks very bleak.Let alone the rental problems with the said stadiums just running 7 or so home meetings a year.

Edited November 19, 2014 by B.V 72

[B.V 72]

Clearly not aware that Swindons issue was not of their doing.They could not pay the riders because the home teams had not sent Swindon the money for their away meetings. I'll let you guess who one of them teams were.

 

 

It's not about being able to afford a higher points limit, it's about being able to find the riders. If we make the points limit 100 will it make the EL brilliant? Will teams be able to build to 100? No, because there are not 20 point riders out there. The points limit need to be a reasonable figure that all clubs can realistically build to. Do you not remember what happened to BV in 2007 when the limit was too high?

Thanks you find out something new everyday i thought that the riders own club paid the riders points money for both home and away meetings and if what you say is true useing Swindon as an example was wrong and i apologise.

I would think that for a good few clubs that a higher points limit being able to afford it would be a big issue.

If you read back at my posts on this thread you will find that i am very much against a higher points limit, 2007 being a major point in me thinking this way.

Edited November 19, 2014 by B.V 72

[SteveLyric2]

Just to be fair there were at least 2 EL promoters - Matt Ford and David Helmsley (possibly others?) - that wanted a higher points limit. Not massively higher, just 1 or 2 points more ie 35-36.

 

This other thing about Poole not needing to promote - where do you think Poole's money comes from? Certainly not out of Matt's back pocket. It comes from a lot of hard work with sponsors and advertisers, large and small, individuals and corporates.

 

 

Now I know that Poole is the commercial centre of the world and there are massive sponsorship opportunities for the very few leisure activities available which are just waiting for someone to pick up the phone!!!! But the difference is Matt gets out there and does it because its his main business.

Edited November 19, 2014 by Skidder1

[Sherborne Green]

hm .... not really available to other clubs are they when fords in a position to outbid all other clubs ....

 

chequebook speedway .........

Do you really think that all clubs should have the same budget?

 

This does not apply in any other sport so why speedway?

 

Clubs income comes from mainly crowd income and local sponsership.

 

How therefore can all clubs have the same income?

 

Going back to my previous post. Business, income, budgets that is how clubs survive in all sports.

[SCB]

Thanks you find out something new everyday i thought that the riders own club paid the riders points money for both home and away meetings and if what you say is true useing Swindon as an example was wrong and i apologise.

I would think that for a good few clubs that a higher points limit being able to afford it would be a big issue.

If you read back at my posts on this thread you will find that i am very much against a higher points limit, 2007 being a major point in me thinking this way.

Theres a standard points payment that the staging club pays, its to stop what happened to Swindon from happening. I guess Bv would have struggled last year paying all away meetings from about 4 home meetings income too. some clubs are known for being slow to pay this.

 

So you did, I jumped in a bit quick. It just I keep reading how a higher points limit is some sort of great idea, nobody seems to think of the negatives. They just think put the points limit up and you'll find Holder, Jonsson, Sayfitdinov, Vaculik, Lindgren, Pedersen and Hancock will come flooding back - yeah, right.

[Aces51]

Clearly not aware that Swindons issue was not of their doing.They could not pay the riders because the home teams had not sent Swindon the money for their away meetings. I'll let you guess who one of them teams were

My recollection is that the riders had not been paid for two months and were owed in the region of £50,000. The main reason put forward at the time by the Swindon management for their problems was the late payment of Sky money, some £20,000. I have no idea if it is true but a number of Swindon fans posted on here that this was not a recent problem but that there had been problems relating to payments to riders dating back to Leigh Adams.

 

The question of the late payment of the basic pay rate to away riders by the home club has arisen on other occasions at other clubs but sometimes it was a t*t for tat situation because the home club were still owed money for their visit to that club.

 

Whatever the ins and outs the reality is that speedway will only survive in the long term if clubs live within their means. Crowd levels were dropping long before the top riders decided the grass was greener elsewhere and new fans will not be attracted in large numbers by the return of those riders, because they have never heard of them.

 

The way forward is to get the sport onto a firm financial footing, get the product right, improve facilities for fans as much as is possible and then get the message out to as many potential fans as they can by promoting it far and wide through conventional and social media outlets.

Edited November 19, 2014 by Aces51