More Tinkering At The Agm

[capone]

One of the things the referee has to do is make sure a rider has the correct helmet cover. It's all very well to mock these changes for the sake of moaning but the yellow and white helmet covers are not always easy to see under the lights then there is a case for better indentiification. It's also important when two riders cross the line together.

ok so why change it in the first place ....just to make a problem ??

[Trees]

ok so why change it in the first place ....just to make a problem ??

Decision by previous promoters, can't remember the reasoning behind it ..... can anyone?

[TMW]

Decision by previous promoters, can't remember the reasoning behind it ..... can anyone?

I believe they changed the white to green to match the buttons on a Sky remote control for betting purposes but betting didn't really take off so they changed the green back to white.

[MFE]

My problem with Speedway 2015 style, is that we now have 28 what are effectively challenge matches before just 2 teams and Sky finally enjoy the fruits of a healthy crowd. If you miss a match or your team fields a weak line-up, well never mind, we still have a few meetings to get into the top 4.If the weather looks a bit dodgy, well wont bother this week maybe I will go when the sun is shining or we have our full team out!!

 

There is basically not a lot wrong in my opinion with the constitution of Speedway for the BSPA to remedy, where the problem is riders picking and choosing which matches to attend to

fit in with their GP arrangements (notable exception of Bomber Harris who was exemplary in his commitment to Coventry in 2014) A two strikes and you are out rule should be enforced, fans

expect to see riders taking their team involvement seriously, and not just treating as a cash-cow for their GP career.

 

What I would also like to see, is a concerted effort by the BSPA to locate some really good quality shale, track preparation at most tracks visited last season (Wolverhampton excepted) was unsatisfactory, and we should not expect riders to ride through ploughed fields or ones as slick as hell, devoid of any shale, nor should fans be expected to part with £17 for the privilege.

[B.V 72]

Fans watch all sorts of motorsport and football when one team dominates so not a valid point. Why have these teams gone ? Poor promotors and poor teams, no other reason really.

If Poole had a great team or any other team did fans would come to watch the best. People are fed up with paying top dollar to watch rubbish and you may be surprised how many people come.

As has been proved weakening all the time and prices going up does not WORK !!!!

So what your saying is you cant work out who is who with only four riders

Have Poole not weakened with the lower points limits over the years. Yet you say Poole still get good crowds so weaker teams do still work in Poole.The only difference is that Poole can pay the most money to have the pick of the riders that fit the new points limit.While im posting can you tell me what other motorsport is a team sport ?.Plus the poor teams with poor promoters that have gone must be Birmingham who finished top of the league in 2013 with a team that broke the bank and the fans did not turn out in there numbers which forced them to field a weaker team this year which led to them going bust and Eastbourne who are the only elite team that did not lose a home match this year yet the fans still stayed away.

[pandorum]

How many in the Swedish and Polish ELs?

 

Would prefer to see 7 strong teams twice than have a league of 16 and see 15 weaker teams once.

I used to watch a league with 20 odd teams in it that had no superstars whatsoever in it.

We made our own. There was always teams who were weaker than others so we saw walkovers and were walkedover as tracks were different and bikes not tuned by expensive ex riders.

But the sport was exciting to watch without interminable delays whilst someone fiddled with a bike or farted around digging a ditch

at the start.

Stadiums were generally well attended and sometimes packed from start to 4th bend.

They were hardly ultra modern but provided what we craved. A bloody good night out.

Of course the sport failed to compete with all the other distractions people had in the 80s 90s etc but the basic idea was good.

4 blokes of comparable skills with bikes that were affordable and reasonably reliable riding around in an oval on a track prepared toallow them to show their skills and even have a go at someone who was much higher up in a team.

 

So to answer your question. What is a weak team?

We always had heat leaders and reserves but then a reserve could beat a heat leader on his own track.

A reserve could go through the card and beat all the opposition back then.

Seen it myself many times.

But for a FTR to do that even if given a chance would be a stone cold miracle.

We had the NNL and the BL and even in the BL weak teams sometimes wiped out strong teams.

 

The sport has changed a lot in 40 years but ALL for the worse.

It's not just the chasm between the riders, which most of the FTR riders will never bridge, it's the track, the rules, the way the

ref allows the meeting to drag on forever, the lack of any real value for money or even excitement as even at the much vaunted play (albeit from a computer screen)offs I have heard more noise in my local library.

Crowds used to bring down the roof watching this exciting sport.

Nowadays they prefer to read the programme during the race.

 

Everything that ever got me to every speedway stadium in the country several times a year has gone from the sport.

Except for the blokes riding around the oval which I can see at home.

 

It's so sad to see something I loved fall so far but those in charge were oblivious to the problems.

They obviously feel that what they have is VFM and moving forward to a bright new future.

If so the sport has finally been handed over to the lunatics.

[DC2]

There's no point harping on about the past or having some utopia vision for speedway that can never pay for itself; you just have to get on with it.

 

If the promoters cannot persuade each other & their landlords to agree certain race nights for EL & others for PL we're always going to have problems attracting the big stars & having to face up to doubling up, r/r & guests.

 

Getting the race nights right will be the first step to recovery.

[Star Lady]

So what your saying is you cant work out who is who with only four riders

No sometimes there are only three!

[pandorum]

There's no point harping on about the past or having some utopia vision for speedway that can never pay for itself; you just have to get on with it.

 

If the promoters cannot persuade each other & their landlords to agree certain race nights for EL & others for PL we're always going to have problems attracting the big stars & having to face up to doubling up, r/r & guests.

 

Getting the race nights right will be the first step to recovery.

That is possibly the stupidest thing anyone has said here and we have Morrissey Fan.

 

If we don't learn from the past etc etc.

 

And I did not advocate a Utopia as that is even dafter than arguing we should never look to the past.

 

 

You are arguing that speedway can never better itself but if that is the case it might as well give up.

It can't improve it's product?

It can't give better VFM?

It can't increase it's popularity.

It just has to 'get on with it'.

 

You even contradict yourself at the end.

Where the hell will they get the race nights right without looking to the past.

 

Speedway must constantly look to the past to move into the future.

Ignore the past and you never learn what works and what doesn't.

It's NOT about BIG STARS.

It's about making the sport entertaining for a new generation.

And the best place to start something like that is look to the Past

and then pick the best bits and improve them.

 

And that isn't happening. All that is happening is like the thread says.

Meaningless Tinkering.

 

The Past had 2nd halves.

And they were a bloody good idea.

 

Only idiots ignore the past.

Edited November 17, 2014 by pandorum

[silverfox]

afraid nothing from the agm that will tempt me back to speedway for another season.

[DC2]

 

You even contradict yourself at the end. Where the hell will they get the race nights right without looking to the past.

 

 

Errr ... from looking at the present! EL solely on Mon, Weds & Thurs would make it easier for continental riders & ensure no clashes for D/U riders riding in the PL on Fri, Sat, Sun. Fewer fixture clashes would give better rider availability, more foreign stars & fewer r/r & guests.

 

 

 

 

 

[MFE]

afraid nothing from the agm that will tempt me back to speedway for another season.

 

What would you have liked to see happen Silverfox?

[E I Addio]

ok so why change it in the first place ....just to make a problem ??

 

I am not sure that it was ever brought in as a rule, I think riders just sort of drifted that way.

 

The origins of the yellow and black helmet are pretty well lost in speedway folklore. Some say that in the early days it was copied from greyhounds who lined up in red , blue white and yellow and black, others say that in the early days of televised speedway soon after WW2 yellow was almost indistinguishable from white in the poor quality black and white TV broadcasts of the time . My dad told me it was because plain yellow was in the past, more strongly associated with cowardice than it is now, so take your choice which if any version you believe. It was yellow and black for many years though.

 

Someone will correct me if I am wrong but I cant remember there ever being a specific rule changing it from yellow and black to plain yellow. Certainly some riders. notably Jason Crump were wearing yellow and black until quite recently. For as long as I can remember many programmes would indicate just "Y" for the visiting second string but it was always taken to mean yellow and black, and gradually (can't remember when it started) some plain yellow helmets appeared , probably about the time riders started painting their own helmets.. I have pictures of Crumpy wearing Yellow and Black when others were wearing plain yellow. Also even now you see some riders in the GP's with helmets painted yellow with a few token black streaks around the edge which I assumed was to make them technically compliant with the rules. although that could be simply F.I.M rules.

 

Anyway the answer to your question, after my divergence into the past is that I don't think the rule was ever formally changed to yellow, its just that the term "yellow" somehow became synonymous with yellow and black and somehow it just gradually changed. Others will correct me if I am wrong and there was a specific rule change, but I can't remember one. ,There was definitely a period when riders wore yellow as well as yellow and black though.

[T.N.T.]

Regardless of what has or hasnt changed in the rules over the years the one thing that the sport lacks is bringing in new fans and making it a more respected sport to a wider audience.

 

I am not saying it will ever get as big as football or even rugby or darts but those three sports along with Cricket and possibly more have marketed their sports and made them move into the 21st Century.

 

In my opinion speedway needs to do this as the product in its self is exciting and has the right ingredients to be more successful but it still has the problem of being just 15 minutes of action over 120 minutes.

 

Junior races, go karts, live bands ... Something is needed to make it a full evening of entertainment and marketing needs to be increased like posters when a Circus is in town, you see these everywhere but do you ever see them for speedway ?

 

I do believe however that the Elite League needs to be just that. The best of the best and this should be a more sort after product of less meetings but stronger teams making each one a meeting you don't want to miss.

 

One fixed race night would be great but why not simply make it one meeting each week for each team. This would mean just 14 meetings and only seven at home but the Elite League needs to be what it says on the tin.

 

So domestically the sport of speedway needs to be more basic as it is now and if the few Elite League meetings can generate new interest then the lower levels should benefit in the long run.

 

 

Run the sport as it is now for all tracks in a British League with cup competitions, individuals, team events but throw everything at the Elite League to make it a special event each week containing as many top riders as possible by making a squad of star riders allocated to each track.

 

I'm sure virtually all the current GP riders plus others like Zmarzlik, Gollob, Laguta etc could be tempted to sign up and feature in a few meetings when possible. After all its only seven home meetings where the big wages are needed before the play offs.

[Shale Searcher]

I used to watch a league with 20 odd teams in it that had no superstars whatsoever in it.

We made our own. There was always teams who were weaker than others so we saw walkovers and were walkedover as tracks were different and bikes not tuned by expensive ex riders.

But the sport was exciting to watch without interminable delays whilst someone fiddled with a bike or farted around digging a ditch

at the start.

Stadiums were generally well attended and sometimes packed from start to 4th bend.

They were hardly ultra modern but provided what we craved. A bloody good night out.

Of course the sport failed to compete with all the other distractions people had in the 80s 90s etc but the basic idea was good.

4 blokes of comparable skills with bikes that were affordable and reasonably reliable riding around in an oval on a track prepared toallow them to show their skills and even have a go at someone who was much higher up in a team.

 

So to answer your question. What is a weak team?

We always had heat leaders and reserves but then a reserve could beat a heat leader on his own track.

A reserve could go through the card and beat all the opposition back then.

Seen it myself many times.

But for a FTR to do that even if given a chance would be a stone cold miracle.

We had the NNL and the BL and even in the BL weak teams sometimes wiped out strong teams.

 

The sport has changed a lot in 40 years but ALL for the worse.

It's not just the chasm between the riders, which most of the FTR riders will never bridge, it's the track, the rules, the way the

ref allows the meeting to drag on forever, the lack of any real value for money or even excitement as even at the much vaunted play (albeit from a computer screen)offs I have heard more noise in my local library.

Crowds used to bring down the roof watching this exciting sport.

Nowadays they prefer to read the programme during the race.

 

Everything that ever got me to every speedway stadium in the country several times a year has gone from the sport.

Except for the blokes riding around the oval which I can see at home.

 

It's so sad to see something I loved fall so far but those in charge were oblivious to the problems.

They obviously feel that what they have is VFM and moving forward to a bright new future.

If so the sport has finally been handed over to the lunatics.

Agree with some of what you say, but, and it's a huge but..... In the 60's, 70's and e80's, reserves were reserves, and I certainly do not remember reserves scoring 10, 12 or 15 point hauls week in week out! That was a development of the 90's and much scorned by true Speedway Supporters, those bloody ringer reserves, that should never ever have been at reserve, shoe horned in on false averages and manipulated....... One of the firsts signs of canker that infected Speedway and made it the sick, bed-ridden sport it is today...

Rant over....

[pandorum]

Run the sport as it is now for all tracks in a British League with cup competitions, individuals, team events but throw everything at the Elite League to make it a special event each week containing as many top riders as possible by making a squad of star riders allocated to each track.

 

I'm sure virtually all the current GP riders plus others like Zmarzlik, Gollob, Laguta etc could be tempted to sign up and feature in a few meetings when possible. After all its only seven home meetings where the big wages are needed before the play offs.

The sport would be bankrupt in less than a week.

Where would the crowds come from to pay for that?

The sport is tiny over here.

 

I am sure there would be a buzz around Manchester once they knew Greg Laguta was coming.

Or perhaps not?

 

The sport was hardly heaving to the gills when Emil came over and he was one of the best in the world.

 

The sport needs a complete overhaul and start again slowly from the bottom up.

It needs baby steps not complete insanity.

In the 60's, 70's and e80's, reserves were reserves, and I certainly do not remember reserves scoring 10, 12 or 15 point hauls week in week out!

I said I had seen it many times not that it happened week in week out.

I saw a lot of speedway back then

 

That was a development of the 90's and much scorned by true Speedway Supporters, those bloody ringer reserves, that should never ever have been at reserve, shoe horned in on false averages and manipulated....... One of the firsts signs of canker that infected Speedway and made it the sick, bed-ridden sport it is today...

Rant over....

I was becoming lost to the sport by then so never saw that myself but agree totally.

I loved watching a kid start off in 2nd halves and become big.

One of those was a kid called Peter Collins who did quite well I do believe.

Edited November 17, 2014 by pandorum

[arnieg]

 

I am not sure that it was ever brought in as a rule,

2005 rulebook shows it as a change, after the change from white to green had already taken place.

[E I Addio]

2005 rulebook shows it as a change, after the change from white to green had already taken place.

Thanks. So if I have got this right then the sequence is first we have yellow and black covers to avoid confusion between yellow helmets and white, then white becomes green at the request of Sky so yellow and black becomes plain yellow as there is no confusion between green and yellow. Then ha few years later we get rid of green and go back to white to please the traditionalists which in turn leads to some fans confusing white with yellow under the lights. Is that it? If so at least we see why the change back to y&b.

 

That presumably explains why I have seen riders on the continent in Y&B as they presumably never had the change to green? At least we seem to have got therein the end.

[T.N.T.]

Next year the main topic will be what colour will be used fr the tactical ride as people are getting confused with the white/black and the yellow/black

 

A Green

B Purple

C Black

D White with Purple stripes and a Green star

[Fenway Bleachers]

I am sure the BHB could donate some jockey helmet colors. maybe the Sangster white with green dots or Queenie's purple with golden tassles.....NICE!!!