orion Posted November 19, 2014 Report Share Posted November 19, 2014 Whatever the ins and outs the reality is that speedway will only survive in the long term if clubs live within their means. Crowd levels were dropping long before the top riders decided the grass was greener elsewhere and new fans will not be attracted in large numbers by the return of those riders, because they have never heard of them. Old fans tend to be the ones who bring the new fans with them . Fans have slowly left as the product has got weaker it's gone hand in hand . I said it before no sport has gone forward by making the product weaker but in speedway people think that is the way to go thou it's never worked 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted November 19, 2014 Report Share Posted November 19, 2014 Old fans tend to be the ones who bring the new fans with them . Fans have slowly left as the product has got weaker it's gone hand in hand . I said it before no sport has gone forward by making the product weaker but in speedway people think that is the way to go thou it's never worked But what came first, the Chicken or the egg? In other words did fans leave because the product got weaker or did the product get weaker because people were leaving anyway and income was reduced ? I don't know the answer but look at the sports history. In 1950 there were huge crowds and at least three leagues. Within 10 years it was down to about 9 clubs. We still had the best riders in the world but people found other attractions, like television which was becoming mass produced just as people have computers and home cinemas as new novelties today .The sport was then revived by Mike Parkers apparently cheap and cheerful Provincial League with riders who were basically pert timers, some of them apprently on clapped out bikes we are told, and tracks were re-opened in quite large numbers.that was the start of a relatively successful era. Don't get me wrong , I am not saying we can do without some top riders, but I do think there is a lot more to it than getting top riders back in large numbers. There are things that can be done to improve the presentation, without necessarily importing more top stars. More smoothly run meetings, less tractor racing and consistent application of the rules would be a good start that would make a lot of fans happier, even with the existing riders, but it would cost little or nothing to put into practice. I think Aces 51 is right in the sense that the sport has to live within its financial means.we cannot possibly afford to,lose a single EL club now. IMO it is aquestion of hanging on to what we have, consolidating and looking to build up in the longer term but going beyond reasonable financial limits would be disastrous. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aces51 Posted November 19, 2014 Report Share Posted November 19, 2014 (edited) Old fans tend to be the ones who bring the new fans with them . Fans have slowly left as the product has got weaker it's gone hand in hand . I said it before no sport has gone forward by making the product weaker but in speedway people think that is the way to go thou it's never worked The absence of the top riders doesn't necessarily make the product weaker and certainly not to newcomers. Conversely, some changes that will make a better and stronger product are; better track preparation and more races involving riders of comparable ability, which is more likely to produce better racing, more modern and dynamic meeting presentation with no unnecessary delays, simpler rules and consistent and transparent decision making by the BSPA and referees, better facilities that meet the expectations of newcomers, teams with local riders who develop and improve over time and teams which retain the a majority of same riders year on year to encourage fans to identify with them. What has to be achieved is that at the end of a meeting paying spectators feel that they have had a thoroughly enjoyable, value for money, time and can't wait to repeat the experience. The return of the top riders could be a contributory factor in achieving that experience but it is presently unaffordable, even if they wanted to return. It is a fallacy to think the product has to be weaker without them. The factors I have mentioned are affordable and achievable and will make the product much stronger than it has been for many years. Edited November 19, 2014 by Aces51 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 Just to be fair there were at least 2 EL promoters - Matt Ford and David Helmsley (possibly others?) - that wanted a higher points limit. Not massively higher, just 1 or 2 points more ie 35-36. This other thing about Poole not needing to promote - where do you think Poole's money comes from? Certainly not out of Matt's back pocket. It comes from a lot of hard work with sponsors and advertisers, large and small, individuals and corporates. Now I know that Poole is the commercial centre of the world and there are massive sponsorship opportunities for the very few leisure activities available which are just waiting for someone to pick up the phone!!!! But the difference is Matt gets out there and does it because its his main business. But they are sh** at looking after away fans!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryn Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 But they are sh** at looking after away fans!!!! Please explain in what way Mother T. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agrotron Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 One thing that concerns me is no discussion of track covers have people missed this with the trouble we had last season?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theknow 2 Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 But they are sh** at looking after away fans!!!! Oh Dear !!!! No Poole are in the envious position of not having to compete with any other major sports in the area.Take the west midlands,speedway has to compete with Aston Villa, Birmingham City, West Bromwich Albion Wolverhampton plus other smaller clubs and that's only in spring and autumn during the summer its Warwickshire and Worcestershire county cricket. You don't really have to promote,the punters come because there is no other top class sport around. Are you having a Jolly . Not noticed Bmth are top of the championship and sell out every game as last year. Southampton is just up the rd too. Also your area is 50x larger than ours. Never heard so much Bull rubbishe and all because your promoters cant promoter or the area does not want Speedway You are missing my point i am not calling Pooles promotors i think they are doing a brilliant job What i am calling is their and your mind set re having a higher points limit.In my mind and i would think in the mind of the other promotors(or the higher points limit would have all ready happened)its a no go. My point is if you raise the points limit you will need a good few better quality riders to come and ride over here and how the hell are you going to do that.If you have not noticed the better class riders no longer want to ride over here.It looks like Woffinden and Kildemand wont be back next year we have already lost long term Elite riders like Holder.Kasprzak Ericsen etc With the points limit as it is now a few teams are going to find it hard to find a true no 1.You call the other promoters useless at their jobs in part i call them realists. On the other hand if by some kind of miracle you could tempt at least another 20 or so top class riders back over here of which you will need to up the limit.Do you think that all the other promoters would think.Yeah i can promote my club better than i do now Yeah lets go for this i will put it all on the line,i will gamble that all these highly paid riders i have now got on my wage bill will bring loads more supporters through the gates and get me loads more sponsors.Because if they dont all i will loose is a shed load of money and my club will close its doors. Sorry to say as much as i would like a stronger Elite league i cannot see it happening.Sadly i think we all have to accept that British speedway is not the force it once was.Riders can earn much more money in the G Ps,Poland and Sweden and with most of our promoters not owning their own stadiums the choice of running on 1 night a week(like the top boys want) looks very bleak.Let alone the rental problems with the said stadiums just running 7 or so home meetings a year. yes agree with a lot you say but the sport has got itself into this position and needs to get itself out. Decent promoters are what is needed. hm .... not really available to other clubs are they when fords in a position to outbid all other clubs .... chequebook speedway ......... Did you not see the Poole main team sponsor went bust, This has caused a massive hole in funds but do you see Matt moaning or looking to build a team to a low budget in 2015 ? No he is already doing new deals with existing and new sponsors for next year to build a top team once again. This is the differance between Poole and other teams, Poole is run as a business 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.V 72 Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 Promote all you like but it is a fact that most of the top riders plus a lot of other riders no longer want to ride in the U K to many meetings to many different race nights etc,and if the best promoters in the league can't keep Holder over here what chance do the rest have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theknow 2 Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 Promote all you like but it is a fact that most of the top riders plus a lot of other riders no longer want to ride in the U K to many meetings to many different race nights etc,and if the best promoters in the league can't keep Holder over here what chance do the rest have. Holder wants to return to Poole 2015. So does Ward and Magic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve0 Posted November 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 Holder wants to return to Poole 2015. So does Ward and Magic. Well - someone will be disappointed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherborne Green Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 Well - someone will be disappointed.why. They could use all three and still have 9.05 points for the other two riders! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz01 Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 why. They could use all three and still have 9.05 points for the other two riders! Only 2 riders over 7. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainAudi Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 Only 2 riders over 7. I'm still yet it see this rule written down in black & white. Maybe it has been somewhere but I've missed it, if it has been then feel free to link me to it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz01 Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 I'm still yet it see this rule written down in black & white. Maybe it has been somewhere but I've missed it, if it has been then feel free to link me to it! Its in today's Speedway Star apparently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherborne Green Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 There you go. My Speedway Star has not arrived yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 Holder wants to return to Poole 2015. So does Ward and Magic. He also says in the Speedway Star that he will ride elsewhere if he has too. If i was him id call MF`s hand because it is clear he wants Ward as first choice. If i was MF id plan without Ward anyway. I'm still yet it see this rule written down in black & white. Maybe it has been somewhere but I've missed it, if it has been then feel free to link me to it! Its included in the rules in this weeks Speedway Star. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainAudi Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 Its included in the rules in this weeks Speedway Star. Fair enough then, weird rule to implement. Does that mean at the start of the season, or at any point in the season? (ie, if two riders are on 8.40 and 7.60, any rider who joins them over 7 would have to be dropped) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 Fair enough then, weird rule to implement. Does that mean at the start of the season, or at any point in the season? (ie, if two riders are on 8.40 and 7.60, any rider who joins them over 7 would have to be dropped) Personally i don't see it being a weird rule. Its probably done to stop `rich` clubs building top heavy just because they can. Think the rule is clear, you wouldn't be able to sign `another` rider over 7 if you already have 2 in the season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainAudi Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 Personally i don't see it being a weird rule. Its probably done to stop `rich` clubs building top heavy just because they can. Think the rule is clear, you wouldn't be able to sign `another` rider over 7 if you already have 2 in the season. Suppose you have a point there, as pointed out above stops Poole having the turbo twins and janowski, with two 4.50 riders as second strings. what I meant by my question was this, and il use Kings Lynns 2014 team as an example. (Il use made up averages) NKI and Bjerre are 9.20 and 8.40 respectively. In July, Rory Schlein improves his average from 6.30 to 7.15, would he have to then be dropped for a sub 7.00 rider? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 Suppose you have a point there, as pointed out above stops Poole having the turbo twins and janowski, with two 4.50 riders as second strings. what I meant by my question was this, and il use Kings Lynns 2014 team as an example. (Il use made up averages) NKI and Bjerre are 9.20 and 8.40 respectively. In July, Rory Schlein improves his average from 6.30 to 7.15, would he have to then be dropped for a sub 7.00 rider? Ah see what you mean. Wouldn't think it can be enforced to break up a side that has riders improving averages. It hasnt been done in the past. Think its just a starting line up and continued for new 7 pointers to the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.