Mike.Butler Posted November 16, 2014 Report Share Posted November 16, 2014 (edited) I am prepared to be corrected, but given I have read that Cradley actually lost money last season doesnt that tell you that they were splashing the cash to attract any rider they approached (whether that be riders on a steal of an average or those with the most potential to up their CMA).. That can't be right in a development league and in the interests of the league as a whole...Not much fun for anyone knowing a team will win the league before we even start because their income enables them to do this is it? And I don't buy the fact that the others in the top 4 were close to the Heathens..There was a gulf tbh Edited November 16, 2014 by Mike.Butler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greyhoundp Posted November 16, 2014 Report Share Posted November 16, 2014 I dont dispute that there was a gulf between them and the other Teams and i think a lot of fans voted with there feet, i know of a number of fans who picked and chose there meetings last season, 60+ is definately NOT attractive week in, week out. Income i would think Kents income must be on a par with Cradleys if not more so as they dont have rent to pay, Kents problem lies in there management being unable to formulate a winning Team even with there financial strength. Hopefully this year other Teams will be stronger, Cradleys not so strong doesnt that sound stupid, build to be NOT so strong .but this is British Speedway. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribbler Posted November 16, 2014 Report Share Posted November 16, 2014 Cradley - The Poole of the NL ... in so many ways... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMW Posted November 16, 2014 Report Share Posted November 16, 2014 Cradley - The Poole of the NL ... in so many ways... What's wrong with wanting to win? Well run clubs with good support. Speedway is dying in this country lets have more Poole's and Cradleys. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 What's wrong with wanting to win? Well run clubs with good support. Speedway is dying in this country lets have more Poole's and Cradleys. But are Cradley really winning? If you have the ambition to win, have the ambition to do it in the PL or the EL. Winning the NL at all costs is a bit pointless. It made me laugh that the club have had race jackets with 1981, 1983, 2013 and 2014 on.Are they really, honestly, trying to claim that 2013 and 2014 in any way compared with 81 and 83? You just can't imagine BV including any league wins by the Colts in their list of all time wins. A NL win is lovely for the lads involved, it's quite nice at the time but it's hardly going to be a, "remember the good old days when we won the league in ....." story is it? Not for a club like Cradley. At least Matt tries to be the best of the best. But being the best of a kiddie league, well, yeah, great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montie Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 Cradley - The Poole of the NL ... in so many ways... Don't honestly think you can compare the two really...totally different ball game Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMW Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 But are Cradley really winning? If you have the ambition to win, have the ambition to do it in the PL or the EL. Winning the NL at all costs is a bit pointless. It made me laugh that the club have had race jackets with 1981, 1983, 2013 and 2014 on.Are they really, honestly, trying to claim that 2013 and 2014 in any way compared with 81 and 83? You just can't imagine BV including any league wins by the Colts in their list of all time wins. A NL win is lovely for the lads involved, it's quite nice at the time but it's hardly going to be a, "remember the good old days when we won the league in ....." story is it? Not for a club like Cradley. At least Matt tries to be the best of the best. But being the best of a kiddie league, well, yeah, great. I don't know about Cradley in those days in 1981/83 I'd never heard of speedway. What I do know is doesn't matter what league you are in. Surely winning is part and parcel of 'competition'. Maybe that's why the overseas youngsters have a more 'winning' attitude than ours as some promoters have said in the past. here you don't need to win in the MDL and NL just turn up. Is it only in this country where competition and winning is frowned upon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berniev123 Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 But are Cradley really winning? If you have the ambition to win, have the ambition to do it in the PL or the EL. Winning the NL at all costs is a bit pointless. It made me laugh that the club have had race jackets with 1981, 1983, 2013 and 2014 on.Are they really, honestly, trying to claim that 2013 and 2014 in any way compared with 81 and 83? You just can't imagine BV including any league wins by the Colts in their list of all time wins. A NL win is lovely for the lads involved, it's quite nice at the time but it's hardly going to be a, "remember the good old days when we won the league in ....." story is it? Not for a club like Cradley. At least Matt tries to be the best of the best. But being the best of a kiddie league, well, yeah, great. I must say that the '81, '83, '13 & '14 Champions bib that Nigel had made was at my request to put it on my wall with all my other Cradley stuff, I knew that about 5 were being made and Nigel was having #2 for his office. When it was commissioned we were in danger of closing and Perry Bar was just a dream at least two weeks away as the doors had been closed on Monmore by Ladbrokes when we won the KO Cup, by the way we are now in double figures for that in at least 3 Leagues since 1947. I have been a Cradley fan since the Summer of '59 when we had a Cavalcade of Speed meeting and the rest they say is history. The Heathens have 4, yes, 4 League titles in the history books since 1947 and in my world, who cares what division it is in? By the way, Belle Vue ACES are a different team to Belle Vue Colts in all history books on Speedway! I would call them BV 1 & BV 2................ Discuss!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hector Austin Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 Nigel Pearson has said the Heathens didnt cover expences in 2014,I think this is not only about the NL but British Speedway in general, its a worrying time for some promoters, and supporters. Obvioulsy payin to much man I'm not the one missing the point. If a team used R/R against the Stags and gave their heat leaders an extra ride each, rather than a No 8, then who was it pushing up the wage bill? Or how a team coming at Scunthorpe with a guest in his 40s? Plus Scunny's scores weren't that different from everyone else e.g. Scunny scored a point more than Stoke at Mildenhall, and several other teams only scored just a few more points than the Stags at Cradley. All the best Rob Talking rot i am afraid sam man, belive you are a little too close to see through the smoke and mirrors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackbird Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 At least Matt tries to be the best of the best. But being the best of a kiddie league, well, yeah, great.You should be ashamed of yourself making such a truly pathetic comment. Do you actually understand anything about the sport? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greyhoundp Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 (edited) SCB, does have a point, you cannot in all honesty compare the wins in the 80,s with the present, yes its great to win for riders and supporters, and even if i play tiddlywinks i want to win but to compare Im afraid not, The same goes for The Golden Hammer My suggestion that it be called The Bronze Hammer thus reflecting the 3rd Tier, Silver Hammer as we progress through the Leagues was NOT taken up. So in some ways Im sorry to be disagreeing with a fellow Heathen, who is 2 years my senior in supporting Cradley, but thats only my opinion, In some ways it could be seen as devaluing the past GREAT Teams that we had. Oh i would disagree with SCB on calling it a Kiddie League that is being totally dis respectful to the riders in it, it does at least have a meaningful name "National Development League" could someone explain to me the difference between Elite League and the League we have masquerading as such at the present time ?. I would like to know does SCB have a name for that also perhaps The Big Boys League might be more apt. Edited November 17, 2014 by greyhoundp 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berniev123 Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 SCB, does have a point, you cannot in all honesty compare the wins in the 80,s with the present, yes its great to win for riders and supporters, and even if i play tiddlywinks i want to win but to compare Im afraid not, The same goes for The Golden Hammer My suggestion that it be called The Bronze Hammer thus reflecting the 3rd Tier, Silver Hammer as we progress through the Leagues was NOT taken up. So in some ways Im sorry to be disagreeing with a fellow Heathen, who is 2 years my senior in supporting Cradley, but thats only my opinion, In some ways it could be seen as devaluing the past GREAT Teams that we had. Oh i would disagree with SCB on calling it a Kiddie League that is being totally dis respectful to the riders in it, it does at least have a meaningful name "National Development League" could someone explain to me the difference between Elite League and the League we have masquerading as such at the present time ?. I would like to know does SCB have a name for that also perhaps The Big Boys League might be more apt. To me, Cradley will always be Cradley and I would still add in another League Title if we won the MDL riding all over on borrowed tracks in 2015............I Sponsored a Club CH Race Jacket, I have Sponsored a Heat in a programme for 4 NL Seasons, I buy a lot of memorabilia and Nigel commissions replica race jackets for me................ Cut me, I bleed Green & White and to this day I still do not like red in our race jacket....BUT......4 League Titles since 1947! Heaven knows how many KO Cups in various Leagues......Nobody on this Earth will convince me otherwise, what we have done in ALL Leagues since 1947 is wrong in any way, which my mother still talks about today and will in 2015! I hope it will continue and I, also, hope we win the KO Cup, Shield & NL in 2015 again. Good luck to the rest as it willbe a keen competition with the EL newcomers! After all, the NL will not be a Development League in 2015.....there are a few, well at least 5 teams, that will want to out Cradley, well Cradley! Discuss!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted November 18, 2014 Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 (edited) You should be ashamed of yourself making such a truly pathetic comment. Do you actually understand anything about the sport? I don't see what it has to do with knowing anything about any sport. Claming it's wrong to want to win but choosing to compete at a lower level doesn't compute. Cradley won the NL in 2014 but they're still only the 23rd best team in the UK, YAY for being the 23rd best team, hardly anything to get excited about is it? Ah, got it, you mean me using the term kiddies league? Well it's the Nation DEVELOPMENT League. We're not trying to develop 40 years old are we? We're trying to develop kids, so they go on to be our future riders. I guess we should just fill the league with foreigners and old guys, it'll be so much better won't it? I have to question if you know anything about the sport with your arsey comment. Edited November 18, 2014 by SCB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hector Austin Posted November 18, 2014 Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 It's difficult for me personally to have sympathy for Scunthorpe's position regarding team strengths. My lad was part of a Newport CL team that was full of youngsters at the start of their career that was roundly criticised by Rob Godfrey for not being competitive and therefore bad for the Conference league. Well said Vince man, typical of him! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*JJ Posted November 18, 2014 Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 I don't see what it has to do with knowing anything about any sport. Claming it's wrong to want to win but choosing to compete at a lower level doesn't compute. Cradley won the NL in 2014 but they're still only the 23rd best team in the UK, YAY for being the 23rd best team, hardly anything to get excited about is it? Ah, got it, you mean me using the term kiddies league? Well it's the Nation DEVELOPMENT League. We're not trying to develop 40 years old are we? We're trying to develop kids, so they go on to be our future riders. But is it really the National Development League any more? Isn't it really just the Third Division these days? There are separate Northern and Midland Development Leagues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevePark Posted November 18, 2014 Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 What the National League is and what it should be are (and always has been, even in the Conference League days), sadly, two different things. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted November 18, 2014 Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 But is it really the National Development League any more? Isn't it really just the Third Division these days? There are separate Northern and Midland Development Leagues. I diagrees, even Cradley and Mildenhall - two of the bigger/better stand alone teams tend to go with youth and bring riders on. How many 30+ riders have raced for either club in the last 5 seasons? How many 25+ riders even? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander15 Posted November 18, 2014 Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 I diagrees, even Cradley and Mildenhall - two of the bigger/better stand alone teams tend to go with youth and bring riders on. How many 30+ riders have raced for either club in the last 5 seasons? How many 25+ riders even? But those riders tend to be the ones that are going to increase their average and therefore win the league for their team. So if they can do it financially of course they're going to sign them. It's nothing specific about wanting to bring on youth and bring the individual riders on,just look at how often Cradley dismantle their team at the end of the season and sign people on attractive averages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therefused Posted November 18, 2014 Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 But those riders tend to be the ones that are going to increase their average and therefore win the league for their team. So if they can do it financially of course they're going to sign them. It's nothing specific about wanting to bring on youth and bring the individual riders on,just look at how often Cradley dismantle their team at the end of the season and sign people on attractive averages. to be fair, cradleys average is usually a lot higher than the limit, so it has to be 'dismantled'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heathen1984 Posted November 19, 2014 Report Share Posted November 19, 2014 Well exactly we have no choice to dismantle our team. We like to bring on youngsters at our club aswell, maybe not as much as some clubs but we do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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