More On The Decline Of British Speedway

[Trees]

To do away with the old tac sub rule was the right thing to do given it resulted in too many lower order riders not having their alloted rides.

I like the fact that, particularly in 2015, it is imperative to get an 8 1 to really do any good out of the tac ride, puts more pressure on and means the riders have to team ride.

[The White Knight]

To do away with the old tac sub rule was the right thing to do given it resulted in too many lower order riders not having their alloted rides.

I like the fact that, particularly in 2015, it is imperative to get an 8 1 to really do any good out of the tac ride, puts more pressure on and means the riders have to team ride.

And if the Team getting the 8-1 WINS the Meeting without the other Team having the chance to use the Tactical Ride because they have generally ridden better - that is FAIR is it?

 

I don't think so. :mad:

Edited November 21, 2014 by The White Knight

[Trees]

And if the Team getting the 8-1 WINS the Meeting without the other Team having the chance to use the Tactical Ride because they have generally ridden better - that is FAIR is it?

 

I don't think so. :mad:

So it was fair to take out the reserve in heat 8 when 6 points down, easily get a 5 1 so you're then just 2 points adrift, whereas with the TR you'll be 10 points down, very lucky indeed to get an 8 1 to end up 3 points adrift ..... so more chance for the losing team with the old tacs to WIN the meeting!!?

[SCB]

And if the Team getting the 8-1 WINS the Meeting without the other Team having the chance to use the Tactical Ride because they have generally ridden better - that is FAIR is it?

 

I don't think so. :mad:

You don't get 8 points from a TR. You get 3 points. With a tac sub you replace two riders who are going to score 1 with 2 riders who score 5, that's 4 more for you and 4 less for you opponents so a swing of 8 points.

[The White Knight]

So it was fair to take out the reserve in heat 8 when 6 points down, easily get a 5 1 so you're then just 2 points adrift, whereas with the TR you'll be 10 points down, very lucky indeed to get an 8 1 to end up 3 points adrift ..... so more chance for the losing team with the old tacs to WIN the meeting!!?

 

 

You don't get 8 points from a TR. You get 3 points. With a tac sub you replace two riders who are going to score 1 with 2 riders who score 5, that's 4 more for you and 4 less for you opponents so a swing of 8 points.

If you read any, or all of my Posts regarding Tactical Substitutes and Tactical Rides you would be aware of the fact that I am against BOTH ways of Fiddling/Contriving Results.

 

I couldn't give a damn about which is the best or worst - I couldn't care less.

 

THEY ARE BOTH UNFAIR AND WRONG!!!!

[scotchopper]

But they do that anyway - it's their job and if they think they can overtake they will do their best to. Riders go through the motions in some heats, in any match in any team, winning or not.

As stated above, the TR does not stop a team reaching 60 - it just adds artificial, unearned points on to the losing team's total.

The TS was a tactical way of trying to stop the opposition from scoring, while boosting your own score at the same time, which makes more sense (to me anyway).

The BSPA has had to change & restrict the TR so many times, they have proved to themselves it's a failure. One TR now serves no purpose - it should have been scrapped, and I wouldn't complain if no tactical changes are allowed.

Not arguing T/S are better or worse, I preferred t/s purely because it meant you got to see better calibre of riders more often. It does cost more and teams still hit 60 against tac sub's. My point that either are ways of making matches closer which is a good thing. it doesn't always work and I agree is artificial and unfair. But life isn't always fair and competitive competition is what we are after.

[scotchopper]

I would guess t/s were more likely to change a result purely because you only had to be 6 points down. Without the stats to back it up I would guess that the most regular tr produced a 6-3, 8-1s are very rare and when you are 10 points behind a 6-3 doesn't make a significant difference

[Vince]

I think this thread proves that the decline of British Speedway is entirely down to the tactical rules, remove them immediately and see the sport soar to unprecedented heights!

[ruffdiamond]

I think this thread proves that the decline of British Speedway is entirely down to the tactical rules, remove them immediately and see the sport soar to unprecedented heights!

 

you don't have to remove them,,, just forget about runninig a league, have loads of cup's and local derby trophies :-)

[The White Knight]

I think this thread proves that the decline of British Speedway is entirely down to the tactical rules, remove them immediately and see the sport soar to unprecedented heights!

Not entirely no.

 

It certainly doesn't help though does it?

[Vince]

To be honest much as I hate the rule I think it has next to no effect on crowd levels.

 

This discussion has done exactly what the BSPA are accused of on here and is all about minor tinkering with the sport that will make no real difference. It's really drastic change that would be needed to turn the sport around if that is even possible. The trouble is, like promoters, we are all too close to the sport to actually know what will attract new blood.

[The White Knight]

To be honest much as I hate the rule I think it has next to no effect on crowd levels.

 

This discussion has done exactly what the BSPA are accused of on here and is all about minor tinkering with the sport that will make no real difference. It's really drastic change that would be needed to turn the sport around if that is even possible. The trouble is, like promoters, we are all too close to the sport to actually know what will attract new blood.

It's cost them me - and I know it has cost others too.

[moxey63]

Looking back at old magazines, picture, matches on DVD, the images prod a magical time that from our sleeping pasts and, let's be honest, they are feelings we will never ever get back.

 

The recent Speedway Star pieces on the olden days, for example, the Ipswich piece, the Larry Ross tribute, they are great stories because it was a great time for the sport, even though at the time it was possibly not as great as it once was before (if you compared it with 30 years before).

 

The Ipswich feature in this week's Star, the photo of proper team unity will be something that is hard to navigate back to.

 

Perhaps we should burn all the old images and things of speedway's past; save the children that are coming up on the terraces today from noticing, it never gets better than those first few years.

Edited November 22, 2014 by moxey63

[ruffdiamond]

maybe speedway needs to move into the 21st century,,, and the fans to move out of the 19th ;-)

[StevePark]

maybe speedway needs to move into the 21st century,,, and the fans to move out of the 19th ;-)

 

That would be a start... But, as you know.. "The old days were better"

[Vince]

By 1929 Speedway used to be better!

[ruffdiamond]

 

That would be a start... But, as you know.. "The old days were better"

 

yeah, but that's only cos I'm getting older, (and grumpier) :-(

[Guest]

Managed to blag a ticket to Twickenham yesterday and sat with a couple of freelance journalists. I mentioned that I follow speedway and they both remembered Peter Collins, Ivan Mauger and watching World of Sport etc

 

I asked why don't they take an interest now and both said that the facilities were tired and run down and not what they expected in this day and age. They followed up by saying that all sport relies on sponsorship and speedway would be unlikely to get the high value sponsors unless things were smartened up.

 

For point of reference let's look at Exeter Rugby. They shared the County Ground with the Falcons until 2005 but since moving to a brand new facility a stones throw from the M5 they have gone from strength to strength. Sadly, the famous Falcons remain grounded.

[bellevueace]

I hate the T/R double points rule, it gives the score line an unrealistic slant if a team pulls out an 8-1 so sky insist we keep it to keep the scores close. Well why is it just speedway that has to have a close scoreline? We see many football matches that are over by half time why not manipulate football so we dont get any 4-0 5-0 or 6-0 games same can be said for both codes of rugby. Why is it just speedway is being manipulated ? I actually went to a meeting at Somerset last season and the rebels won by a landslide but there was some excellent racing, going back to the football comparison some 0-0 games are dire so having a close scoreline doent always reflect the entertainment value.

[The Third Man]

i have never understood why a close score means a good meeting

 

good racing makes a good meeting, the score is irrelevant

 

i have seen loads od meetings at Sheffield when we were top of the league, where we thrashed teams, but the racing was very good and it was entertainment at its best, and i have seen the complete opposit, close scores rubbish racing