More On The Decline Of British Speedway

[Mike.Butler]

i made a point of not attending any match containing this enhancement to the night's entertainment..

[The White Knight]

 

I only know TWK who won't go because of the TR rule, and with respect to him (because I have a lot of time for him) we'll see if that's the case come March.I just can't grasp why it affects someone's enjoyment of speedway to the extent that they will not attend.

 

The rule is there to ensure that meetings are closer and therefore more entertaining. The scoring system has added to that, but in many ways it merely enhances the case for tactical changes. If it was just about 2 points only, then the chances of using it are less if a team is 10 or 12 points behind going into heat 12 as the meeting has completely gone.

 

I am genuinely surprised that it is stated here that 'a tactical rule has indeed been around in speedway for a while with the express purpose of allowing close scores.

One rule allows a team to take advantage of this and the other doesn't'. I would have thought that the PL Grand Final this season, when a tactical ride turned a meeting on its head completely, would be more than adequate evidence of that. Many point to the 2006 Peterborough-Reading EL grand final as being one of the best ever, and that too was radically affected by a TR. Its absolutely true to suggest that it is only in a minority of meetings that a TR has significant effect, but its existence allows at least some meetings to be enhanced. Take it away, and they would have been dead.

 

I think Vince (as usual) is right. He hates the rule, but accepts that the number of people affected is minimal.

 

The fact that tactical changes have been in existence for 50 years is of itself evidence that speedway needs it - or at least, that it is desirable. I think you are right when you say that many would be pleased if TR's were scrapped, but I reiterate that I wonder whether they would be saying the same thing 2 or 3 seasons from now.

 

I do know of one top EL rider who is on a guarantee but he's the only one. Word I got was that Ward & Holder, for example, were both paid per point (albeit with sponsorship, flights etc thrown in). I'd say riders on large guarantees are very rare exceptions, and its more likely that it is those at the bottom end who have some sort of fixed amount agreed before hand.

 

Whenever I get into a discussion about riders wages, the amount per point comes up (albeit that they may get other funding as above). From that, I would say that the overwhelming number of those competing in the three leagues are paid that way. If that's the case, then my position regarding the cost of reverting to the TS is fully valid.

It will be HT - it will be. :sad:

 

Unless, of course, the ditch the Tactical Ride at the AGM. If they did, I would be there for the Official Practice and all Home Meetings (unless I was on Holiday, or had something on).

 

I must say that I do not expect to be attending any Speedway next year. :sad:

[Leicester Hunter]

i made a point of not attending any match containing this enhancement to the night's entertainment..

You didn't miss much, Mike. Let's not forget, this same competition saw Swindon eliminated by a hat !

[SCB]

Well, you did ask.

 

If a team was 6 (or was it 8?) points behind after heat 4 and before heat - well, that bit was open to a fair amount of interpretation, their team manager could nominate (a maximum of two times) a rider, but not the same one twice, to challenge a member of the opposition. A match race. Clear so far? But only one rider could score points, and that one was from the losing team. If the rider from the team that was ahead won, the heat was classified as a 0-0. With this 'facility' being used at any stage, the two boxes set aside for it in the programme were completely separate from the scorecard, so if it was used successfully, the scorecard didn't make any sense at all.

 

In all my years of following speedway, that has to be the daftest 'rule' ever....

That in itself sounds mad. But then they called it a "man on man heat". Brilliant.

 

Luckily with so many KOC fixtures not taking place that season very few people got to see it happen and it can be quietly forgotten about.

[Shale Searcher]

That in itself sounds mad. But then they called it a "man on man heat". Brilliant.

 

Luckily with so many KOC fixtures not taking place that season very few people got to see it happen and it can be quietly forgotten about.

 

Well, which barm pot thought that one up? nd was he immediately sectioned?

[Leicester Hunter]

Well, which barm pot thought that one up? nd was he immediately sectioned?

John Cook. He's still alive and well and promoting speedway at Lakeside.

[SteveLyric2]

John Cook. He's still alive and well and promoting speedway at Lakeside.

.....and is Vice Chair of the BSPA!!

[moxey63]

That was another killer for me - the Man O Man Race - that even the riders sent out to race in it were unsure what it was!

 

And again chaps, these people heap their ideas on us.. and run (or is is ru(i)n?) the sport.

 

I recall a KO Cup idea from about 20 years ago... in which the team with the highest losing aggregate would re-enter the competition at the next round - and actually ended up playing the same side that had eliminated them weeks before!

 

Only in speedway folks!!!!!!!

[proud panther]

Buster Chapman was standing near us at Peterborough when the man on man was used, & he didn't have a clue what was going on. As he is a very shrewd promoter, it makes you wonder how well the rule was explained !!

[arnieg]

That was another killer for me - the Man O Man Race - that even the riders sent out to race in it were unsure what it was!

 

And again chaps, these people heap their ideas on us.. and run (or is is ru(i)n?) the sport.

 

I recall a KO Cup idea from about 20 years ago... in which the team with the highest losing aggregate would re-enter the competition at the next round - and actually ended up playing the same side that had eliminated them weeks before!

 

Only in speedway folks!!!!!!!

And football!!

 

Remember the 1999-2000 FA Cup

[scotchopper]

Whilst the statement that the TR provides extra entertainment is not correct in terms of improving racing it does add something to the excitement of the meeting. The anticipation and drama it can provide does make it more exciting. When are they going to use it? Who do you trust? Surely they are not going to use it against our number 1? Should we switch the reserves to guard against it?

 

In meetings where one team develops a big lead you know that it is not definitely decided until both TRs had been used. Compare that with the KO Cup this year where no TRs were allowed matches were over by heat 8 and some cases earlier. One of the biggest cheers last season was when josh bates a guest reserve beat Jason Doyle on a TR

 

The recent PL Grand final is a perfect example of the drama it can provide.

After heat 8 monarchs fans were celebrating after sedgy and deek nullified the first TR with a 4-4. Massive cheer and the thought that we were almost there, ahead on aggregate with only 7 races left. Then heat 11 and the 1-8 turned everything on its head suddenly somerset were favourites. Another 2-4 in ht12 and it was almost mission impossible for the monarchs, somerset only needed 6 points from the last 3 races especially with the monarchs reserves not looking like scoring in ht14. Will never forget the drama and excitement of the next 3 races, it took 3 attempts to run ht13 with morris and masters not giving an inch. Then aaron fox passed starke in ht14 for the vital 3-3 after aspegren got the better of max. Then the tremendous first bend of cookie in ht15 to get sam into 2nd place. Will never see anything like it again.

 

At the end of the day monarchs won the title based on the TRs, we got 6 extra points at Somerset and they got 5 at armadale and we won by 1 point. Sedgy beating nick morris in heat 8 was the deciding factor. But both teams got to use 2 TRs so perfectly fair if you ask me.

 

The TR was a massive factor on the best speedway night in my life and it is an evening i will never forget.

 

I also wouldn't say it cheats for teams who build top heavy, everyone knows the rule exists and you will need to use it at some point over the season and would be part of deciding the type of rider you sign.

[The White Knight]

Whilst the statement that the TR provides extra entertainment is not correct in terms of improving racing it does add something to the excitement of the meeting. The anticipation and drama it can provide does make it more exciting. When are they going to use it? Who do you trust? Surely they are not going to use it against our number 1? Should we switch the reserves to guard against it?

 

In meetings where one team develops a big lead you know that it is not definitely decided until both TRs had been used. Compare that with the KO Cup this year where no TRs were allowed matches were over by heat 8 and some cases earlier. One of the biggest cheers last season was when josh bates a guest reserve beat Jason Doyle on a TR

 

The recent PL Grand final is a perfect example of the drama it can provide.

After heat 8 monarchs fans were celebrating after sedgy and deek nullified the first TR with a 4-4. Massive cheer and the thought that we were almost there, ahead on aggregate with only 7 races left. Then heat 11 and the 1-8 turned everything on its head suddenly somerset were favourites. Another 2-4 in ht12 and it was almost mission impossible for the monarchs, somerset only needed 6 points from the last 3 races especially with the monarchs reserves not looking like scoring in ht14. Will never forget the drama and excitement of the next 3 races, it took 3 attempts to run ht13 with morris and masters not giving an inch. Then aaron fox passed starke in ht14 for the vital 3-3 after aspegren got the better of max. Then the tremendous first bend of cookie in ht15 to get sam into 2nd place. Will never see anything like it again.

 

At the end of the day monarchs won the title based on the TRs, we got 6 extra points at Somerset and they got 5 at armadale and we won by 1 point. Sedgy beating nick morris in heat 8 was the deciding factor. But both teams got to use 2 TRs so perfectly fair if you ask me.

 

The TR was a massive factor on the best speedway night in my life and it is an evening i will never forget.

 

I also wouldn't say it cheats for teams who build top heavy, everyone knows the rule exists and you will need to use it at some point over the season and would be part of deciding the type of rider you sign.

I wonder what you have said if Edinburgh had NOT got the chance to use the Tactical Ride and LOST!!!

 

I suspect that you might have taken a different view?

[Halifaxtiger]

Will never see anything like it again.

 

The TR was a massive factor on the best speedway night in my life and it is an evening i will never forget.

 

The PL final was a classic example of just why tactical changes are very good for speedway. What's more important is that it is anything but the first or last time that that will happen.

I wonder what you have said if Edinburgh had NOT got the chance to use the Tactical Ride and LOST!!!

 

I suspect that you might have taken a different view?

 

Those who wish to rid the sport of tactical rides simply because their team has been on the receiving end of one - and I suspect that's a fair proportion- should be ignored completely.

 

Selfishness - whether from fans or promotions - is a blight on British speedway and one of the reasons why the sport is on its knees.

 

Any decisions regarding rulings should be made on what is best for speedway as a whole, not just because it does or doesn't suit a particular club.

It will be HT - it will be. :sad:

 

Unless, of course, the ditch the Tactical Ride at the AGM. If they did, I would be there for the Official Practice and all Home Meetings (unless I was on Holiday, or had something on).

 

I must say that I do not expect to be attending any Speedway next year. :sad:

 

Then that's a real shame.

 

I'll miss our attempts to wind Tsunami up and your reminiscences of Sunderland.

[Starman2006]

Buster Chapman was standing near us at Peterborough when the man on man was used, & he didn't have a clue what was going on. As he is a very shrewd promoter, it makes you wonder how well the rule was explained !!

Not very by the sounds of it..

[moxey63]

Remember Freddie Lindgren was confused when he contested one of the Man On Man heats.

 

Like pasty tax, no wonder the idea was axed.

 

The tale of the Man O Man will be on TV's Horrible Histories one day.

[Shale Searcher]

So, what was this tactical feature, can't say I have ever come across it before? How did it work, and how far behind (I assume it was for the losing side to use) did you have to be..........??

[The White Knight]

 

The PL final was a classic example of just why tactical changes are very good for speedway. What's more important is that it is anything but the first or last time that that will happen.

 

Those who wish to rid the sport of tactical rides simply because their team has been on the receiving end of one - and I suspect that's a fair proportion- should be ignored completely.

 

Selfishness - whether from fans or promotions - is a blight on British speedway and one of the reasons why the sport is on its knees.

 

Any decisions regarding rulings should be made on what is best for speedway as a whole, not just because it does or doesn't suit a particular club.

 

Then that's a real shame.

 

I'll miss our attempts to wind Tsunami up and your reminiscences of Sunderland.

I have NO axe to grind here. I believe the Tactical Ride is wrong for BOTH Sides, Home or Away, the Team I support or the opposing Team. I am against it altogether.

 

I tell you what HT - let me know when you are visiting Newcastle and I will come. The BSPA have cut at least one Tactical Ride so they have met me half way and they have restored the Yellow/Black Helmet Cover. They have also got rid of Tactical Rides altogether in Two Legged Meetings. I will probably attend the Cup Meetings.

 

Just the Play Offs and ONE Tactical Ride to be got rid of now - and - Happy Days.

Edited November 19, 2014 by The White Knight

[scotchopper]

I wonder what you have said if Edinburgh had NOT got the chance to use the Tactical Ride and LOST!!!

 

I suspect that you might have taken a different view?

Of course I would have been gutted if we lost that is the nature of sport. For every winner there is at least one loser. Teams will always find a reason why they lost. Somerset thought heat 15 should be rerun or getting olly Allen injured at the wrong time. Last year Morris taking out Joe tabaka had an impact on the result.

 

As I say there is always a hard luck story but for excitement and drama you will struggle to beat that and I hope a lot of the newbies or returners come back as a result.

 

The Pl have now removed trs for any 2 leg event to stop the scenario you are taking about happening which is probably correct but ordinary league matches matches are better for it. Fair or not close matches are what we are after. No one really enjoys Home teams racking up 60 points every week where the passing is all one way, get some close matches and some last heat deciders.

[E I Addio]

No one really enjoys Home teams racking up 60 points every week where the passing is all one way, get some close matches and some last heat deciders.

Home teams that rack up 60 points will still rack up 60 points whether you have a t/r or not. Having a T/R would simply mean that the losing team would potentially score 36 in your scenario instead of 30, and the T/R woul have made no difference to the quality of the racing.

[scotchopper]

Of course there will still be teams that hit 60 regardless all I am saying is that it will keep some matches close and close matches provide drama and excitement.

 

It can also produce better racing, when matches are over I am sure some riders go through the motions but if the result of the match is still in doubt they can make the extra effort for an overtake