Stoke Potters Sadly, The Perennial Failures

[iannewsman]

Well, after my 'discussion' at the beginning of the season and Mr Vasey basically asking everyone to 'wait and see', so I'm here to say well, we have seen and what did we get? The same flops as before.

 

What have we seen from the Potters this season? Yet again, nothing won as a team. They finally wimped out of the NL 4s yesterday and floped in the NL. Yes, they won the pairs but that has nothing to do with the team as it is down to two riders. No management input there. 'We made it to a final' they will say. 'You got battered in that as well' I say.

 

If you leave it to the management and the promotion you just get failure after failure. They can't even post any news, let alone an apology on their website as it has been closed for almost all of the season, why?

 

If you go on the BSPA web site and look in the NL section you find the last press release from Stoke was on the 9th Serptember and prior to that it was 30th July. In the news section you have to go back to the 16th July for something about the Potters.

 

So again I say to the management and the promotion...GO! You have dragged the Stoke Potters down to the lowest level of speedway and still the acheivements are pitiful.

 

So come on Mr Vasey, what about some excuses for this season? Oh and don't bother with the 'Ben Wilson left us in the lurch' excuse as that happens to all teams and yet most seem to find replacements but Stoke never do and it has gone on like that for years.

 

 

[Storming Norman]

It will be interesting to read what Malcolm thinks.

At the start of the season, the Stoke Promotion did seem to be trying to provide a competitive team and a better race track. Results have been better, home fixtures have been completed plus as you post, they won the NL Pairs. So it feels like a decent season. But I agree a non functioning web site and irregular Press Releases aren't good enough. Perhaps the ultimate test is have attendances improved?

Malcolm, it's good things have improved, keep it going.

[greyhoundp]

Leaving aside the PR Issues Stoke did have a better season, but what amazes me was everyone highlighting the Ben Wilson leaving, in my humble opinion the rider you missed most was the one rarely mentioned the loss of James McBain was the main reason The Stoke season faded from mid season onwards.

[TMW]

Who would you have signed to replace Ben!

 

I'm not going to pretend that everything at Stoke is perfect but The meetings were run in double quick time apart from a couple where incidents occurred to memory James being taken to Hospital and the track conditions of the Kent meeting. The track was good although dusty at times but many tracks suffered from that in the hot weather we got mid summer.

 

The original team was good I think the combination of losing Ben and James were extra factors.

The PA on the 3rd and 4th bend is difficult to hear but that could be the announcer if he talks in a whisper.

No parade at the beginning of the meeting. There was one when up against Kings Lynn I think and it added a whole new dimension to the meeting.

 

Bar and stand are cosmetic and better to have a good ridable track than fancy buildings although if they would let a few volunteers down there in the winter to tidy it up it could only enhance the product.

 

The loss of the website was sad.

 

One final thing......... The management can't ride the bikes themselves. Yes the manager should be there for tactics etc. It's up to the riders to ride the bikes and if things start to go wrong for them sometimes it's difficult to pick yourself up from a downward spiral but they never stopped trying.

 

You can lay the blame of many things at the feet of the management but performance on track is squarely the riders responsibility.

[iannewsman]

The fact remains that the Stoke Potters have never won any 'team' silverware under this promotion and management. It has been a steady decline and slide down the speedway ladder. Yes, the manager picks the team and can't ride the bikes, but they can sack the under performers and get others in. They failed to do that to any effect in the PL and it continues in the NL. Yes they won the pairs and this proves my point, take management out of the equasion and Stoke win. The pairs is all down to the riders. Put the management back in and they lose time after time.

I don't hold with all that 'this season was better' nonsense. As a team (4 and 7 rider events) they have failed again and again for years. The Stoke Potters under this promotion have won nothing!

[TMW]

The fact remains that the Stoke Potters have never won any 'team' silverware under this promotion and management. It has been a steady decline and slide down the speedway ladder. Yes, the manager picks the team and can't ride the bikes, but they can sack the under performers and get others in. They failed to do that to any effect in the PL and it continues in the NL. Yes they won the pairs and this proves my point, take management out of the equasion and Stoke win. The pairs is all down to the riders. Put the management back in and they lose time after time.

I don't hold with all that 'this season was better' nonsense. As a team (4 and 7 rider events) they have failed again and again for years. The Stoke Potters under this promotion have won nothing!

No doubt there is a shortage of riders. Already short of Ben and James changing more could be difficult. I've not looked ate the averages You could have replaced Widman or Payne with Chessell I suppose or Maybe Priest but I think Priest and Chessell had already been signed by other clubs when the downturn started. I'm not sure there were many heatleaders knocking about without a job. Stokes would have always gone to KL. I can't think of anyone else.

 

You may want to explain where you think Malcolm went wrong in the 4's. Selectionwise he had no choice.

 

Maybe one of the PL supporters (unless you can) may want to inject an opinion on whether team 'strenghening' in the PL was anymore successful.

Edited October 27, 2014 by TMW

[lucifer sam]

Having won the NL Pairs, aren't Stoke the only team apart from Cradley likely to win anything at NL this season?

 

All the best

Rob

[Halifaxtiger]

It will be interesting to read what Malcolm thinks.

At the start of the season, the Stoke Promotion did seem to be trying to provide a competitive team and a better race track. Results have been better, home fixtures have been completed plus as you post, they won the NL Pairs. So it feels like a decent season. But I agree a non functioning web site and irregular Press Releases aren't good enough. Perhaps the ultimate test is have attendances improved?

Malcolm, it's good things have improved, keep it going.

 

If Malcolm has any sense he won't respond to someone who never says a good word about the promotion and who was very, very quiet indeed at the start of the year when everyone was commenting about the fact that gates were up, the team looked good and the track was far, far better than it had been.

 

I am sure he will reserve his comments for the genuine fans who were disappointed with 2014, not those who positively relish that it wasn't a good year for the Potters.

 

Stoke's season was destroyed when Ben Wilson left and James McBain got injured. Up to that point, they had one of best reserves in the league and one of the most potent No 1's. I had them down as dark horses for the league and with that team almost certainties for the play offs. There's a possibility that they might have seen that Wilson would leave, but McBain's injury was something that could not be predicted.

 

I'd maintain that the track still isn't anywhere near as good as it should be - to me, its one of the best shaped in the country - but it had improved and that and the team line up at the start of the season were reflected in increased attendances at that point. Stoke at least tried to change things for the better and that's all to their credit.

Edited October 27, 2014 by Halifaxtiger

[iannewsman]

Maybe one of the PL supporters (unless you can) may want to inject an opinion on whether team 'strenghening' in the PL was anymore successful.

It wasn't, that was my point. It never has been.

Having won the NL Pairs, aren't Stoke the only team apart from Cradley likely to win anything at NL this season?

 

All the best

Rob

Yes and again you missed the point. Nothing won as a 'team' AGAIN! The pairs is just down to the riders efferts.

 

If Malcolm has any sense he won't respond to someone who never says a good word about the promotion and who was very, very quiet indeed at the start of the year

 

I was FAR from quite at the beginning of the season and I said the team would fail again under this mamagement and promotion. I just stopped posting so that we could see how things panned out. Now I am back on to do a bit of 'Told you so' now that Stoke has failed again, as I predicted.

[greyhoundp]

It wasn't, that was my point. It never has been.

Yes and again you missed the point. Nothing won as a 'team' AGAIN! The pairs is just down to the riders efferts.

 

So without being detrimental if Stoke had selected lets say, Kirby and Shuttleworth for the pairs would they have won ?.

[Halifaxtiger]

I was FAR from quite at the beginning of the season and I said the team would fail again under this mamagement and promotion. I just stopped posting so that we could see how things panned out. Now I am back on to do a bit of 'Told you so' now that Stoke has failed again, as I predicted.

 

That is true. Before the season you were pretty noisy.

 

Its was when Stoke were doing well that you shut up, because there's no way you'd give the present promotion the slightest bit of credit.

 

I bet you are really disappointed that Malcolm hasn't taken the bait and that it is you and not he who is getting all the flak.

[TMW]

It wasn't, that was my point. It never has been.

.

I'm not being funny but you will only gain credibility for your argument if you give constructive criticism. Your comments are too generic no specifics and no suggestions on what he did wrong Or what he should have done different.

 

I'm happy to listen to your argument but it has to be constructve.

[Storming Norman]

 

If Malcolm has any sense he won't respond to someone who never says a good word about the promotion and who was very, very quiet indeed at the start of the year when everyone was commenting about the fact that gates were up, the team looked good and the track was far, far better than it had been.

 

I am sure he will reserve his comments for the genuine fans who were disappointed with 2014, not those who positively relish that it wasn't a good year for the Potters.

 

Stoke's season was destroyed when Ben Wilson left and James McBain got injured. Up to that point, they had one of best reserves in the league and one of the most potent No 1's. I had them down as dark horses for the league and with that team almost certainties for the play offs. There's a possibility that they might have seen that Wilson would leave, but McBain's injury was something that could not be predicted.

 

I'd maintain that the track still isn't anywhere near as good as it should be - to me, its one of the best shaped in the country - but it had improved and that and the team line up at the start of the season were reflected in increased attendances at that point. Stoke at least tried to change things for the better and that's all to their credit.

HalifaxTiger, was this reply seriously addressed to me?

If it was, I suggest you reread my posting which I believe is a fair and balanced assessment of 2014 and isn't negative anyway.

[Halifaxtiger]

HalifaxTiger, was this reply seriously addressed to me?

If it was, I suggest you reread my posting which I believe is a fair and balanced assessment of 2014 and isn't negative anyway.

 

Certainly not.

 

It was in response to post 9 which hadn't been lined up correctly.

 

I thought your post was very fair indeed

[vog]

I really don't know where to begin with Stoke this year.

 

At the start of the season, it was always said that Wilson would be a top rider in the league, that Armstrong and Hopwood would be steady, and that we would need improvement from the rest of the team. At the start of the season, everything was going well. McBain looked good, Shuttleworth looked promising, and no-one could have seen how Widman would take off.

 

At that point, the wheels fell off. Wilson left and McBain got injured and never returned. Riders are in and out of form in a season, which happens, but it is difficult to sustain a team doing well when you lose a 10 point rider and a 3 point rider who was averaging 7. The fact that we won the pairs was nice, because any silverware is appreciated. The fact that we got hammered in the National Trophy final hurts, because the team that got us to the final didn't resemble the team that rode in the final, due to injuries and loss of form.

 

On track, the track has been better this season than others, but that should be expected given the amount of work that was done on it over the close season. Those problems will have cost money to fix, so I don't envy them in having to do it, but it had to be done or the track was useless.

 

Away from the track, however, it has continued to be a disappointment. No real marketing strategy, no regular press releases, no recognised press officer (And I am not in any way knocking the job Malcolm does there, but it is difficult to be a promoter, team manager and press officer, and still lead any form of normal life!). Add in the fact I noticed the marketing manager (Or whatever she was known as) vanished in the off season, and we still had no real form of external advertisement, and it was always bound to be a disappointment. For whatever reason, the Stoke promotion seem to have an opinion that people will turn up, and if they don't, there is no way of attracting them. There is no visable work done on increasing the crowds, and what little PR we had fell by the wayside when our website closed mid season, never to return.

 

The thing is, I have said all this before. I can sit here until I am blue in the face and talk about how Stoke hasn't progressed, and about what needs to happen to give it a chance at survival, but the more I think about it, the more I am sure that they are happy to run at NL, break even on that and cream the profits from the Stock Cars. It just seems like this is the sad existence that we find ourselves in. As much as I hope for a new promotion with new ideas, or even the current promotion bringing the right people in alongside them, it won't happen. I've known Stoke fans over the years who had the skills that the promotion could have called on to put Stoke on the right track, but they were never used, or those who were were later bemoaned by the promotion for not supporting the team. Hell, even I've had the promotion scream in my face and call me all sorts of names because I had an opinion. I have a thick skin, and I will always support the riders on track, but more and more it becomes a question of justifying the cost. Speedway isn't cheap, but I would support Stoke because that is what it is to be a fan. Win or lose, you shout and scream for the riders wearing your club crest on their chests, but at the end of last season I questioned why I should make the effort to go when the promotion appeared to make no effort to improve themselves, and at the end of this season I am asking the same questions.

 

Something has to give, because the crowds are getting worse. Stoke fans will generally support a winning team, if they know about it. The first season in the NL, when we topped the league and were in the KoC final, the crowds were fantastic, and there was a genuine buzz around the place. Instead of capitalizing on that, and using that feeling, they followed it up with terrible seasons. Any buzz there was is gone. Any hope that fans have is replaced with sneers, mocking jibes and a reminder of a mythical "3 year plan".

 

But let's face it. They won't sell. They won't ever let someone get close enough to have a real go at giving Stoke some life, and they will run it into the ground. And when all that is left is a memory of Stoke Speedway, they will wander off into the sunset, without a second thought. That is what I have come to expect from a club that I have given 15 years worth of Saturday nights to.

[iannewsman]

Well said Vog.

[ch958]

how does it happen that a once first division side (many years ago admittedly), regular NL/PL competitors in the second tier end up as also rans in the third tier.

 

As a neutral who knows nothing about the circumstances i keep waiting for them to rejoin the PL

[vog]

how does it happen that a once first division side (many years ago admittedly), regular NL/PL competitors in the second tier end up as also rans in the third tier.

 

As a neutral who knows nothing about the circumstances i keep waiting for them to rejoin the PL

 

You'll be waiting a while.

 

Something isn't right at the club, but it's hard to put a finger on what. At a guess, it starts with the fact that our 2 owners are divorced from each other, which can't help. There have always been rumours flying around about who runs the finances, and about how accurate they are, but that is not for me to comment on here. Suffice to say that when one promoter said that in 2004, he averaged 400 paying customers a week, I find it hard to believe how accurate those figures are.

 

However, Stoke have never been good at building teams, even going back before the Tattums were involved. This year was the 70th anniversary of the last 7 man trophy we won, so it isn't just a Tattum thing, it is a Stoke thing. When we moved down, we were told it was due to financial reasons. They had spent too much money in the previous season and owed too much money out, and that they wanted to move down to allow them to level back out. That first season was a success, even if there was no team trophy. It was unfortunate that we probably had the best team that year, but the Cameron Heeps saga, combined with Stoke losing most of their riders to injury at the end of the year, meant that we just couldn't compete in the finals that we made.

 

Since then, you could point to excuses, you could say it is bad team building, but whatever it is, it is a continuing thing. The crowds come back if we win, and stay away if we lose. The problem is that every time we lose, fewer and fewer people turn up. It is one thing losing in the PL, but people view it as an entirely different thing to be losing in the NL. I think a part of it is that there are a lot of Stoke fans who would go to Buxton, to see a different level of racing, and put money into a smaller club. Now seeing this "smaller club" beating them as equals doesn't sit right with fans who were used to welcoming Sheffield, Edinburgh and the like. (This isn't a pop at Buxton! Please don't take it as such)

 

The simple fact is that they are in a vicious cycle, that the fans don't go because they are fed up with the promotion, the promotion don't want to sell, but year on year they are struggling. If you ask Mr Tattum, he would say that he would sell if the right offer came along. If you ask the former Mrs Tattum, she will never sell. Maybe there lies your problem.

[Mike.Butler]

is this the longest run in speedway history for a club to go without winning a league title?

[Wiz555]

I think it is unfair to say we 'wimped' out of the 4s. As someone who was there, I think, and it is only my opinion, but Jon Armstrong was great to watch and did us proud. Rob Shuttleworth did incredibly well as the first full race on a dodgy track and was unlucky on his last ride. Both of these riders could not have tried harder for us as a team. It seemed to me Chris widman had bike issues, and on seeing him walk back to the pits, no one seemed more disappointed than he was. At all times, I think these riders come across as 'club men' and I certainly didn't feel that they 'wimped' out of the 4s.