barncooseboy Posted December 6, 2014 Report Share Posted December 6, 2014 A possible explanation, was Debbie and Gary May actually at the AGM for every day, the V & I announcement to all PRESENT was made on one of the days, it was not included in the conference press statement, so if you werent there you wouldnt know it was said and so the team building could have continued in ignorance of the change of circumstances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halifaxtiger Posted December 6, 2014 Report Share Posted December 6, 2014 (edited) no change has been announced because as far as the UK Visa and Immigration department the 7 point assessment for Non EU riders has been in force for some years, the BSPA in their wisdom decided to allow Aussie riders to come in on a 5 INDEPENDENT OF THE OPINION of the UK Visa and Immigration service. They have also ignored the requirement that the riders from non EU countries actually achieve their assessed average within 2 years or no further visas are issued and the non complying riders have to return to their country of origin. CVS and others at the meeting with the UK V & I were astonished when they were presented with listing of the averages of all visa issued riders, visa and immigration are watching speedway closely, this attempt at getting around the agreed figures will not be tolerated. I believe Jack Holder could be on the next flight back to OZ without leaving the airport IF the 5 assessment continues There is a change, though, and you only have to read the SCB Regs (18.6) for that. There's no doubt that based upon that Holder is a 5.00. If it wasn't announced as part of the press release (and as far as I am aware it wasn't), it bloody well should have been. We wouldn't even be having this argument if it had. Sissis has dual nationality via his Greek parents and should be exempt from this drama. The question is whether Sheffield knew that (and, indeed, if its true). If they did, you would have thought that they would have mentioned it in their press release when he signed. It really is about Somerset. Berwick can accomodate Allen on a 5 or a 7 at present, and so indeed could Sheffield (if Sissis doesn't have EU citizenship). Just depends who else they sign up. Somerset are the team who have declared an over-the-limit 1-7, presuming Holder will be a 7. Both Sheffield and Berwick can accommodate Allen & Sissis at this point on a 7.00 (if necessary). The question remains whether they knew that they were coming in on a 7.00 or a 5.00. To me, its not Somerset (or any other club) that are to blame, its the BSPA because what we have is the usual secrecy and back door dealings. If this had been made public after the AGM, there would be no dispute whatsoever. Well, it's the same guy making the same 'mistakes' apparently. Or alternatively its some unnamed person at the BSPA - because Somerset apparently have confirmation from them (as they did last season regarding Kurtz) that Holder is a 5.00 - making those mistakes. Part of the problem with this is that its always 'someone at the BSPA' - names are never mentioned. When will it be the case that someone actually takes responsibility for decision making ? Edited December 6, 2014 by Halifaxtiger 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foamfence Posted December 6, 2014 Report Share Posted December 6, 2014 If Scunny knew (and they did) then Somerset should have. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil The Ace Posted December 6, 2014 Report Share Posted December 6, 2014 (edited) Dont they have to declare the team to the BSPA first. so why didd'nt the BSPA pull Somerset up on it knowing they would be releasing the riders when they did. BSPA have not helped Somerset here Edited December 6, 2014 by Phil The Ace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontforgetthefueltapsbruv Posted December 6, 2014 Report Share Posted December 6, 2014 A possible explanation, was Debbie and Gary May actually at the AGM for every day, the V & I announcement to all PRESENT was made on one of the days, it was not included in the conference press statement, so if you werent there you wouldnt know it was said and so the team building could have continued in ignorance of the change of circumstances.I dont buy this one. Even IF they werent present, which I would find unlikely, I would very much doubt that the only communication they woukd receive is the standard press release. Surely promotions would be provided with detailed minutes and/or a full summary of agreed changes? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montie Posted December 6, 2014 Report Share Posted December 6, 2014 If Scunny knew (and they did) then Somerset should have. Everyone knew...as did Somerset!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halifaxtiger Posted December 6, 2014 Report Share Posted December 6, 2014 Why so angry!? I contacted the SCB yesterday, and have received this reply: "At the Agm it was clearly stated that a decision was required by UKBA. Maybe SOMERSET took a chance. When the UKBA decision is made the clubs will be officially informed." The situation turns again. How is that all clubs have been informed of a UKBA decision that apparently hasn't even been made ? If that is the case my source is right and the UKBA haven't done anything. Could it be the case that certain clubs thought that the UKBA would impose a 7.00 ruling so didn't pursue particular riders and have now been left looking daft ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted December 6, 2014 Report Share Posted December 6, 2014 Never said or implied he was as good as Doyle. Very selective argument, but not even 'doubting' you can disagree that Josh is a better rider now. Is that why Josh's average dropped last year,8-41 when he last rode for Somerset now 8-11. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted December 6, 2014 Report Share Posted December 6, 2014 (edited) The rule book for 2015 will not even at the printers yet. It needs decisions made at the AGM to be ratified, and printing of the rule book can commence. The rules being quoted are from the 2014 rule book. As 'dontforgetthefueltsbrov' has said, the draft minutes will be circulated and then published as "a true record". What I am told is Gary knew at the AGM. Is that why Josh's average dropped last year,8-41 when he last rode for Somerset now 8-11. But riding at number 1 at Worky with harder rides. Also ignoring his form at Poole of course. Edited December 6, 2014 by Tsunami Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skidder1 Posted December 6, 2014 Report Share Posted December 6, 2014 Maybe there was confusion at the AGM as to who owned Jack Holder and whether the 7 point PL average or the 5point EL average would apply??!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenga Posted December 6, 2014 Report Share Posted December 6, 2014 i can forgive somerset for falling foul of new rules. fancy having a 2015 agm when we are still in 2014. stupid. now in simple maths . somerset were only 1 number out.5 or 7. its only 1 number out. come on give the cheaters a break. we all need a break at sometime in our lives. its not their fault they didnt stick in at school during the maths lessons. so come on guy/gals , cut em some slack and let them hang them selves. its no big loss. remember james holder. you know the brother of chris holder. where is he now. oh i know., he is on tv, fighting with other riders backingup his own blood. so lets relax and see how jack gets on .. he could be top drawer, or just be a over hyped aussie kid. .. just remember .. cheats never prosper roll on march and lets not let this cheat get away with it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Najjer Posted December 6, 2014 Report Share Posted December 6, 2014 But riding at number 1 at Worky with harder rides. Also ignoring his form at Poole of course. Probably not the best arguement to put forward as he is now going to be riding at number 1 for us now - however there is no doubting Josh is a better all round rider in my opinion. I would be interested to see his home and away average split comparing 2013 and 2014. Oldtimer, just because he has effectively gone from 3rd heat leader (the same year he won the pairs don't forget) to now number 1, that also has a bearing on the rest of the side. In 2010 we started the season with two 3 pointers and two 5 pointers.... This year we only have one, at the moment ;-) whilst we aren't as strong at the top we have made up for it elsewhere in just a different make up of a team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crescent girl Posted December 6, 2014 Report Share Posted December 6, 2014 To be fair, it appears that nobody really knows if anyone is "cheating" or not. Cheating is the wrong word. The furore is about Somerset having apparently declared a 1-7 well over the limit. Again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenga Posted December 6, 2014 Report Share Posted December 6, 2014 we could always remove the word .. dheats.. and replace it with thick bar people. maybe that would be better for them. but i like the word CHEAT as it shows they have little or no respect for the rules of speedway. they were there at the agm and chose to put on their blinkers and turn up the volume on their i pad. yep cheats is better imo. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barncooseboy Posted December 6, 2014 Report Share Posted December 6, 2014 The UK Border Agency was disbanded on the last day of March, it is now the Visa and Immigration Service to more closely reflect what it does. The BSPA, as the recognised body for speedway riders in the UK were asked to complete new paperwork to take account of the change of circumstances. The permanent staff at the BSPA Office failed to reply to the government and hence the chaos at the beginning of the 2014 season which resulted in Alex Daviies and a few others being rdefused Visas to come to the UK because at that point the Visa agency did not have a recognised 'expert' body to consuult regarding the applicants suitability to come to the UK to be employed potentially keeping a British person out of a job. The V and i were then ignored for several months and no visa applications could progress because the BSPA Office were going home early, playing POETS DAY every day and ignoring the need. Eventually, with applicatio time for riders returning home fast approaching a meeting between the two bodies was held, at that meeting the V and I EXPRESSED surprise that the BSPA had independently decided to modify the terms of the agreement between the two bodies and non EU riders were rated at an assessed 5 not the 7 of the years old agreement. The V and I pointed out it wzaas not within the powers of the BSPA to independantly change the agreement conditions and hence the statement at the AGM that non EU Riders were now assessed on 7 points. The BSPA are trying to negotiate a return to their figure of 5 in view of the current furore over non EU immigration dont hold your breath.No announcement of the change seems to have been announced because it would have involved the BSPA admitting it had flouted Government regulations for years, since whenever the limit was reduced to 5. The BSPA have merely agreed to stick to government regulations, dont they call those Laws. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barncooseboy Posted December 6, 2014 Report Share Posted December 6, 2014 Declaring a team and getting BSPA approval for that team are two different things, until such time as the BSPA approve the declaration the named riders remain an aspiration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac101 Posted December 6, 2014 Report Share Posted December 6, 2014 Will Hav to wait and see if all these riders get a visa for riding in the U.K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
springdale Posted December 6, 2014 Report Share Posted December 6, 2014 i can forgive somerset for falling foul of new rules. fancy having a 2015 agm when we are still in 2014. stupid. now in simple maths . somerset were only 1 number out.5 or 7. its only 1 number out. come on give the cheaters a break. we all need a break at sometime in our lives. its not their fault they didnt stick in at school during the maths lessons. so come on guy/gals , cut em some slack and let them hang them selves. its no big loss. remember james holder. you know the brother of chris holder. where is he now. oh i know., he is on tv, fighting with other riders backingup his own blood. so lets relax and see how jack gets on .. he could be top drawer, or just be a over hyped aussie kid. .. just remember .. cheats never prosper roll on march and lets not let this cheat get away with it... OH dear someones bitter, I wonder why !! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenga Posted December 6, 2014 Report Share Posted December 6, 2014 oh , i wonder why people drink and drive. maybe they think they can get away with it. look, its the close seaoun and this topic is HOT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dietbowers Posted December 6, 2014 Report Share Posted December 6, 2014 oh , i wonder why people drink and drive. maybe they think they can get away with it. look, its the close seaoun and this topic is HOT. Most people don`t drink and drive...they spill too much if they do... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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