E I Addio Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 Some people find your viewpoint strange ..if you believe in the British justice system then you should able to work again once you served your time after all that is how it's supposed to work . No wonder people go back to crime if this is the state of things . n . It's not the British justice system that's stopping him working its public opinion, which can be very fickle and inconsistent. Lots of people in the public eye have lost their careers because of some misdemeanour, be it serious or minor. On the other hand if it had been some pop singer doing exactly the same as Evans, he would probably have been soon forgiven. In one sense I can see why it can be argued that he has had a bad deal, but as you say he had behaved like a scumbag so I won't lose any sleep over him. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 In one sense I can see why it can be argued that he has had a bad deal, but as you say he had behaved like a scumbag so I won't lose any sleep over him. Is Britain really that prudish that anyone having sex with another person is "scumbag"? And since when did being a "scumbag" become a crime? And as pointed out, when you commit a crime you're given a punishment by the courts and once it's complete you're free to go about your life in the way the courts see fit. Here we have the public deciding what to do. Maybe we should start a campaign every time someone comes out of prison for them to be ostracised from society too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 Is Britain really that prudish that anyone having sex with another person is "scumbag"? And since when did being a "scumbag" become a crime? And as pointed out, when you commit a crime you're given a punishment by the courts and once it's complete you're free to go about your life in the way the courts see fit. Here we have the public deciding what to do. Maybe we should start a campaign every time someone comes out of prison for them to be ostracised from society too. If it had been a speedway rider, he'd be ostracised by many - especially on forums like this - even if he wasn't found guilty!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 (edited) Is Britain really that prudish that anyone having sex with another person is "scumbag"? And since when did being a "scumbag" become a crime? And as pointed out, when you commit a crime you're given a punishment by the courts and once it's complete you're free to go about your life in the way the courts see fit. Here we have the public deciding what to do. Maybe we should start a campaign every time someone comes out of prison for them to be ostracised from society too. It's not about him having sex thou it's the way he went about it plus the fact he had a girlfriend etc etc . I agree he should be allowed to fit back into society thou after he done his time thou his stance about being not guilty what is fair enough and understandable if he is will not help him to play football any time soon by the looks of it . Edited December 23, 2014 by orion 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halifaxtiger Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 Is Britain really that prudish that anyone having sex with another person is "scumbag"? And since when did being a "scumbag" become a crime? And as pointed out, when you commit a crime you're given a punishment by the courts and once it's complete you're free to go about your life in the way the courts see fit. Here we have the public deciding what to do. Maybe we should start a campaign every time someone comes out of prison for them to be ostracised from society too. Having sex with someone isn't a crime. Rape is, and he was found guilty of it. I don't think the description 'scumbag' in such circumstances is an unreasonable one, and I suspect that many would probably use something a lot stronger. I think E I Addio is spot on. Its fair point that he's served his time so he should be able to start again, but I can very much understand why people deeply object to having a convicted rapist in such a high profile profession. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 Having sex with someone isn't a crime. Rape is, and he was found guilty of it. I don't think the description 'scumbag' in such circumstances is an unreasonable one, and I suspect that many would probably use something a lot stronger. I used the word scumbag for the way he acted not that he was found guilty of rape as I don't think he should have been found guilty there a big difference .. that's what Scb was replying to . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 Is Britain really that prudish that anyone having sex with another person is "scumbag"? And since when did being a "scumbag" become a crime? And as pointed out, when you commit a crime you're given a punishment by the courts and once it's complete you're free to go about your life in the way the courts see fit. Here we have the public deciding what to do. Maybe we should start a campaign every time someone comes out of prison for them to be ostracised from society too. As Orion has already pointed out its not the rape it's the way he went about it. Call it what you like, prudish, hypocritical, double standards , fair, unfair, or whatever, the bottom line is that ultimately the public pay his wages and they decide, however fsir or unfair that decision is, and anyone who serves the public needs to keep on the right side of public opinion. Even his companion , McDonald who was found not guilty is complaining that the trial has adversely afected his career. These people are happy to accept the accolades when public opinion puts them on a pedestal , they can't really complain when the public knock them down . Fair or unfair doesn't come into it. Evans himself said that playing professional football is a rare and exceptional privilege. If he doesn't keep his nose clean and keep out of trouble he only has himself to blame if he gets on the wrong side of public opinion. On the other side of the coin, I was walking through the underpass at South Kensington station a couple of years ago and I heard this woman busker singing with a really fantastic voice. She was far better than the dross on X-Factor but she wasn't very photogenic and public opinion says female singers have to look a bit sexy, so there she was busking while better looking worse singers earn a fortune. Not fair, just the way public opinion goes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pugwash Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 If it had been a speedway rider, he'd be ostracised by many - especially on forums like this - even if he wasn't found guilty!!! He'd be guilty if he rode for Poole.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemini Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 On the other side of the coin, I was walking through the underpass at South Kensington station a couple of years ago and I heard this woman busker singing with a really fantastic voice. She was far better than the dross on X-Factor but she wasn't very photogenic and public opinion says female singers have to look a bit sexy, so there she was busking while better looking worse singers earn a fortune. Not fair, just the way public opinion goes. Not sure I agree with that statement as Susan Boyle seems to have done pretty well for herself as a dowdy middle aged woman when she started out on 'Britain's Got Talent'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 Not sure I agree with that statement as Susan Boyle seems to have done pretty well for herself as a dowdy middle aged woman when she started out on 'Britain's Got Talent'. The exception that proves the rule. She stands out as the only dowdy spinster in stark contrast to most of the others who spend a fortune on image, including all kinds of plastic surgery to try to fight back the advancing years. Plus Susan Boyle would never have made it on her own merit without the right media packaging that came with Cowell and the X-factor. Generally speaking fickle public opinion demands looks ahead of talent. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 Pretty impossible to judge someone just by walking past by a tube station.You'd have no idea on what career they have.I have seen video of 'stars'(at least they have record deals and play packed out concerts) busking on the streets and have heard a brilliant opera singer busking in London.No idea if she was a 'star' on the opera scene or even in musicals etc........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 It's not the British justice system that's stopping him working its public opinion, which can be very fickle and inconsistent. Lots of people in the public eye have lost their careers because of some misdemeanour, be it serious or minor. On the other hand if it had been some pop singer doing exactly the same as Evans, he would probably have been soon forgiven. In one sense I can see why it can be argued that he has had a bad deal, but as you say he had behaved like a scumbag so I won't lose any sleep over him. I would like to have 'Liked' this Post - but - I do not like the highlighted bit. My problem with this is that the man has served his time. He also maintains his innocence. There is a lot written in the Press and on TV that he has shown no remorse and has not apologised. I would ask you to consider, for a moment, that he is actually innocent as he claims. What then? To apologise for something you have not done, or to express remorse for something you have not done is tantamount to admitting guilt. IF he is guilty - I still believe that he has done the Crime and has served his time. Rape is a heinous Crime - but the Law is satisfied with his Sentence - perhaps we should be too. OR: Do we want to resort to mob Rule and have him living on Benefits for the rest of his life? Is Britain really that prudish that anyone having sex with another person is "scumbag"? And since when did being a "scumbag" become a crime? And as pointed out, when you commit a crime you're given a punishment by the courts and once it's complete you're free to go about your life in the way the courts see fit. Here we have the public deciding what to do. Maybe we should start a campaign every time someone comes out of prison for them to be ostracised from society too. EXACTLY - see above. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 I would like to have 'Liked' this Post - but - I do not like the highlighted bit. My problem with this is that the man has served his time. He also maintains his innocence. There is a lot written in the Press and on TV that he has shown no remorse and has not apologised. I would ask you to consider, for a moment, that he is actually innocent as he claims. What then? To apologise for something you have not done, or to express remorse for something you have not done is tantamount to admitting guilt. IF he is guilty - I still believe that he has done the Crime and has served his time. Rape is a heinous Crime - but the Law is satisfied with his Sentence - perhaps we should be too. OR: Do we want to resort to mob Rule and have him living on Benefits for the rest of his life? EXACTLY - see above. Of course the punishment is NOT completed, as I believed that only the custodial sentence has been served. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 When you've committed a serious crime, there is no guarantee you can simply resume your previous profession. Teachers, lawyers etc. would be precluded should they get a rape conviction. in this case, he has a public role, and hence the public hsve the right (freedom of speech) to express their thoughts. It is then down to employers to choose whether public backlash outweighs what ched brings to their business. I dont think anyone objects to ched having a job, but people do object to it being a high profile one. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YerRopes Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 Of course the punishment is NOT completed, as I believed that only the custodial sentence has been served. That's my understanding too Tsunami... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 burn him!!! burn him!!! buuuuuurrrrrrrrnnnnn hiiiiimmmmmmmm! or at least put him on a ducking stool to see if he weighs the same as a duck..... seriously, let him get a job but not a 'nice one', that would be 'ok' and will let lots of people sleep better in their beds, feeling justice has been done (again in his case)and we can all self righteously move on..... no maybe not, changed my mind, because he's a 'role model' his actions could warp the fragile minds of the yoof of today, yes that makes sense, if my son behaves the same it is down to evans not me as his dad who has brought him up so..... let's buuuuuuurrrrrrrrrnnnnnn hiiiiiiiiiiimmmmmmmm 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arson fire Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 (edited) http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/11310292/Ched-Evans-must-be-allowed-to-play-football-and-society-answers-to-the-rule-of-law-not-the-mob.html Spot on imo Is this the same Charlie Webster who was gutted she never got a picture with Mike Tyson???..... The convicted rapist?? Is the woman is a hypocrite? Edited December 23, 2014 by Arson fire 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 (edited) http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/11310292/Ched-Evans-must-be-allowed-to-play-football-and-society-answers-to-the-rule-of-law-not-the-mob.html Spot on imo Is this the same Charlie Webster who was gutted she never got a picture with Mike Tyson???..... The convicted rapist?? Is the woman is a hypocrite? I expect it's the same Webster who when she done the darts was more than happy to talk and joke with Phil Taylor ...maybe she went back to his caravan after ? Edited December 23, 2014 by orion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 When you've committed a serious crime, there is no guarantee you can simply resume your previous profession. Teachers, lawyers etc. would be precluded should they get a rape conviction. in this case, he has a public role, and hence the public hsve the right (freedom of speech) to express their thoughts. It is then down to employers to choose whether public backlash outweighs what ched brings to their business. I dont think anyone objects to ched having a job, but people do object to it being a high profile one. So Ched decides next week, sod it, can't play football, have no qualifications, I'm off to work for McDonalds, they give him a job. As a famous person it will be in the papers that disgraced footballed Ched Evans is flipping burgers. Do the public have the right to get upset about that one too? So McDonalds then sack him, then what? He lives on benefits and we fund him until his dying day and he's punished for possibly 70 years? Great idea. Hes served his time, he should now be free to do whatever he wishes within the law. Nothing in the law stops him being a footballer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halifaxtiger Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 (edited) So Ched decides next week, sod it, can't play football, have no qualifications, I'm off to work for McDonalds, they give him a job. As a famous person it will be in the papers that disgraced footballed Ched Evans is flipping burgers. Do the public have the right to get upset about that one too? So McDonalds then sack him, then what? He lives on benefits and we fund him until his dying day and he's punished for possibly 70 years? Great idea. Hes served his time, he should now be free to do whatever he wishes within the law. Nothing in the law stops him being a footballer. You're right that nothing in the law should stop him resuming a former career. But as is evident, public opinion can and that is of relevance in a profession where the business relies almost completely on public support. While I see the argument that someone has served their time, I can very much appreciate why people object to a convicted rapist being in a high profile occupation. If it is accepted that Evans slate is now wiped clean and he can return to his former profession, I fail to see why, if Jimmy Savile had lived and served his time, he could not return to mainstream television. The possibility is both appalling and unthinkable, as is the suggestion that those who would seek to prevent it were acting through 'mob rule'. Rape is often (and was in this case) a pre-meditated, deliberate act in which the perpertrator is fully aware that the consequences for the victim can, at least potentially, be absolutely devastating yet they still do it. It is the very nature of how heinous this crime is that has led to the reaction that has been expressed and, to me, that is entirely understandable. Edited December 23, 2014 by Halifaxtiger 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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