Mike.Butler Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 Jessica Ennis anyone? seems sheffield utd are rapidly running out of wriggle room... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruiser McHuge Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 Jessica Ennis anyone? seems sheffield utd are rapidly running out of wriggle room... Yes, she's said they have to remove her name from the Jessica Ennis stand if Evans signs.....but I suppose she's only doing that to further her career ! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 (edited) not quite true as 12 people did find him guil beyond a reasonable doubt can you explain "what sort of girl you need to be" to be able to persue a rape case, i thought anyone could, you obviously think the law does not apply to some girls. bit like evans telling the police "i am a footballer and i can do what i want" again evidence given in court I would say the word of a hard Drug user is unlikely to carry as much weight as say others in most peoples eyes . No one can say fore sure that she to drunk to say no in fact it's impossible to prove 100 %. so bearing that in mind and with one person found somehow not guilty of the same offence what is impossible if we take the line that the girl could not say no or defend herself in that hotel room I would say there is massive reasonable doubt . Edited November 13, 2014 by orion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 not exactly feminist is it - objectifying herself as a sex object for male gratification another example of her hypocrisy imo Does she have to be a feminist to have an opinion on rape or other problems in society?We have politicians and judges who make major decisions in our life who do worse things than appear in a magazine in their underwear.What century are we living in here???? 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 Not really ..they showed cctv of the women of the falling over etc during the night at take aways etc that what used to show she was not in control of what she was doing that includes going to back to a hotel room . So both taking advantage of a girl unable to agree to sex, in the eyes of the law, makes both males guilty of rape. Instead of trying to support Evans with his 'I am innocent mylord', you should be fighting to get his mate convicted of rape as well. Now that would be justice. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 So both taking advantage of a girl unable to agree to sex, in the eyes of the law, makes both males guilty of rape. Instead of trying to support Evans with his 'I am innocent mylord', you should be fighting to get his mate convicted of rape as well. Now that would be justice. I never said she was so out of it she could not say no ...the point was that they try to make out that was the case and as many have said in the media in the few days that makes it near enough impossible using that line to make one guilty and the other not . As someone on Sky news today the moment they found Mcdonald not guilty it meant they could not have believe she was out of her face hence meaning Evans must be not guilty as well . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 Yes, she's said they have to remove her name from the Jessica Ennis stand if Evans signs.....but I suppose she's only doing that to further her career ! Maybe they'll re-name it the "One Night Stand" instead when Evans comes back 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacques Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 A question to all of you, be honest here.... When you see the word " Rape" what do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 (edited) A question to all of you, be honest here.... When you see the word " Rape" what do you think? I'll answer. I always thought rape was grabbing someone and forcing them to have sex. I thought it meant physical violence. I think thats the stereotype, thats the person who I think we all agree should be locked away, once hes had his man parts removed with a rust knife. Rape can simply be having sex with someone who didn't give consent. It doesn't mean they wouldn't have given consent, just they didn't give it. Share a bed with a loved one and in the middle of the night you grab hold of a boob or a penis (hopefully not both!!) then thats sexual assault. Even if you have agreed before hand to do it, you were asleep and legally under the Sexual Offences Act 2003 75 (2) (d) you have broken the law. Where it gets a little difficult is it's only rape IF you reasonably believe they didn't consent. And this is where I think Ched Evans is being wronged. He says he didnt do anything wrong, now as the law states he has to believe he has done wrong, as soon as he says he doesn't think he did, he's not guilty. It's also impossible to EVER know what went on in that room unless you were one of the 3 people in there so how anyone can find someone guilty beyond reasonable doubt I don't know. Especially as the girl herself never complained to the police about being raped, the police told her she had been raped! Edited November 13, 2014 by SCB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacques Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 I'll answer. I always thought rape was grabbing someone and forcing them to have sex. I thought it meant physical violence. I think thats the stereotype, thats the person who I think we all agree should be locked away, once hes had his man parts removed with a rust knife. Rape can simply be having sex with someone who didn't give consent. It doesn't mean they wouldn't have given consent, just they didn't give it. Share a bed with a loved one and in the middle of the night you grab hold of a boob or a penis (hopefully not both!!) then thats sexual assault. Even if you have agreed before hand to do it, you were asleep and legally under the Sexual Offences Act 2003 75 (2) (d) you have broken the law. Where it gets a little difficult is it's only rape IF you reasonably believe they didn't consent. And this is where I think Ched Evans is being wronged. He says he didnt do anything wrong, now as the law states he has to believe he has done wrong, as soon as he says he doesn't think he did, he's not guilty. It's also impossible to EVER know what went on in that room unless you were one of the 3 people in there so how anyone can find someone guilty beyond reasonable doubt I don't know. Especially as the girl herself never complained to the police about being raped, the police told her she had been raped! The important bit I've highlighted, but thanks for the law lesson .. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 The important bit I've highlighted, but thanks for the law lesson .. lol You surely knew as soon as you saw I'd replied I'd not keep it simple But yeah, point is, as Judy Finnegan said and got slagged of for it, Ched Evans isn't the big nasty monster rapist you think of when you think, "rapist". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacques Posted November 14, 2014 Report Share Posted November 14, 2014 You surely knew as soon as you saw I'd replied I'd not keep it simple But yeah, point is, as Judy Finnegan said and got slagged of for it, Ched Evans isn't the big nasty monster rapist you think of when you think, "rapist". If only people knew the reality ..... But yes, it's the crime watch scenario, that most people have in their minds! Has the abuser of Charlie Webster ever been identified or convicted? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted November 14, 2014 Report Share Posted November 14, 2014 it will be a very ineresting situation if the judicial review finds in his favour. Evans comes out of this with no credit at all but he's been to jail. I think there's much self serving hysteria around this now and plenty of bandwagon jumping. And once again i refer to other footballers who have caused death and ruined families while drunk at the wheel. This is much more serious but i see no bandwagon jumpers there. Why is that do you suppose? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted November 14, 2014 Report Share Posted November 14, 2014 Neither Evans not the girl involved come out of this well. Difficult to have sympathy for either of them but as far as Cheerful Charlie is concerned there is nothing wrong with her exercising her right to protest if she feels strongly enough but the pictures of her in a lad's mag do sort of undermine her credibility as a moral crusader. Seriously? You honestly believe that because a woman poses for sexy photographs she is not in a position to condemn rape? I find that a very strange point of view. Do you feel, for example, that Richard Attenborough was not in a position to speak about human rights because he played a killer in films? My only knowledge on this is what I've read on here, but from what I can gather there were two blokes. One picked up a very drunk girl, took her to a hotel room, and gave her one. Very dubious behaviour to say the least, but not rape. The girl then passed out, is that correct? He then called up this footballer, who turns up, gives her one while she is unconscious, and sneaks out again. That's rape. Clearly. The grey area is that maybe she never actually said to him to stop or said "no", but in the first instance there was clearly a degree of approval given, but not in the second. As for making a stand against this, then I guess it's up to individuals and how they feel. Certainly if a guy does his time then in prison, for me, I don't see why he shouldn't be deprived of work. But being in a public position like this does make it a more difficult situation. I admire Charlie for taking a stand, though. Good for her. She's putting herself in the firing line of typical low level internet trolls so I hope she can handle them. Good to know that other people are also taking the same stance and she's not alone. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbt Posted November 14, 2014 Report Share Posted November 14, 2014 Good on you Charlie for having the bottle to make a stand on something you feel strongly about,and a well done to Jessica Ennis as well. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted November 14, 2014 Report Share Posted November 14, 2014 My only knowledge on this is what I've read on here, but from what I can gather there were two blokes. One picked up a very drunk girl, took her to a hotel room, and gave her one. Very dubious behaviour to say the least, but not rape. The girl then passed out, is that correct? He then called up this footballer, who turns up, gives her one while she is unconscious, and sneaks out again. That's rape. Clearly. Thats not what is alleged to have happened at all. She never claimed to be out of it or anything like that. In fact alcohol tests the following day suggest that she didn't have enough alcohol in her system to have been that drunk at the time of the offence. She went to the police the day after to report that she has lost her handbag (later found in a takeaway she was in the night before) so the police interviewed the people she was with the night before, McDonald and Evans. At this point the police decided she had been raped based on what they themselves had said. If they'd said nothing then who knows?! Now if the girl in question didn't know she'd be raped and needed the police to tell her she hardly strikes me as someone who is going to be damaged for life by the experience. Now quite how the police come to that conclusion is not really know and we have to come to our own conclusions. What we seem to have here is a crusade against people going out on a Friday and Saturday night on the pull, not rape. Somehow, rape has now started to encompass doing just that, it's undermines what rape really is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Ore Posted November 14, 2014 Report Share Posted November 14, 2014 Seriously? You honestly believe that because a woman poses for sexy photographs she is not in a position to condemn rape? I find that a very strange point of view. Do you feel, for example, that Richard Attenborough was not in a position to speak about human rights because he played a killer in films? I admire Charlie for taking a stand, though. Good for her. She's putting herself in the firing line of typical low level internet trolls so I hope she can handle them. Good to know that other people are also taking the same stance and she's not alone. Good on you Charlie for having the bottle to make a stand on something you feel strongly about,and a well done to Jessica Ennis as well. Well said both. The pity of this whole thread is that some, who for whatever irrational reasons, choose not to like Charlie will do anything to try to discredit her and it really sucks that such a serious matter is treated so flippantly with some trying to get brownie points at her expense. Dave Berry has been given some lip service here but Lindsey Graham, a highly successful Sheffield Businesswoman has also resigned her post, with even less reference on the forum. Why? Because she may have her millions but the general public have no idea who she is. Charlie and Jess as household names have been able to flag this serious issue up. As someone with a more than passing interest in the Blades I am proud of the stance taken by the 4 names. I am one of the 150,000 lesser names on the "petition" but nobody is going to take notice of me individually. To allege that there are a small number seeking to further themselves by speaking out is so inaccurate too. The number of people petitioning is probably far higher than the aggregate total of attendees al all speedway league fixtures in all 3 divisions in Britain over the past year compared with a few lone voices trying to discredit Charlie I found it incredible that one of the anti Charlie brigade questions why a woman is allowed in the pits in any case. Now we can see what the agenda is. She has been in the pits as a rider and arranged a training session for females to try out speedway. I feel that this alone gives her credit to be there as part of her job.. Another questions that the Lee Hughes case was worse. A bit like saying that Hitler was a far better man as he killed less people than Genghis Khan. I despise everything Lee Hughes but what should be questioned is why nothing was done in that case to the same degree rather than criticise the stance against Ched Evans. I have never been a victim of sexual assault but fortunately I was in the right place at the right time when an air stewardess from the USA was in the wrong place; as I heard her screams for help coming from a subway. Physically she was a mess as were her clothes and she had two mouths where the assailant had literally ripped her cheek open during the attack. It would have been no consolation to her that other attacks may have been worse but her "thank you" to me for coming to her help said far more about the potential impact on her than all these assumptions do . As a victim herself Charlie has far more first hand knowledge of the physical and mental scars such attacks leave than me seeing the poor girl I "rescued" in such a bad way. So; good on her for identifying herself to help others. And yes her former coach I believe was arrested for sexual offences. As for the comments about her flaunting herself; it is good to know that there are still those who keep the old tradition of taking a Kay's Catalogue and box of Kleenex with them into some locked room going . "Glamour" models appeal far more (other than in said catalogue ) to members of the same sex so hardly a lack of reason for them not to have opinions. They are used to sell and if someone looks good in a certain article of clothing others will be persuaded to buy. So yet another red herring here guys. I am not gay, although I know some posters are so may view matters differently, but if I think I need a new pair of underpants and I see a magazine with David Beckham wearing his designer boxers and on the next page Eric Pickles in a natty pair of big white baggies. I am a male looking at pics of men in their underwear with no sexual connotation at all but, although I look more like Brad Pitt, I know which of those I'd plump for when deciding to buy. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Turner Posted November 14, 2014 Report Share Posted November 14, 2014 Well said both. The pity of this whole thread is that some, who for whatever irrational reasons, choose not to like Charlie will do anything to try to discredit her and it really sucks that such a serious matter is treated so flippantly with some trying to get brownie points at her expense. Dave Berry has been given some lip service here but Lindsey Graham, a highly successful Sheffield Businesswoman has also resigned her post, with even less reference on the forum. Why? Because she may have her millions but the general public have no idea who she is. Charlie and Jess as household names have been able to flag this serious issue up. As someone with a more than passing interest in the Blades I am proud of the stance taken by the 4 names. I am one of the 150,000 lesser names on the "petition" but nobody is going to take notice of me individually. To allege that there are a small number seeking to further themselves by speaking out is so inaccurate too. The number of people petitioning is probably far higher than the aggregate total of attendees al all speedway league fixtures in all 3 divisions in Britain over the past year compared with a few lone voices trying to discredit Charlie I found it incredible that one of the anti Charlie brigade questions why a woman is allowed in the pits in any case. Now we can see what the agenda is. She has been in the pits as a rider and arranged a training session for females to try out speedway. I feel that this alone gives her credit to be there as part of her job.. Another questions that the Lee Hughes case was worse. A bit like saying that Hitler was a far better man as he killed less people than Genghis Khan. I despise everything Lee Hughes but what should be questioned is why nothing was done in that case to the same degree rather than criticise the stance against Ched Evans. I have never been a victim of sexual assault but fortunately I was in the right place at the right time when an air stewardess from the USA was in the wrong place; as I heard her screams for help coming from a subway. Physically she was a mess as were her clothes and she had two mouths where the assailant had literally ripped her cheek open during the attack. It would have been no consolation to her that other attacks may have been worse but her "thank you" to me for coming to her help said far more about the potential impact on her than all these assumptions do . As a victim herself Charlie has far more first hand knowledge of the physical and mental scars such attacks leave than me seeing the poor girl I "rescued" in such a bad way. So; good on her for identifying herself to help others. And yes her former coach I believe was arrested for sexual offences. As for the comments about her flaunting herself; it is good to know that there are still those who keep the old tradition of taking a Kay's Catalogue and box of Kleenex with them into some locked room going . "Glamour" models appeal far more (other than in said catalogue ) to members of the same sex so hardly a lack of reason for them not to have opinions. They are used to sell and if someone looks good in a certain article of clothing others will be persuaded to buy. So yet another red herring here guys. I am not gay, although I know some posters are so may view matters differently, but if I think I need a new pair of underpants and I see a magazine with David Beckham wearing his designer boxers and on the next page Eric Pickles in a natty pair of big white baggies. I am a male looking at pics of men in their underwear with no sexual connotation at all but, although I look more like Brad Pitt, I know which of those I'd plump for when deciding to buy. Nonsense. Rape is a serious matter, but like many others I don't consider this to be a clean cut case and it's not fair to attack him like Charlie has. Ched didn't go into a subway and attack a girl, did he? He was out drinking with a girl that came back to his hotel room. People like you are the real problem. You see the word "rape" and you assume this is a violent or aggressive forced rape, and that everybody else here is trying to say that's ok. That's not the case at all. The kind of rape you spoke of shouldn't be tolerated, and I don't think there is anybody here who would argue that Ched should play again, or even be allowed to keep his genitals if he were involved in a forced rape. Put yourself into his shoes and consider it from his prospective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wealdstone Posted November 14, 2014 Report Share Posted November 14, 2014 As far as I am aware he was sentenced to 5 years in prison, some seem to feel this also means being banned from pursuing his career. Has any body considered that he shows no remorse as he genuinely feels himself to be not guilty? Presumably a fast track review of the case must mean that others may feel the same way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackadder Posted November 14, 2014 Report Share Posted November 14, 2014 Now if the girl in question didn't know she'd been raped and needed the police to tell her she hardly strikes me as someone who is going to be damaged for life by the experience.I understand that the girl has had to leave her home because of Internet trolls, and will be paying the price for years to come.Whether it was rape or not, Evans has some disgusting habits and I can't understand his girlfriend's attitude at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.