Track Grading, To Much, To Little, Tractor Racing, Wrong Times & Rakers.......

[Shale Searcher]

You see this subject discussed on plenty of threads, usually it's derogatory, and accused of being an unwanted and lengthy side show... As a rough guide, it's only programmed after heats 4, 7, 10 & 14 these days... Is it to much? To little? At the wrong time? Takes up far to much time? When in reality, in the old days, well 1970's and 80's and probably before these times it was done after every race? So what's the fans thoughts? Is it like guests, a required evil....? How could it be done better? Or in a more timely manner.......? And what about the rakers? No longer required at most tracks to drag shale back over the racing line, where hopefully the aforementioned tractors graded it back into the track.. Would a return to a little and often policy of grading, rather than big track grades speed the process up? And the meeting speeded up as well?

Discuss......

Edited October 24, 2014 by Shale Searcher

[OveFundinFan]

I cant agree with the point you make, Shale Seacher, tha in the 70's and 80's tractor grading was done after every race. I was a Belle Vue regular and one of the main reasons I stopped going was because the track was not being graded. As the shale was shifted to the outside, the racing line followed, so much so you could see the track base on the inside sector of the track and virtually all riders were racing in the outer third of track and it was a bit like follow the leader. Every so often a rider would dive for the inside but it was a bit suicidal as there was no grip.

Shame really, Belle Vue was a wide track with different racing lines, with many not being able to be used to good effect. I recall the Golden helmet match races between Peter Craven and Ove Fundin where they were dicing round the white line just inches apart. Then again, I have seen some brilliant races where different parts of the track width was used. Thats how it should be.

So I am up for regular track grading, perhaps not after every race though.

[Ommer Mon]

Have to confess that I have often wonderd why the track rakers were dispensed with.

 

The tractors rolling round does seem to take large chunks out of the meeting and interrupts the flow.

 

The long gaps between some races is one of the reasons that my kids haven't fully got the speedway bug and if that is the same for others of their age then perhaps we have stumbled across one reason why so few teenages go regularly (at least that's my experience)

[OGT]

TBH I used to love to watch track grading.

 

Now I'm an ex tractor fan.

[Shale Searcher]

I cant agree with the point you make, Shale Seacher, tha in the 70's and 80's tractor grading was done after every race. I was a Belle Vue regular and one of the main reasons I stopped going was because the track was not being graded. As the shale was shifted to the outside, the racing line followed, so much so you could see the track base on the inside sector of the track and virtually all riders were racing in the outer third of track and it was a bit like follow the leader. Every so often a rider would dive for the inside but it was a bit suicidal as there was no grip.

Shame really, Belle Vue was a wide track with different racing lines, with many not being able to be used to good effect. I recall the Golden helmet match races between Peter Craven and Ove Fundin where they were dicing round the white line just inches apart. Then again, I have seen some brilliant races where different parts of the track width was used. Thats how it should be.

So I am up for regular track grading, perhaps not after every race though.

I was not making a point in favour of either!!! I agree with everything you say!

I have been told that modern engines cannot cope with loose shale on slick, and riders ask for bone hard inside lines, and only usable shale on the outside.. and that is from a reliable source.....

I cant agree with the point you make, Shale Seacher, tha in the 70's and 80's tractor grading was done after every race. I was a Belle Vue regular and one of the main reasons I stopped going was because the track was not being graded. As the shale was shifted to the outside, the racing line followed, so much so you could see the track base on the inside sector of the track and virtually all riders were racing in the outer third of track and it was a bit like follow the leader. Every so often a rider would dive for the inside but it was a bit suicidal as there was no grip.

Shame really, Belle Vue was a wide track with different racing lines, with many not being able to be used to good effect. I recall the Golden helmet match races between Peter Craven and Ove Fundin where they were dicing round the white line just inches apart. Then again, I have seen some brilliant races where different parts of the track width was used. Thats how it should be.

So I am up for regular track grading, perhaps not after every race though.

I was not making a point in favour of either!!! I agree with everything you say!

I have been told that modern engines cannot cope with loose shale on slick, and riders ask for bone hard inside lines, and only usable shale on the outside.. and that is from a reliable source.....

[LionsDen]

I used to attend Blackbird Road, amongst other places, and my recollection is that the old track rakers used to do their bit between the races, not actually hold them up! They'd be out doing the raking whilst riders were getting ready, being pushed off and riding to the start line. As a result, there was definitely a better continuity about speedway meetings back then.

That said, there must be a good reason why clubs prefer to use tractors these days so maybe a track man can come on and explain? Shale Searcher makes good points above regarding laydown engines needing slick tracks so maybe it's just that. It's detrimental though because these grading breaks don't go down well with the new, or even casual, spectator. And most especially the younger ones. Committed speedway fans do probably just about accept grading as a necessity - and an opportunity to visit the loo or the bar - but they're not the ones that need converting.

When I mentioned this subject in another thread the discussion was about where speedway has gone wrong and why it isn't attracting a larger following these days. Thousands of people came to Leicester in that first year they re-opened and way too many haven't become regulars when the expectation was that they would. One of the most often quoted reasons to me at the time was that they found too much of it a boring night out and not worthy of the money spent. 15 heats, lasting about a minute each, isn't a lot to see and the regular, sometimes quite lengthy spells of tractor grading make meetings drag on and on to the casual observer. They stop the flow of what they've paid money to come and see.

Edited October 24, 2014 by LionsDen

[Gemini]

 

 

That said, there must be a good reason why clubs prefer to use tractors these days so maybe a track man can come on and explain?

 

Now I am not a trackman as you have probably gathered but perhaps FTM will see this thread and comment. My guess would be to keep the expenses down. Free entry plus tea and biscuits in the interval for how many - about a dozen people ? whereas the tractor/man is at the track anyway and he can trundle round every 4 heats so just one cup of tea and a couple of custard creams for him. With the exception of Berwick as the last time I went (quite a few years ago) had at least 9 rakers on each bend.

[The White Knight]

 

Now I am not a trackman as you have probably gathered but perhaps FTM will see this thread and comment. My guess would be to keep the expenses down. Free entry plus tea and biscuits in the interval for how many - about a dozen people ? whereas the tractor/man is at the track anyway and he can trundle round every 4 heats so just one cup of tea and a couple of custard creams for him. With the exception of Berwick as the last time I went (quite a few years ago) had at least 9 rakers on each bend.

No Expense when I was a Raker - we did it for FREE. We also paid to get in - to try and keep our Track viable. Fat lot of good it did us. :sad:

Edited October 24, 2014 by The White Knight

[Gemini]

What not even a biscuit and cuppa at the interval? I think I'm right in saying Coventry's track staff were allowed free entry but that was a few years ago - it might be different now.

[dontforgetthefueltapsbruv]

I find it a bit strange when people moan abiut track grading.

With the natural breaks a lap or two by the tractor doesnt hold things up at all if the trackman is on the ball.

Yet many moan about slick tracks and poor entertainment but then also about the very thing that could improve that situation.

[Gemini]

I think we all accept track grading is necessary every few heats but what is irritating is when it has to take place shortly after the match has just started because the track hasn't been prepared properly beforehand. Unfortunately this has happened too often at Coventry this season and we are standing around watching endless laps of tractor racing rather than what we have paid to see.

[Phlipphlopp]

Another reason why track rakers were used pre airfences was to scape shale off the fence so riders actually knew where the fence was !

[Star Lady]

Maybe if there was some kind of distraction the tractors would be less noticeable.

 

If all that is going on is the same bland godawful music that passes for entertainment at tracks nowadays there is nothing to take your eyes and ears off the tractors. Even a mic man commentating on the tractor racing would be better than nothing. Interviews with riders/team managers/promoters....anything that actually adds to the entertainment would help.

 

I don't say it would solve it but might lessen the impact of tractors circling like vultures over a dying sport.

[Trees]

Perhaps if fans were told how important grading is it may help and yeah a good mic man could easily keep the fans entertained!

[Shale Searcher]

These rakers people haven't vanished, they just operate the red flags and change airbags now.. they have takes still, but just drag shale off the bottom of the air fences, and the kickboards going into the bends...

 

The loose shale no longer gets dragged back to the inside line anymore. Apparently, it's like putting micro-ball bearings over the inside of the track if you do, and riders then just skate over them and can't corner properly.. So why have tracks become like this? To much tractor time on them? The inside line nowadays is like concrete, it's rolled and rolled and its rock solid with perhaps a centimetre or two of compressed wet shale on that's lost after the first couple or three races.. except for the inner 2 feet, which is always soft and grippy, but mostly unusable except for the very top riders.....

Tracks need re thinking..

[Shale Searcher]

These rakers people haven't vanished, they just operate the red flags and change airbags now.. they have takes still, but just drag shale off the bottom of the air fences, and the kickboards going into the bends...

 

The loose shale no longer gets dragged back to the inside line anymore. Apparently, it's like putting micro-ball bearings over the inside of the track if you do, and riders then just skate over them and can't corner properly.. So why have tracks become like this? To much tractor time on them? The inside line nowadays is like concrete, it's rolled and rolled and its rock solid with perhaps a centimetre or two of compressed wet shale on that's lost after the first couple or three races.. except for the inner 2 feet, which is always soft and grippy, but mostly unusable except for the very top riders.....

Tracks need re thinking..

[Trees]

These rakers people haven't vanished, they just operate the red flags and change airbags now.. they have takes still, but just drag shale off the bottom of the air fences, and the kickboards going into the bends...

 

The loose shale no longer gets dragged back to the inside line anymore. Apparently, it's like putting micro-ball bearings over the inside of the track if you do, and riders then just skate over them and can't corner properly.. So why have tracks become like this? To much tractor time on them? The inside line nowadays is like concrete, it's rolled and rolled and its rock solid with perhaps a centimetre or two of compressed wet shale on that's lost after the first couple or three races.. except for the inner 2 feet, which is always soft and grippy, but mostly unusable except for the very top riders.....

Tracks need re thinking..

I should think it's because not much time is put into preparation of the tracks these days and they have hardly any material on them in the first place. I'm pretty sure nobody uses actual shale anymore either. Ask Buster .... Edited October 26, 2014 by Trees

[Daniel Smith]

One of the biggest differences today from years gone by is the shale content.

 

If the track isn't clay based then it becomes harder to keep the shale down low anyway.

 

Once the initial track prep has been shifted out wide and down to the base even after a track grade you get 1-2 races and is gone again from the inside. Even raking the content back to the inside is actually a pointless exercise.

 

Most tracks are using a more marble (rounded) type material that has a much less clay content. The old type shale used to be more flat and splint material which helped with grip during contact between tyre and base.

 

The only (none starting) solution would be to re-lay the track and pack it on the inside half way through a meeting.

 

Also, compared to years gone by the amount of material used has disappeared. To me, this is more down to cost rather than down to laydown motors.

 

I'm not having deep tracks couldn't be used with today's engines or silencers. Rider's would have to learn throttle control on the big tracks as well as the smaller tracks rather than keeping it twisted South for all 4 laps. There would be more racing lines also

 

Bring Back The Deep Track

[Shale Searcher]

One of the biggest differences today from years gone by is the shale content.

 

If the track isn't clay based then it becomes harder to keep the shale down low anyway.

 

Once the initial track prep has been shifted out wide and down to the base even after a track grade you get 1-2 races and is gone again from the inside. Even raking the content back to the inside is actually a pointless exercise.

 

Most tracks are using a more marble (rounded) type material that has a much less clay content. The old type shale used to be more flat and splint material which helped with grip during contact between tyre and base.

 

The only (none starting) solution would be to re-lay the track and pack it on the inside half way through a meeting.

 

Also, compared to years gone by the amount of material used has disappeared. To me, this is more down to cost rather than down to laydown motors.

 

I'm not having deep tracks couldn't be used with today's engines or silencers. Rider's would have to learn throttle control on the big tracks as well as the smaller tracks rather than keeping it twisted South for all 4 laps. There would be more racing lines also

 

Bring Back The Deep Track

At my local track, dirt gets tractored inwards, and is rolled simultaneously by a set of wheels towed behind the grader.. I think this works well, but I still think more dirt needs dragging back, it can get to about a foot deep at the kickboards on the turns, and once its there, it's out of the meeting....

You tend to get a lot of burmes that build up just fence side of mid track on corners now as well, which riders don't seem to like and asked to be graded out, these seem to form earlier and earlier in meetings nowadays as well..... Solutions?

[The White Knight]

These rakers people haven't vanished, they just operate the red flags and change airbags now.. they have takes still, but just drag shale off the bottom of the air fences, and the kickboards going into the bends...

 

The loose shale no longer gets dragged back to the inside line anymore. Apparently, it's like putting micro-ball bearings over the inside of the track if you do, and riders then just skate over them and can't corner properly.. So why have tracks become like this? To much tractor time on them? The inside line nowadays is like concrete, it's rolled and rolled and its rock solid with perhaps a centimetre or two of compressed wet shale on that's lost after the first couple or three races.. except for the inner 2 feet, which is always soft and grippy, but mostly unusable except for the very top riders.....

Tracks need re thinking..

Mostly 'Lay Down' Engines.

 

One of the biggest differences today from years gone by is the shale content.

 

If the track isn't clay based then it becomes harder to keep the shale down low anyway.

 

Once the initial track prep has been shifted out wide and down to the base even after a track grade you get 1-2 races and is gone again from the inside. Even raking the content back to the inside is actually a pointless exercise.

 

Most tracks are using a more marble (rounded) type material that has a much less clay content. The old type shale used to be more flat and splint material which helped with grip during contact between tyre and base.

 

The only (none starting) solution would be to re-lay the track and pack it on the inside half way through a meeting.

 

Also, compared to years gone by the amount of material used has disappeared. To me, this is more down to cost rather than down to laydown motors.

 

I'm not having deep tracks couldn't be used with today's engines or silencers. Rider's would have to learn throttle control on the big tracks as well as the smaller tracks rather than keeping it twisted South for all 4 laps. There would be more racing lines also

 

Bring Back The Deep Track

I'm afraid that I can't agree with you there screamer.