Ftd Reserves

[foreverblue]

 

Google 'NFL draft', have a read and perhaps you'll grasp the concept.

You shouldnt have protected riders then or you prevent the lower teams getting the best riders

[uk_martin]

I haven't gone through all of them, but Lewis Rose's age is definitely wrong. He's another one in the mid 20s.

 

http://www.speedwayresults.com/rider.php?name=Lewis&surname=Rose

[Bagpuss]

You shouldnt have protected riders then or you prevent the lower teams getting the best riders

 

Don't disagree with that, the fairest way would be to give everybody free choice. However as others have said once a team has had the luxury of protecting an asset they should go to the bottom of the list for category two picks, with the highest finishers at the very bottom.

[Aces51]

I can understand why teams can protect one asset, although I would prefer no protection but I certainly cannot understand why the rules were changed to allow protection of a rider who you chose in the draft last year. It means that a team finishing near the bottom last year and therefore getting an early pick in the draft, still gains from that this year, even if they finished near the top. The result of that, with the better riders available this year, is that next year nearly every tier one rider will be protected and the draft will be a nonsense.

 

As I and others have said, the serious concern this year is the ridiculous ranking of some riders. I doubt any sane fan would have ranked Worrall at number 2 and the like of Newman and Blackbird so far down the list. To take just one factor into account, the PL averages, is plainly wrong and has created a situation which virtually everyone can see is wrong.

[Crazy robin]

You mean they actually had the choice ?? Well there loss is our gain... Er we go again, more moans from the Anti Poole brigade...

 

I really feel for you as Poole speedway is your life, which is really sad as who cares about winning a "mickey mouse" now anyway.

If any Poole fan thinks Newman is the 6th best draft rider based on last season then you are more stupid than that muppet Coventry fan who constantly posts sh1te on here!

 

I thought Starman supported Poole not Coventry.

[MrMungo]

 

http://www.speedwayresults.com/rider.php?name=Lewis&surname=Rose

http://www.speedwaystar.net/Kings-Lynn-Young-Stars-t26/

[Daytripper]

 

One has to ask, in reality, why are the BSPA not looking at more teenagers and not so many people in their mid-20's, who let's face it, will never represent the country at international level. If they haven't made it yet they never will. Resources should be focussed at the much younger riders if Team GB will ever be able to compete effectively again.

Two reasons for that. Firstly, Poland has infinately more money and facilities to put into developing riders from a very young age and we can't compete with that, and secondly there are a number of ex-motocrossers in the draft list plus others like Richsrd Lawson who have switched sports and the idea seems to be to encourage more moto-crossers to switch by giving them a chance even when they are past the first flush of youth.

[E I Addio]

I can understand why teams can protect one asset, although I would prefer no protection but I certainly cannot understand why the rules were changed to allow protection of a rider who you chose in the draft last year. It means that a team finishing near the bottom last year and therefore getting an early pick in the draft, still gains from that this year, even if they finished near the top. The result of that, with the better riders available this year, is that next year nearly every tier one rider will be protected and the draft will be a nonsense.

.

Spot on. Garrity going back to Coventry seems to defy all logic.

[SCB]

Can someone please check to see if these dates of birth of the bright young things that will make up the FTR are correct, and if I've calculated their ages (as at 1st April 2015 - to pick a common date for all) correctly too please? Dates of birth sourced from www.speedwayresults.com

 

Blackbird L - 21/02/87 - 28

Lambert S - 21/02/89 - 26

Wright C - 26/10/88 - 26

Kerr L - 25/03/90 - 25

Auty - 09/09/90 - 24

Birks A - 19/10/90 - 24

Starke P - 18/11/90 - 24

Worrall S - 23/09/91 - 23

Newman K - 14/12/91 - 23

Rose L - 27/10/93 - 21

Sarjeant J - 16/11/93 - 21

Garrity J - 09/11/93 - 21

Jacobs J - 14/08/93 - 21

Nielsen S - 31/10/94 - 20

Bates J - 01/02/96 - 19

Ellis A - 21/03/96 - 19

 

If I'm right, we only have two teenagers (because Robert Lambert doesn't seem to count in the minds of the BSPA, does he?) - OK, three then, in the EL.

 

What's the DOB / Age cut off point for admission into the FIM World u21 Championships? How many of the GB riders will qualify?

Now compare the British riders with the bright young things in Poland:

 

Musielak T - 18/08/93 - 21

Wozniak S - 06/05/93 - 21

Pawlicki Pi - 30/11/94 - 20

Strzelec A - 15/03/94 - 20

Cyfer A - 21/05/95 - 19

Pieszczek K - 23/09/95 - 19

Przedpelski P - 23/06/95 - 19

Zmarzlik B - 12/04/95 - 19

Kaczmarek D - 02/06/97 - 17

 

I daren't start with the bright young things coming out of Denmark and Sweden.

 

One has to ask, in reality, why are the BSPA not looking at more teenagers and not so many people in their mid-20's, who let's face it, will never represent the country at international level. If they haven't made it yet they never will. Resources should be focussed at the much younger riders if Team GB will ever be able to compete effectively again.

You have to start somewhere. What do you want the BSPA to do? Make some 18 year old riders come out of nowhere? The draft is the first step, hopefully in 3 or 4 years time we'll have a few U21 riders thanks to the draft and will be able to compete with the Poles. I agree at the moment it's a joke but they are trying something now,lets hope it works.

[Woz01]

There's nothing wrong with the rules of the draft. It actually works quite well. The team who gets the best Group 1 rider (regardless of whether he was protected or picked) should get last choice of group 2. The team who gets the worst Group 1 rider (regardless of whether he was protected or picked) should get first choice of the 2nd pick.

 

The problems only occur when the ranking of the group1 riders is wrong, and somehow one of the best riders gets ranked as one of the worst riders.

Spot on. Also you need rankings if assets can ride for there club, it wouldn't be fair on Leicester who had first pick but in reality didn't as some were protected. Leicester got Blackbird who was halfway down the list therefore they got a decent draw 2nd time round. It's the seedings that were wrong not the actual rules of the draft.

[Vince]

Can someone please check to see if these dates of birth of the bright young things that will make up the FTR are correct, and if I've calculated their ages (as at 1st April 2015 - to pick a common date for all) correctly too please? Dates of birth sourced from www.speedwayresults.com

 

Blackbird L - 21/02/87 - 28

Lambert S - 21/02/89 - 26

Wright C - 26/10/88 - 26

Kerr L - 25/03/90 - 25

Auty - 09/09/90 - 24

Birks A - 19/10/90 - 24

Starke P - 18/11/90 - 24

Worrall S - 23/09/91 - 23

Newman K - 14/12/91 - 23

Rose L - 27/10/93 - 21

Sarjeant J - 16/11/93 - 21

Garrity J - 09/11/93 - 21

Jacobs J - 14/08/93 - 21

Nielsen S - 31/10/94 - 20

Bates J - 01/02/96 - 19

Ellis A - 21/03/96 - 19

 

If I'm right, we only have two teenagers (because Robert Lambert doesn't seem to count in the minds of the BSPA, does he?) - OK, three then, in the EL.

 

What's the DOB / Age cut off point for admission into the FIM World u21 Championships? How many of the GB riders will qualify?

Now compare the British riders with the bright young things in Poland:

 

Musielak T - 18/08/93 - 21

Wozniak S - 06/05/93 - 21

Pawlicki Pi - 30/11/94 - 20

Strzelec A - 15/03/94 - 20

Cyfer A - 21/05/95 - 19

Pieszczek K - 23/09/95 - 19

Przedpelski P - 23/06/95 - 19

Zmarzlik B - 12/04/95 - 19

Kaczmarek D - 02/06/97 - 17

 

I daren't start with the bright young things coming out of Denmark and Sweden.

 

One has to ask, in reality, why are the BSPA not looking at more teenagers and not so many people in their mid-20's, who let's face it, will never represent the country at international level. If they haven't made it yet they never will. Resources should be focussed at the much younger riders if Team GB will ever be able to compete effectively again.

Despite their younger age if you count hours on the bike you are likely to find that each of those Polish lads has more experience than any 2 of the fast track riders. Until you can offer our youngsters the same sort of practice and training facilities (can't see it ever happening) you just have to accept that they will develop later than their foreign counterparts.

[Falcon Hammer]

What a joke. I'm a sponsor of a young British rider and I've heard of two guys who have been dicked over in the draft today. Broken promises etc ...

 

One of them has been royally stuffed in terms of PL places and the guy I help is seriously considering giving up and I'll probably do the same

 

For the better of British speedway and young riders ???

 

What a load of bollocks.

Poor Rambo, was flying at Worky this season, found his mojo again. Should be able to find a PL club with his ave: just hope it's one he likes

[uk_martin]

http://www.speedwaystar.net/Kings-Lynn-Young-Stars-t26/

 

Fair enough. Original post corrected. Thanks for the info. The GB list now looks like this:

 

Blackbird L - 21/02/87 - 28

Lambert S - 21/02/89 - 26

Wright C - 26/10/88 - 26

Rose L - 05/09/89 - 25

Kerr L - 25/03/90 - 25

Auty - 09/09/90 - 24

Birks A - 19/10/90 - 24

Starke P - 18/11/90 - 24

Worrall S - 23/09/91 - 23

Newman K - 14/12/91 - 23

Sarjeant J - 16/11/93 - 21

Garrity J - 09/11/93 - 21

Jacobs J - 14/08/93 - 21

Nielsen S - 31/10/94 - 20

Bates J - 01/02/96 - 19

Ellis A - 21/03/96 - 19

 

Any idea why Robert Lambert isn't being given any assistance in his formative years? Don't tell me "he's too good"? Surely if Bartosz Zmarzlik, a GP winner, can be helped in his development by retaining a junior spot in Polish speedway, the British authorities can do something for one of the few brights hopes that we have for the long term in this country?

[T.N.T.]

Lambert has done what a few others have done like LORAN, Screen and Bridger by starting at the top and so has gone past that stage.

 

No doubt he could have dropped down to the PL but no fast track rider has a 5+ official average.

[Bagpuss]

Last year was his own choice to not be on the draft, perhaps he'd see it as a backward step to 'drop down' to being a reserve. And I expect the difference in points money is a factor too.

 

I think the term 'fast track draft' is a little misleading personally, calling it the 'British reserve system' would be more accurate. You've got a mixture of riders who could possibly make am impact internationally at some point and others who probably won't progress beyond PL reserve level, and the fact that its stopping foreign garbage clogging up reserve spots works for me. The system is much more balanced this year and hopefully it will develop every season so that eventually we have a pool of FTR's who are all full of potential.

 

Other things need to happen alongside that too, most importantly that riders like Clegg, Grieves, Morley etc start riding regularly in the PL, IMO the second division should have a draft of some kind too, even if its only one spot per team. We need to start taking our riders abroad for test matches too, experience in Europe instead of our pokey little tracks is vital.

 

Hopefully the category one riders can start to grab PL heatleader spots this year, they need to be beating the best in that league to go along with their EL experiences and I think the talent is there among them.

[500cc]

The concept of British reserves is excellent. Took years to get to a point where Brits (or British trained) riders are given guaranteed spots due to the BSPA's inability to understand EU legislation; not that I think they do now.

 

To continue working, these riders must progress through to the 1-5 in the future. But that must be done using guaranteed positions. It is legal, but as I say, I doubt the BSPA know that.

 

The fact the PL isn't integrated into this concept, tells me everything I need to know about British Speedway. It needs to operate with one clear vision from grass roots to the elite level. That doesn't mean each level has to operate to the same racing regulations, but where major initiatives are introduced it needs to be fully supported through the entire system. That doesn't necessarily mean PL reserves should be Fast Track, although it's the most obvious solution. It does mean that the initiative must be supported. As a starter that would have to be guaranteed British spots in the PL.

 

I have no problem the PL operating its own way, it's probably a good idea, but there are certain fixed initiatives that it should have to include. Without doing that any vision has no future. The EL is at 8 teams. No sign of further additional parties, but there is a risk of the numbers dropping (admittedly the two biggest risks having already dropped to the NL). There must be a reasonable risk that the EL can not continue as is in the future. Then what happens to the Fast Track initiative? Quite likely falls by the way side dur to no buy-in from the PL. That is no way to manage a vision. No successful business would operate that way.

[MattJ81]

 

The ideal solution would be to have A riders in the PL's 1-5, and the B riders in the reserves berths. Unfortunately there's no draft in the PL (again), so many of the places will be filled by the Covattis, Pavlovas, Dilgers, Barretts, etc meaning a lot of last year's draft reserves will go back to only riding in the NL making absolutely no progress at all.

 

This is a worry, just going from the riders I have seen a little more of both Greaves and Clegg seemed to gain so much from their EL experience as the season progressed. I would argue that Clegg would perhaps be a better choice for Leicester this season than Lambert but I can see that he isn't quite up to the standard of most of the other draft riders as yet being at least a couple of years younger than them.

Having said that with the probable points limit in the NL they both will be towards the top of the averages, and rightly so. It then becomes essential that they get regular chances in the PL to ensure they continue to develop against better riders. I do hope that they are given this chance

[Bagpuss]

Mungo is absolutely right, and that problem could be solved by not letting a foreign rider's average drop below his assessed starting figure.

[Bostonian]

Having thought about it all, I've got a slightly different view point from what I thought yesterday.

I still disagree about the fact the way tier 1 riders were graded, but looking at the bigger picture I'm just pleased to see all the reserve berths taking by british riders, who are obviously improving and trying to make their way in the sport.

The idea from the bspa is a good one, tweeked from last season to improve it, and I'm sure it will make for much more competitive races between these guys, against the second strings, and maybe even a blast against the heat leaders. Hats off to the bspa for finally trying something, because by god something needed to be done!

 

These steps are all in place to improve the standard of british riders, and considering some of the success we had from it last year (i.e Worrall, Garrity etc) then it can only be a good thing.

 

Now the dust has settled, and looking at it as a whole, each reserve pairing is a lot more solid this time and much more of a level playing field. I see that as a step forward!

[John Leslie]

Mungo is absolutely right, and that problem could be solved by not letting a foreign rider's average drop below his assessed starting figure.

I've said this for years....