SteveLyric2 Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 See the link in my post 327. This will take you to an interview with Neil Vacher which gives you a good idea of his thoughts for the FTD riders. I saw that 'summary' which was initially incorrect and has subsequently been updated. I also heard the Vatcher interview on Speedway Tavern. Any names mentioned by Vatcher in either Pool A or Pool B were subject to riders accepting the invitation to join the Fast track draft for 2015 - the deadline for which is this weekend. He also stated that there may be further 'tweeks' to the draft before Wednesday. So people are getting a little ahead of themselves at the moment - unless Vatcher has announced the list today and I've missed it!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.N.T. Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 We pretty much know who is in the lists but we don't know in which order the riders in Grade A are ranked and this will be the key to what teams get to pick in the second draw. Josh Auty appears to be #1 but after that the next six are pretty close but four of those are protected in Worrall, Garrity, Newman and Kerr. So the top three of the six remaining are Auty, Blackbird and Wright. Leicester, Wolves and Lakeside are the first to pick so its likely those three will be at those three teams. Leicester some think are going to go for Wright and this will give them a better pick in the second round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flagrag Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 Again a lot depends who Wright is planning on riding for in the Premier league as seems there has been some strong suggestions that he may be going back to Workington which if true that will rule him out,So looking more and more likely that they will have to pick Auty and hope that he can master the Leicester track. Oh the joys of trying to run on Saturday nights with doubling up and fast track riders Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted November 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 Again a lot depends who Wright is planning on riding for in the Premier league as seems there has been some strong suggestions that he may be going back to Workington which if true that will rule him out,So looking more and more likely that they will have to pick Auty and hope that he can master the Leicester track. Oh the joys of trying to run on Saturday nights with doubling up and fast track riders Auty is a decent enough rider that even around a track like Leicester he'll get the hang of it and score some OK points. Might even be a good move for him as it'll force him to gate - riding at a PL track like Scunthorpe where he can pick people off will never help him sort his gating out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junior fan Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 Personally i think you would be a fool to put your name forward to be in group 2. Potentually you could be having two races against 2 PL heat leaders , and one other reserve, and another one againt an EL rider. If you can beat the other number 7 you can come away with 3 points, hardly going to pay to maintain your equipment. The other number 7 will come away with 0 or possibly share the 3 points between themselves. Strung out races will be the norm. Financial suicide for the riders. Junior Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.N.T. Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 Riders usually have a minimum fee where they are assured of a set amount of money even if they dont score. Personally I think there are some riders in Grade B that are better or have more potential than some in Grade A. I do feel that the protect aspect does in a way spoil it for the lower teams as they can be stuck with just one good reserve. Take Leicester for example. They will get first pick of the Grade A riders but four of the ten (possibly the best four) but Josh Auty will be available to be picked and could be the #1 ranked draft rider. In Grade B there are some good young riders but Leicester would miss out on those as they would get last pick in the second draft. Which bodes the question, would they be better not picking Auty or Blackbird so they have a chance of Sarjeant, Rose, Jacobs or Starke ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pointsmeanplayoffs Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 Still don't see the point in grading riders. The clubs are graded, you don't need to grade the riders as well?!? If you choose to protect a rider, to me it doesn't matter what 'ranking' he is, you go to the bottom of the pile in the next round? If two teams both choose to protect a rider in Pot A, then they simply get bottom picks in Pot B with the highest finishing team in 2014 going last? It might make people think twice about protecting riders in Pot A...... Pretty exciting this draft malarkey! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g13webb Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 Still don't see the point in grading riders. The clubs are graded, you don't need to grade the riders as well?!? If you choose to protect a rider, to me it doesn't matter what 'ranking' he is, you go to the bottom of the pile in the next round? If two teams both choose to protect a rider in Pot A, then they simply get bottom picks in Pot B with the highest finishing team in 2014 going last? It might make people think twice about protecting riders in Pot A...... Pretty exciting this draft malarkey! That's too much like common sense. By grading the riders in Pot A will enable all sorts of deviations. I've seen lists on here where they have Newman in 5th and 6th position, just so they Poole have a better pick in Pot B. But we all know if Poole had to choice the best rider in pot A in would be Newman.....So we all assume Newman should be top or thereabouts. I don't agree with the draft idea because it cannot be done fairly. As been posted, the promoters sitting round a table and sorting it out, seems the most logical answer. But failing that, what PMPO said above, seems the next best idea........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted November 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 That's too much like common sense. By grading the riders in Pot A will enable all sorts of deviations. I've seen lists on here where they have Newman in 5th and 6th position, just so they Poole have a better pick in Pot B. But we all know if Poole had to choice the best rider in pot A in would be Newman.....So we all assume Newman should be top or thereabouts. I don't agree with the draft idea because it cannot be done fairly. As been posted, the promoters sitting round a table and sorting it out, seems the most logical answer. But failing that, what PMPO said above, seems the next best idea........ Why would Newman be top? Last season EL averages suggest Blackbird, Kerr, Newman, Garrity and then Worrall. Throw in PL average too as the draft is meant to take into account all meeting and you could see Worrall and Kerr moved up moved up and blackbird possibly down a little. So PL average says Worrall, Kerr, Garrity, Newman, Blackbird. So merge the two in some way and actually, Newman ends up quite low, as does Garrity. Throw in Auty who by PL is 3rd but behind Worrall who is 5th in the EL but had a bad season in 2014 and in reality is the best of the bunch so should be #1. Personally, I'd put a boas on EL averages but use PL too to get Auty, Blackbird, Kerr, Worrall, Garrity, Newman - possibly swapping Blackbird and Kerr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g13webb Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 Why would Newman be top? Last season EL averages suggest Blackbird, Kerr, Newman, Garrity and then Worrall. Throw in PL average too as the draft is meant to take into account all meeting and you could see Worrall and Kerr moved up moved up and blackbird possibly down a little. So PL average says Worrall, Kerr, Garrity, Newman, Blackbird. So merge the two in some way and actually, Newman ends up quite low, as does Garrity. Throw in Auty who by PL is 3rd but behind Worrall who is 5th in the EL but had a bad season in 2014 and in reality is the best of the bunch so should be #1. Personally, I'd put a boas on EL averages but use PL too to get Auty, Blackbird, Kerr, Worrall, Garrity, Newman - possibly swapping Blackbird and Kerr. We all know that the averages can mean as much or as little as you want them to mean. Seeing Newman riding at the end of the year riding, he was FAR superior on the track than any of the names you have mentioned. I think he won his races against Kerr ended up 8-2 and Garrity 6-2 . His form alone enabled Poole to have just one decent FTR and was very instrumental of their success last year. So please don't pretend he is anything else, other than the top rider...... regardless of what his aver was... My unbiased positions would be Newman, Blackbird, Kerr, Garrity then Worrall. But like, we all have opinions and no doubt they all differ..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 So the list of FTD riders is not yet confirmed as some have clearly not yet responded!!!! British Speedway @SpeedwayGB · 3h 3 hours ago A finalised list will be published prior to the draft once all riders have confirmed their availability for the 2015 system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Countershaftcounter Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 I've heard rumours of at least 2 "protected" riders who want to change tracks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.N.T. Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 Is there any truth in the rumours seven of the Grade A riders have asked to be protected from Leicester !! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted November 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 (edited) We all know that the averages can mean as much or as little as you want them to mean. Seeing Newman riding at the end of the year riding, he was FAR superior on the track than any of the names you have mentioned. I think he won his races against Kerr ended up 8-2 and Garrity 6-2 . His form alone enabled Poole to have just one decent FTR and was very instrumental of their success last year. So please don't pretend he is anything else, other than the top rider...... regardless of what his aver was... My unbiased positions would be Newman, Blackbird, Kerr, Garrity then Worrall. But like, we all have opinions and no doubt they all differ..... So you use Newmans end of season figures to suggest he should be ahead of others but ignore that at the end of the season Worrall was better than most of them and put him 5th. Speedway as a sport uses averages, it uses season long averages and not averages over a 6 week period. The draft should do pretty much the same IMO. Anyway, form in their last 10 meetings (worth noting I am missing about half a dozen EL meetings and a dozen PL meetings) Jason Garrity 9.58 (8.84) Kyle Newman 9.36 (8.51) Lewis Blackbird 8.92 (8.17) Steve Worrall 7.83 (6.98) Lewis Kerr 7.48 (6.52) PL Kyle Newman 8.92 (8.21) Lewis Kerr 8.50 (7.70) Jason Garrity 8.07 (7.69) Lewis Blackbird 8.13 (7.25) Steve Worrall 7.73 (7.07) Them stats do strengthen your argument a fair bit though Edited November 24, 2014 by SCB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 (edited) I've heard rumours of at least 2 "protected" riders who want to change tracks I've heard a rumour of at least two 'protected' riders who would not agree to being on the list unless they could definitely ride for their own track!! Edited November 24, 2014 by Skidder1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pointsmeanplayoffs Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 So you use Newmans end of season figures to suggest he should be ahead of others but ignore that at the end of the season Worrall was better than most of them and put him 5th. Speedway as a sport uses averages, it uses season long averages and not averages over a 6 week period. The draft should do pretty much the same IMO. Anyway, form in their last 10 meetings (worth noting I am missing about half a dozen EL meetings and a dozen PL meetings) Jason Garrity 9.58 (8.84) Kyle Newman 9.36 (8.51) Lewis Blackbird 8.92 (8.17) Steve Worrall 7.83 (6.98) Lewis Kerr 7.48 (6.52) PL Kyle Newman 8.92 (8.21) Lewis Kerr 8.50 (7.70) Jason Garrity 8.07 (7.69) Lewis Blackbird 8.13 (7.25) Steve Worrall 7.73 (7.07) Them stats do strengthen your argument a fair bit though The fact that there is so much debate on which FTD is best, what set of averages to use etc etc proves how subjective any ranking decision will be so what's the point!?!? Let the clubs come up with their method of ranking the riders and let them make their own decisions. That's all part of the fun/skill/luck of the draft. ONLY the order in which the clubs pick riders need ranking, not the riders providing any protection decisions (no matter who you decide to protect) results in the team going to the bottom of the pile in the next round as I've said before. We sure can make a simple process very complicated in Speedway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brewer Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 I dont understand the need for ranking at this point. As I see teams with assets will name and protect them to start with in either category and then as I see leics commence with cat 1 pick from who has not been protected. And then the cat 2 draft will start again rankng has no relevance. And same goes for guests it has been said that any cat 1 rider can guest for any other cat 1 unlike last seasonwhen it was anyone above Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagpuss Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 There has to be some kind of ranking of the category 1's to determine an order of selection of the category 2's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrow boy Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 (edited) So you use Newmans end of season figures to suggest he should be ahead of others but ignore that at the end of the season Worrall was better than most of them and put him 5th. Speedway as a sport uses averages, it uses season long averages and not averages over a 6 week period. The draft should do pretty much the same IMO. Anyway, form in their last 10 meetings (worth noting I am missing about half a dozen EL meetings and a dozen PL meetings) Jason Garrity 9.58 (8.84) Kyle Newman 9.36 (8.51) Lewis Blackbird 8.92 (8.17) Steve Worrall 7.83 (6.98) Lewis Kerr 7.48 (6.52) PL Kyle Newman 8.92 (8.21) Lewis Kerr 8.50 (7.70) Jason Garrity 8.07 (7.69) Lewis Blackbird 8.13 (7.25) Steve Worrall 7.73 (7.07) For what it's worth and I know it is nothing like being official my top 10 FTRs based on their most recent 10 matches were: 01-Lewis Blackbird 02-Kyle Newman 03-Jason Garrity 04-Steve Worrall 05-Lewis Kerr 06-James Sarjeant 07-Stefan Neilsen 08-Paul Starke 09-Lewis Rose 10-Joe Jacobs Edited November 24, 2014 by barrow boy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brewer Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 Surely the order of pick is down to the teams ranking 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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