BWitcher Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 I agree, Im missing something! Poole should have got first pick of the Tier two riders because rhey finished top of the league so why did Wolves get first pick in Tier 2??? They got last pick in Tier 1 but decided to protect a rider so they lost that pick (Gained from it i agree but that IMO was fair) The 2nd round picks are determined by the rider you pick in the first round. You take the highest ranked rider in the first, you have last pick in the 2nd. Therefore by Newman and Blackbird being ranked so low, the teams who picked them (or indeed protected) gained in the 2nd round. They shouldn't have been so low. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC2 Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 (edited) I agree, Im missing something! Poole should have got first pick of the Tier two riders because rhey finished top of the league so why did Wolves get first pick in Tier 2??? They got last pick in Tier 1 but decided to protect a rider so they lost that pick (Gained from it i agree but that IMO was fair) A picking order by league position alone is fair only if there are no protected riders. Once you introduce a protection racket it is necessary to grade the first tier riders & then have second tier picks in reverse order of that rather than league position. Quite how the second tier picks started with Wolves, then Poole is a complete farce! Edited November 26, 2014 by DC2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMungo Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 My observations..... 1. Why order them by PL average? Surely EL average was fairer, they all had one except Auty (who could have been slotted in 1st or 3rd) and Wright who I would have been kind to and slotted in behind Garrity and Newman due to lack of EL experience. Birks, Roynon and Boxall would have been done by PL average then. 2. Why didn't Leicester protect Bates? Then pick Lambert? 3. Why didnt Wolves pick Starke? 4. I may have had a moan but I'm not unhappy, there not a lot between many of the riders tbf. Re: 1. If they did that they would be open to all sorts of criticism regarding subjectivity. At least this way they were graded based on fact, ie, he is placed there because his PL average is higher than Bloggs', etc. You can always spin the facts (large % of time spent at reserve, HTA, etc) but facts are still facts. Throw in a "we placed him there because we think he is better" is just going to open a giant can of worms, especially if the end result means certain teams, or promoters, are able to benefit from the aforementioned choices. Re: Wolves and Bates. I can only assume Proctor is going to be back there as he and Bates are close. Proctor has helped him a few times which has a positive impact on Bates' results. It also enables Starke to go to Poole, where Ford is close to Garry May, his Somerset team manager. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunty Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 You clearly are missing the point. The fact they are ranked lower means the team that picks them has a higher pick in the 2nd round. Who the riders or the clubs! If its the clubs then they lower ranked clubs had higher picks in the first round! Yes some clubs still picked before them by protecting riders fair enough but that was the case for everyone! Swindon I agree lost out but if they had assets like Worrall then they wouldnt as they would have been able to pick him like belle vue! You have to look past the Elite Draft to condider bringing young riders through in the sport and some clubs are taking more of a stance than others! Coventry and Kings Lynn with NL clubs may have the upper hand in years to come if they convice to sign riders as assets when they start speedway! Belle vue have the acadmey up there and alot of assets get signed through that! You have to look at the bigger picture! Also Poole shouldnt be punished for winning the league and hence why teams are allowed to proctect one rider each! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMungo Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 A picking order by league position alone is fair only if there are no protected riders. Once you introduce a protection racket it is necessary to grade the first tier riders & then have second tier picks in reverse order of that rather than league position. Quite how the second tier picks started with Wolves, then Poole is a complete farce! The 2nd round of picks started with Lakeside as they picked Birks, and it just so happens they went with their asset. I agree it would have been fairer to have no protected riders at all, but then you get complaints that having assets is useless. It's the sort of system where you simply just can not please everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunty Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 The 2nd round picks are determined by the rider you pick in the first round. You take the highest ranked rider in the first, you have last pick in the 2nd. Therefore by Newman and Blackbird being ranked so low, the teams who picked them (or indeed protected) gained in the 2nd round. They shouldn't have been so low. Oh! So it wasnt by league order in the second pick! Thats unfair! See I didnt know that, ive missed a big chunck of information which again was not clearly stated before the event today by the BSPA! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 The Fast track scheme is good in a way, but it would be nice to think clubs like King,s Lynn could of used Kerr/Rose again.I like continuity in teams where fans can relate to there old favourites.Wont moan though as it is great that Rose is on board at Swindon. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC2 Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 The 2nd round of picks started with Lakeside as they picked Birks, and it just so happens they went with their asset. I agree it would have been fairer to have no protected riders at all, but then you get complaints that having assets is useless. It's the sort of system where you simply just can not please everyone. OK, I can see now that the grade A riders were ranked by PL average, which at least is objective, if not accurate. Vatcher may have wanted to temper the PL averages by the actual 2014 EL draft averages but was probably prevented from making any sort of fair assessment! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dump that clutch Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 You clearly are missing the point. The fact they are ranked lower means the team that picks them has a higher pick in the 2nd round. The 2nd round picks are determined by the rider you pick in the first round. You take the highest ranked rider in the first, you have last pick in the 2nd. Therefore by Newman and Blackbird being ranked so low, the teams who picked them (or indeed protected) gained in the 2nd round. They shouldn't have been so low. so how the hell was Newman & Blackbird ranked lower than Charles Wright.... complete and utter farce.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greyhoundp Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 Who the riders or the clubs! If its the clubs then they lower ranked clubs had higher picks in the first round! Yes some clubs still picked before them by protecting riders fair enough but that was the case for everyone! Swindon I agree lost out but if they had assets like Worrall then they wouldnt as they would have been able to pick him like belle vue! You have to look past the Elite Draft to condider bringing young riders through in the sport and some clubs are taking more of a stance than others! Coventry and Kings Lynn with NL clubs may have the upper hand in years to come if they convice to sign riders as assets when they start speedway! Belle vue have the acadmey up there and alot of assets get signed through that! You have to look at the bigger picture! Also Poole shouldnt be punished for winning the league and hence why teams are allowed to proctect one rider each! Yeah the bigger picture was KL came runners up to Poole in the 2014 Play Offs. Poole had 2nd pick of Tier 2, KL had last pick now i dont care what anyone says thats WRONG and if you cant see it go to Specsavers.. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedball Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 Re: 1. If they did that they would be open to all sorts of criticism regarding subjectivity. At least this way they were graded based on fact, ie, he is placed there because his PL average is higher than Bloggs', etc. You can always spin the facts (large % of time spent at reserve, HTA, etc) but facts are still facts. Throw in a "we placed him there because we think he is better" is just going to open a giant can of worms, especially if the end result means certain teams, or promoters, are able to benefit from the aforementioned choices. I totally understand that. But surely if it's an Elite League draft, their Elite League form is the most relevant. It's like saying we'll rank them by shoe size and then using their inside leg measurement as the deciding factor. Might be a good indicator but not the most relevant. And as for Kyle Newman being ranked 6th on the list 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC2 Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 so how the hell was Newman & Blackbird ranked lower than Charles Wright.... complete and utter farce.... By PL average. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz01 Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 But i dont and i did?? I saw all the tweets including the ones where the clubs twitter names where used first Well that's strange because my twitter and others doesn't work like that. Seen a few tweets complaining that they were putting clubs twitter at beginning of tweets so therefore missing who was picked. Yeah the bigger picture was KL came runners up to Poole in the 2014 Play Offs. Poole had 2nd pick of Tier 2, KL had last pick now i dont care what anyone says thats WRONG and if you cant see it go to Specsavers.. You shouldn't of picked Kerr if you didn't want last pick on the 2nd draft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMungo Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 I totally understand that. But surely if it's an Elite League draft, their Elite League form is the most relevant. It's like saying we'll rank them by shoe size and then using their inside leg measurement as the deciding factor. Might be a good indicator but not the most relevant. And as for Kyle Newman being ranked 6th on the list If all the riders had been involved in last year's EL, then I'd be hopeful that would have been the case. But they weren't, so you had the nuisance of where to place Auty, Birks, Roynon, etc. Shoe size would be interesting, but everyone knows men lie about sizes! The other option would be a completly random draw. Stick all the names in the hat and see what happens! Could've been interesting.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted November 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 And how did a twitter thing called @speedwayinside know the draft riders on monday? Because he made his account private. Then tweeted every rider signing for every club. Then after the draft deleted the incorrect predictions and then made the account public. Theres no magic or inside knowledge needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 And as for Kyle Newman being ranked 6th on the list Odd rankings. However hard to `grade` riders known for EL performance from this season to riders with proven PL (and EL) experience that were added to the draw this time around. My observations..... 1. Why order them by PL average? Surely EL average was fairer, they all had one except Auty I agree. The others have some EL experience to use in comparison. What a joke. Wolves get top rider from last year then get first pick of tier 2 rider. Why is it done by PL average when they all have EL average from last year? Not so sure. No team SHOULD get both picks first. However so long as the criteria for selecting is clear then it shouldnt be too much of a problem. It isn't like Wolves picked the best 2 from both lists - i wonder who got them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josietoms Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 I was all for this last season and thought it did ok but this year I'm not so sure. How can Newman/blackbird to name 2 be in the draft system still. They were scoring points for fun and will do again. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted November 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 So if they're ranking draft riders by PL average, whats to stop an EL promoter paying his draft rider to drop a few PL points at the end of the season when he noticed that he could drop a few places in the draft? If Garrity had drop about 10 points in the last few months he could have dropped below Newman, Wright and Blackbird. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 Oh! So it wasnt by league order in the second pick! Thats unfair! See I didnt know that, ive missed a big chunck of information which again was not clearly stated before the event today by the BSPA! Fair play.. I was beginning to question your sanity! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liam Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 (edited) I think it looks competitive and there should be some good racing between them all. Iam happy with Birks and Ellis. Edited November 26, 2014 by liam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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