SCB Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 (edited) So the season over and most people have had their say. I think generally the draft was a success. One issue is that the reserve have too much importance in a meeting, so maybe the answer is to remove heat 9. Reserves get the 3 rides each. I'm sure it used to be the case that reserves only got 3 rides anyway, and in probably 80% of meetings 1 reserve only got 3 rides anyway. It means rather than reserve scoring 16 points they can only get 10 points between them unless they beat second strings. To make up for the lost heat, heat 15 can be top 2 scorers and heat 14 can be any 2 other riders nominated. Edited October 21, 2014 by SCB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon.c Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 To be honest I think that most teams seem to have had 1 good fast track rider while the other is way out of their depth which cannot be good for their confidence. Maybe it would be worth considering 1 Fast track rider per Elite Team so that the more advanced gain the knowledge and confidence to go further? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloves Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 Apparently the proposal for next season for the Elite League team building for next year is as follows: 1 FTR from a new listing that doesn't not include Top 10 from 2014. (Selection process tbc) One British rider per team who was a FTR in 2014 but is now considered to have progressed. They will be given a 3 point average but this will now be able to change depending on actual averages. Five other riders with a slightly increased combined points limit of 34 points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Panda Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 It seemed to work for some but not for others............. Some were more than good enough to hold down a reserve berth anyway and some were way out of their depth........... How does it move forward??????? I like Gloves idea but to be honest I can't see it happening........... RP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve0 Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 Apparently the proposal for next season for the Elite League team building for next year is as follows: 1 FTR from a new listing that doesn't not include Top 10 from 2014. (Selection process tbc) One British rider per team who was a FTR in 2014 but is now considered to have progressed. They will be given a 3 point average but this will now be able to change depending on actual averages. Five other riders with a slightly increased combined points limit of 34 points. Starting on a 3 point average - that's surely a joke! Surely they should be in the same boat as Birks, Auty etc and use their converted PL average ie recognising their current demonstrated ability rather than on a false average like we currently have with foreign assessed averages. Will be interesting to see what is decided and what steps they will take to address the VFM aspect rather than the watering down FTR! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uk_martin Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 Where do the "Class of 2014" go in 2015? How many will go into the EL 1-5's? Will any be retained for the draft of 2015 & get another chance? Was there a plan a year ago about what happens now or will new rules be made up as they go along? I expect this actually to be a silly question - BSPA and forward planning and all that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted October 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 Where do the "Class of 2014" go in 2015? How many will go into the EL 1-5's? Will any be retained for the draft of 2015 & get another chance? Was there a plan a year ago about what happens now or will new rules be made up as they go along? I expect this actually to be a silly question - BSPA and forward planning and all that. They'll have given this kind of thing no thought. Or how 80% of EL riders have ended on an average between 6 and 7 - what an unpredictable shock - well, apart from to those of us who predicted this in December! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 Ftr could have been a good idea but the moment people were able to used there own assets giving certain teams a massive advantage over others and self interest took over it all went down the drain . Next years rules will yet again will not be for the good of the sport they will be to suit certain teams . In a fair world we would have a lot stronger draft system with the likes of Birks etc rather than Payne etc with the bottom team getting the first pick and the last and so on . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny the spud Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 No assets, open season with converted PL averages Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uk_martin Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 How different to Poland where a promising junior rider can keep a reserve slot in a team until the season after he's 21. Such a simple rule to have here too, until you see how many of our National League double-uppers are already now older than Poland's Juniors. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy robin Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 No rider who has ever been in a top 5 of a Premier Lge side should be allowed for starters. Robert Lambert showed it could be done by not being a reserve & far more experienced riders were allowed to manipulate the final league table. For all that's said & done until the promotors stick together then nothing will change & more fans will be lost to the sport than fans gained. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted October 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 No rider who has ever been in a top 5 of a Premier Lge side should be allowed for starters.The issue with that is Lewis rose average 4.2 this season and rode in the 1-5 in his first season but in the past we've seen 5 and 6 point men in reserve. As long as we have an agreed criteria and stick to it for a few tears it shouldn't matter. If prefer to see Roynon, Auty and Birks than Compton, Smart, Lambert(Simon) and Halsey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFCB Wildcat Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 I don't see a problem with clubs using their own assets as long as they have invested in their development and by that I don't mean just financially. If clubs like Coventry, Kings Lynn & Leicester are prepared to run NL sides then I believe they should have first pick on their own riders. Just owning a riders contract is completely different and I agree that this should not be considered for the pick as it would just favour the wealthier clubs. I would like to see a compulsory youth policy introduced to make clubs responsible for developing the next generation of riders. I know that there are clubs that do a lot of good work in training youngsters and surely it's only fair that they should reap the rewards for their efforts. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy robin Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 The issue with that is Lewis rose average 4.2 this season and rode in the 1-5 in his first season but in the past we've seen 5 and 6 point men in reserve. As long as we have an agreed criteria and stick to it for a few tears it shouldn't matter. If prefer to see Roynon, Auty and Birks than Compton, Smart, Lambert(Simon) and Halsey. Fair comments & guess it will just stay above the average of a rider who is wanted by a certain team again then just like last year. At least the old system was how teams wanted to leave enough points for their reserves & not bent like last season. Never mind the sport is dying on it's backside & losing fans all the time anyway!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uk_martin Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 I would like to see a compulsory youth policy introduced to make clubs responsible for developing the next generation of riders. I know that there are clubs that do a lot of good work in training youngsters and surely it's only fair that they should reap the rewards for their efforts. Were Polish rules to apply, then someone like Robert Lambert could fill one of Kings Lynn's reserve spots continuously probalby for the next 4-5 years, whatever his actual average is. Is that unfair? Gorzow are benefiting from their investment and faith in Bartosz Zmarzlik as Falubaz Zielona Gora did for the years just gone before Patryck Dudek got too old to be a reserve. Other Polish teams are cultivating their youngsters to keep up with the Stal Gorzow's. Just look at Pawel Przedpelski at Torun, Tobiasz Musielak and Piotr Pawlicki at Leszno, (the list can go on a while yet) When the FTR system is reviewed, I hope that Robert Lambert can get a spell at reserve. His is a far more compelling case for getting the support of the authorities than the ones that got Benji Compton Smart, Halsey etc their FTR slots. Kings Lynn should also be rewarded by having a potent reserve at their disposal for the faith that they have placed in him. If that's unfair on other teams, well, then let them get a rising star of their own who they can keep at reserve for a few years...and if each team got just one such potential gem, then who knows, in a few years time we might have the makings of a decent Team GB...maybe. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 Like your reasoning UK martin, for completely selfish reasons I'd like us to be able to keep all our local boys so yeah be allowed to have either Robert or Lewis K at reserve. I was thinking that the EL could carry on with one FTR at number 7 but with one of the many exceptional 2014 FTRs to be able to either stay at 6 or in the team proper together with some of the other good Brits who missed out on FTR berths this season but with their places protected. It would be good for them to be able to strive to get in the team proper and take more rides if at reserve for starters. We'll see eh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 Like your reasoning UK martin, for completely selfish reasons I'd like us to be able to keep all our local boys so yeah be allowed to have either Robert or Lewis K at reserve. I was thinking that the EL could carry on with one FTR at number 7 but with one of the many exceptional 2014 FTRs to be able to either stay at 6 or in the team proper together with some of the other good Brits who missed out on FTR berths this season but with their places protected. It would be good for them to be able to strive to get in the team proper and take more rides if at reserve for starters. We'll see eh! That seems a great idea,i personally hope the FT sceme goes to the PL i dont think there are anough lads good anough to go around for the EL.English lads who are roughly at the same level to all get a team place,my wish is for teams to keep roughly the same core of the team with hopefully Lynn being able to track Kerr,Rose at reserve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben91 Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 The problem is the FTR riders that have done so well are having 2 NL standard heats then coming up against second strings such as Palm Toft in their other rides. They're not doing as well as people make out. Robert Lambert has done alright yes, but he still has his fair share of heats against NL standard opponents to help inflate his average. The likes of Simon Lambert and Benji Compton have been around longer than Auty and Birks and are nowhere near as good yet they're the ones being "fast tracked" that beggars belief really. The race format has resulted in unrealistic averages as SCB has pointed out. The fast track draft should have been implemented in the PL and another draft implemented in the EL with riders such as Roynon, Auty, Birks etc also encompassing riders such as Richie Worrall and Kyle Howarth who have raced in 1-5's this year. The race format could have remained the same as it is in the PL and NL and the Elite League would have been stronger for it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 Were Polish rules to apply, then someone like Robert Lambert could fill one of Kings Lynn's reserve spots continuously probalby for the next 4-5 years, whatever his actual average is. Is that unfair? Gorzow are benefiting from their investment and faith in Bartosz Zmarzlik as Falubaz Zielona Gora did for the years just gone before Patryck Dudek got too old to be a reserve. Other Polish teams are cultivating their youngsters to keep up with the Stal Gorzow's. Just look at Pawel Przedpelski at Torun, Tobiasz Musielak and Piotr Pawlicki at Leszno, (the list can go on a while yet) When the FTR system is reviewed, I hope that Robert Lambert can get a spell at reserve. His is a far more compelling case for getting the support of the authorities than the ones that got Benji Compton Smart, Halsey etc their FTR slots. Kings Lynn should also be rewarded by having a potent reserve at their disposal for the faith that they have placed in him. If that's unfair on other teams, well, then let them get a rising star of their own who they can keep at reserve for a few years...and if each team got just one such potential gem, then who knows, in a few years time we might have the makings of a decent Team GB...maybe. Like that idea too. However for it to work fairly it needs all EL teams to start investing in British youth. The likes of the Stars should have the benefit of Lambert, Rose, Kerr with at least 1 or 2 of them having secured places. Why should a few teams invest in the future and then be forced to allow those riders go to another club for a few seasons who have done diddly squat in that riders future? Maybe in a few seasons time it may work a little fairer, but Poland have a lot of things right - protecting their future is one of them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouch Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 While there's money, vans, bikes and holidays luring promising youngsters away then you're going to have a problem with promotions developing riders, even knocking junior teams on the head in some cases. With regards to FTR for next year then any of them with a higher average than Steve Worrall will be excluded from the system as now The Aces have signed him removing him from the draft will be the first item on the agenda. Sure it may adversely impact some other riders but it's tough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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