SCB Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 “We would also be in support of clubs receiving a facility of guests or rider-replacement if needed at the start of the season, especially as it is unclear exactly when the matter will be resolved.” Good statment until that line. If you can't get the riders then tough $hit. Use a 3 point junior as the rules state! Or what is the stop Swindon "signing" one of the Lagutas knowing they won't get a work permit and then having a guest for an 8.00 rider all season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz01 Posted January 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 (edited) Good statment until that line. If you can't get the riders then tough $hit. Use a 3 point junior as the rules state! Or what is the stop Swindon "signing" one of the Lagutas knowing they won't get a work permit and then having a guest for an 8.00 rider all season? That is a good point. Who will they guest for as they are not officially signed? Clubs have a choice either risk waiting for an Aussie and maybe having to use a 3pt rider early on or just sign someone else. Also reading the statement it sounds to me like Horton has a rider as back up in case Woodward visa is late. Edited January 26, 2015 by woz01 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TesarRacing Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 Good statment until that line. If you can't get the riders then tough $hit. Use a 3 point junior as the rules state! Or what is the stop Swindon "signing" one of the Lagutas knowing they won't get a work permit and then having a guest for an 8.00 rider all season? I think that's a bit harsh. No-one wants to see one sided meetings using 3 point riders in place of heat leaders. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz01 Posted January 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 I think that's a bit harsh. No-one wants to see one sided meetings using 3 point riders in place of heat leaders. Its a clubs choice though. If they choose that route it's on them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 (edited) That is a good point. Who will they guest for as they are not officially signed? Clubs have a choice either risk waiting for an Aussie and maybe having to use a 3pt rider early on or just sign someone else. I think that's a bit harsh. No-one wants to see one sided meetings using 3 point riders in place of heat leaders. Theres enough EU riders (or those who don't need permits) out there. Pawlicki, Milik, Kylmakorpi, Korneliussen, Hougaard and Wells (has residency now) as a starting point. And possibly the likes of Ulamek, Walasek, Swiderski, Davidsson (Jonas), Davidsson (Daniel), Nieminen, Dryml.... edit > Barker, Worrall and Allen too Edited January 26, 2015 by SCB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TesarRacing Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 Theres enough EU riders (or those who don't need permits) out there. Pawlicki, Milik, Kylmakorpi, Korneliussen, Hougaard and Wells (has residency now) as a starting point. And possibly the likes of Ulamek, Walasek, Swiderski, Davidsson (Jonas), Davidsson (Daniel), Nieminen, Dryml.... edit > Barker, Worrall and Allen too Fair point Shawn, providing those riders are willing to ride over here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 Fair point Shawn, providing those riders are willing to ride over here. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's ideal - certainly not to be replacing the likes of Holder, Batch and Doyle. But for your Frickes and Woodwards are replaceable - at leats in the short term. And it certainly better than guests. People generally hate guests - and it's an even bigger joke to have a guest for a rider who has not raced for you (the rules know this so don't actually allow it!). You may even find that Woffy might be willing to do 4 weeks at the start of the year if needed, same with KK, Hampel, Magic, mini-Pawlicki, Nicki, Smoli etc are replacements for Batch, Doyle and Holder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
500cc Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 That's part of the problem. You shouldn't apply for a 2/3 yr visa unless you have a 2/3 yr contract with your employer. Speedway in this country only offers 1 yr contracts. Not a problem, the riders are permanent assets of their clubs, so where is the problem? You can just imagine the conversation with V&I "You can't apply for Visa's longer than the contract offered" "It's ok, we operate the asset system" "What's that then" "Basically after a few meetings a rider becomes our asset for their career or until we sell them" "Oh I see, it's a contract really, you just call it as asset, a tradition of the sport I assume" "That's right" "A long term commitment then. With some of the other sports I deal with, they don't offer anything like that level of certainty to their employees. It must be expensive" "Not really. Most of our assets never ride for us. Some rode for me one year and haven't returned for 10 years. Great thing is, if one of our opponents sign him, we get a loan fee. And it gets even better, there's no cost to sign the asset, and no ongoing costs if he's not in our team. I'm a successful businessman you know" "Hold on there. Your telling me you own riders and make money from them without paying them an ongoing wage? Does that include Australians?" "Why yes, they are great as they are so committed to the UK. I can sign lots, more than I can include in my team. Then when other teams want them, I just charge them. Made loads of money that way; and nobody can stop me !!!" "Want to bet, your little cartel stops NOW. Can I have details of your other businesses too" 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.N.T. Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 (edited) Authorities are looking into these visa issues and seeing that this sport is run under their own rules totally different to rules set by to protect employees and used in every business world wide and it must seem bizarre to them. A rider is an asset of a club but if he doesn't ride for you, you don't pay them. Speedway reply that they don't OWN the rider they simply hold his registration to ride in this country. Then when you explain these riders can ride for different teams in Poland, Sweden, Denmark, Czech Republic, Germany, Russia etc and a rider has his registration held by a club in each of those countries. So they are self employed !! In theory yes, but we still charge other tracks to use them as we have their registration. But if you hold their registration then you are the employer and therefore can employ them when you want in a deal that could be every year for the foreseeable future and therefore a long term agreement in a contract. Yes ..... er No ....... er Well sort of but it's how we do things to get an income Well that is about to stop because if they are self employed they can go freely to where they want once a contract has expired .... ie each season On the team front, if Bees can get Shamek Pawlicki in to replace Woodward I would think that would improve the team having four riders that can be good heat leaders but if Poole want him, Kylmakorpi would be a good signing for them. Edited January 26, 2015 by T.N.T. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz01 Posted January 27, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 Been told that Woodward is having another op on his injury so won't start the season. Been reported in Poland apparently and his team Daugavpils are searching for a replacement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aces51 Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 (edited) Been told that Woodward is having another op on his injury so won't start the season. Been reported in Poland apparently and his team Daugavpils are searching for a replacement.Maybe that explains the Coventry statement on the visa issue or am I just being cynical.😂 Whatever the reasons I think what Mick Horton has said is right. Edited January 27, 2015 by Aces51 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bees_Man Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 Time to ring Pawlicki. Especially as an asset it makes sense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 So they are self employed !! Surely this work permit thing puts this myth to bed? Cannot double up, cannot guest... Seems they are employed by a single employer. Time to ring Pawlicki. Especially as an asset it makes sense. Agree. Pawlicki for Woodward turns this ordinary team into quite a decent looking team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 (edited) Time to ring Pawlicki. Especially as an asset it makes sense. If only it was that simple ... i very much doubt cov budget will stretch that far . Edited January 27, 2015 by orion 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Jones Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 If only it was that simple ... i very much doubt cov budget will stretch that far . A very polite way of putting it, if I may say so. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 If only it was that simple ... i very much doubt cov budget will stretch that far . But if we don't ask, we'll never get Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy robin Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 I cannot understand what all the fuss is about people will choose what meeting they want to attend and there will be a collection at Brandon what more do you want, The way some people carry on we may as well have a day for every British Speedway rider that has died. What a shocking post & what a grade one prat you are for putting it. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz01 Posted January 27, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 Pawlicki would be ideal but think it will be someone like Kylmakorpi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philfromcov Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 Been told that Woodward is having another op on his injury so won't start the season. Been reported in Poland apparently and his team Daugavpils are searching for a replacement. thats just appeared on facebook from cameron, im guessing we already have a rider lined up? hence the press release Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INCOGNITO Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 Pawlicki has already been allowed to talk to Poole about this season but obviously they are waiting to see what the situation is with Darcy and Holder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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