Cost Cutting - How

[Guest]

THEY probably would if they actually existed. Life in Britain let alone speedway was very different when they started riding. Far more saw speedway as a worthwhile career then than do now. They grew up in a different age.

 

One of my favourite riders was Jim Tebby at Wimbledon. A real journeyman rider, salt of the earth. Speedway was his second profession but he was a vital member of the Dons team at number two, a vital position under the old (and much lamented) formula. Highlight of his career was when he and Ronnie Moore secured a 5-1 over Ivan Mauger in a KO Cup (also much lamented) meeting at Plough Lane.

 

But had Jim been born 40 years later I very much doubt that he would have gone near a speedway bike.

 

The days of the so-called journeyman speedway riders ended years ago. There were many in the same ilk as dear old Jim Tebby (he and his rider dad Stan were long-time personal friends). Just a few of these journeymen - in the sport for years - include Jack Winstanley, Wal Morton, Jimmy Wright, Bernard 'Bronco' Slade, Pat Flanagan, George Bason, Vic Collins - and more. Sadly, no place in speedway for this type and calibre of rider under the modern set-up.

[pandorum]

Indeed Phil Rising has hit the nail on the head.

Jim Tebby's used to make up most teams when I was a kid and the sport was a lot more simple then with actual teams.

But the zeitgeist that made up the 60s and 70s has long since changed.

 

Speedway here will never recapture those days but maybe it could find a niche for itself with a cheaper form all round for spectators and riders.

But that would need a root and branch face lift and I seriously doubt the sport has any leadership that could achieve that.

It is obsessed with bringing back the so called top riders when they are what killed it in the first place.

 

Speedway needs the Jim Tebby's rather than the Greg Hancock's or even Tai Woffinden's.

We could speak in platitudes and say the sport is at a crossroads or has reached a tipping point but that was years ago.

Now it is a matter of how the sport manages to cope and survive with it's self inflicted lot.

 

It's a very minor sport which is dying and needs a boost.

Many of the answers lie in the pages of this forum but nobody who matters cares to read them.

It's funny but to me speedway lost it's way when it sought foreign 'stars' and allowed the Jim Tebby's to be lost to the sport.

[foamfence]

Indeed Phil Rising has hit the nail on the head.

Jim Tebby's used to make up most teams when I was a kid and the sport was a lot more simple then with actual teams.

But the zeitgeist that made up the 60s and 70s has long since changed.

 

Speedway here will never recapture those days but maybe it could find a niche for itself with a cheaper form all round for spectators and riders.

But that would need a root and branch face lift and I seriously doubt the sport has any leadership that could achieve that.

It is obsessed with bringing back the so called top riders when they are what killed it in the first place.

 

Speedway needs the Jim Tebby's rather than the Greg Hancock's or even Tai Woffinden's.

We could speak in platitudes and say the sport is at a crossroads or has reached a tipping point but that was years ago.

Now it is a matter of how the sport manages to cope and survive with it's self inflicted lot.

 

It's a very minor sport which is dying and needs a boost.

Many of the answers lie in the pages of this forum but nobody who matters cares to read them.

It's funny but to me speedway lost it's way when it sought foreign 'stars' and allowed the Jim Tebby's to be lost to the sport.

 

Totally agree! I think it really got bad when Cradley were stocked with Californian glamour boys and their fans even cheered them in preference to British riders, in test matches and individual events. I wouldn't even watch the GPs if there were no Brits in it. That's why I applaud the Draft system, despite those who moan about it at every opportunity, I think it's the best thing to happen to British Speedway in a long time and will pay dividends if persevered with.

[PHILIPRISING]

Indeed Phil Rising has hit the nail on the head.

Jim Tebby's used to make up most teams when I was a kid and the sport was a lot more simple then with actual teams.

But the zeitgeist that made up the 60s and 70s has long since changed.

 

Speedway here will never recapture those days but maybe it could find a niche for itself with a cheaper form all round for spectators and riders.

But that would need a root and branch face lift and I seriously doubt the sport has any leadership that could achieve that.

It is obsessed with bringing back the so called top riders when they are what killed it in the first place.

 

Speedway needs the Jim Tebby's rather than the Greg Hancock's or even Tai Woffinden's.

We could speak in platitudes and say the sport is at a crossroads or has reached a tipping point but that was years ago.

Now it is a matter of how the sport manages to cope and survive with it's self inflicted lot.

 

It's a very minor sport which is dying and needs a boost.

Many of the answers lie in the pages of this forum but nobody who matters cares to read them.

It's funny but to me speedway lost it's way when it sought foreign 'stars' and allowed the Jim Tebby's to be lost to the sport.

WOULD only take issue on one thing ... speedway needs both the Jim Tebbys and the Greg Hancocks. Any sport trying to attract a paying public needs its superstars, not just because they pull in the punters but because they are the figures that others, even a Jim Tebby, can aspire to or dream about.

 

And, of course, it was far easier to piece together a team years ago when you chose riders rather than a number. Jim gave loyal service to the Dons for many years but if he was riding right now he would probably be forced out because his average was too low or too high.

 

Which brings me back to my perennial gripe ... as a speedway fan, nothing to do with journalism. Continuity of teams and race nights.When we lost that we started on the slippery slope and are still going down in my opinion.

Edited October 25, 2014 by PHILIPRISING

[billybikespeedway]

Jim Tebby also became favorite with Newport fans at Somerton Park for his never say die attitude

[pandorum]

 

Totally agree! I think it really got bad when Cradley were stocked with Californian glamour boys and their fans even cheered them in preference to British riders, in test matches and individual events. I wouldn't even watch the GPs if there were no Brits in it. That's why I applaud the Draft system, despite those who moan about it at every opportunity, I think it's the best thing to happen to British Speedway in a long time and will pay dividends if persevered with.

I have to admit I enjoyed watching those Californian glamour boys a lot. Scott Autry was one of my favourite riders.

But back then they rode here as their main way of making a living and we were lucky enough to see them.

Nowadays that would not have happened as they would all be in Poland

 

Phil Rising made a good point in response to my post.

 

Yes the superstars did indeed enhance the top league here but it was when the Jim Tebby's lost out to the poor quality foreign imports flown in to fill rosters in the 2nd tier that the slide began.

We trained the worlds riders at the expense of our Jim Tebby's and look where that got us.

All those vital #2 and #4 spots were hired out to sub standard European riders who generally did not give a toss about our league.

We had a staple of Jim Tebby's and Aussie upandcomers and it worked well.

Then we opened the door to Europe's Jim Tebby's who were no better but had unusual names so we were excited they had been brought in and the rest is history.

 

I never paid a lot of attention to the hype of those Californian glamour boys but sure as hell enjoyed watching the Tests against the USA and matches that included one of them. But teams had a nucleus of Jim Tebby's and that was what made the sport what it was not Bruce Penhall exciting as he was to watch.

 

Obviously bike costs are important as has been discussed here well before I turned up.

But how much was spent flying in poor quality imports when a Jim Tebby local to the track may well have scored as many and actually cared about the team he rode for.

And as Phil said race nights are another nail in the coffin.

 

Yes as Phil said we need Greg Hancocks but how many of those who were flown in to fill 2nd string and reserve spots did we need?

 

The FTR program was a desperation measure that may well have done some good but imagine if we had done that 20 years ago and encouraged our own instead of being a testing track for foreign riders with little interest in UK racing. For every Gollob there are dozens of star flops who cost a fortune to fly in to score zero and look out of their depth. Surely a kid from the backstreets local to the track could have done that if not more

Edited October 25, 2014 by pandorum

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

THEY probably would if they actually existed. Life in Britain let alone speedway was very different when they started riding. Far more saw speedway as a worthwhile career then than do now. They grew up in a different age.

 

One of my favourite riders was Jim Tebby at Wimbledon. A real journeyman rider, salt of the earth. Speedway was his second profession but he was a vital member of the Dons team at number two, a vital position under the old (and much lamented) formula. Highlight of his career was when he and Ronnie Moore secured a 5-1 over Ivan Mauger in a KO Cup (also much lamented) meeting at Plough Lane.

 

But had Jim been born 40 years later I very much doubt that he would have gone near a speedway bike.

on another subject i made the following post .

In days gone by riders were ordinary talented blokes that the fans made into hero's, today riders are ordinary talented blokes that are self proclaimed hero's and the fans are not buying into it. This is the point i was making, team speedway is about the Jim Tebby's of this world, riders that fans can identify with

[PHILIPRISING]

on another subject i made the following post .

In days gone by riders were ordinary talented blokes that the fans made into hero's, today riders are ordinary talented blokes that are self proclaimed hero's and the fans are not buying into it. This is the point i was making, team speedway is about the Jim Tebby's of this world, riders that fans can identify with

THE trouble these days is that they identify with them one minute and the next they are riding somewhere else. Say it again ... continuity.

[longlivefrankie]

THE trouble these days is that they identify with them one minute and the next they are riding somewhere else. Say it again ... continuity.

 

THE trouble these days is that they identify with them one minute and the next they are riding somewhere else. Say it again ... continuity.

This had been my argument all along are we ever likely to see a Nigel boocock in these days how many years was he at Coventry, and there were others. Most teams had a few core riders who seemed to be at one team more or less. The fans identified with them. Also I feel another issue is today's win at all cost mentally that's crept in. It's my own opinion that this is a playoff mentality.

 

When we had a 17 team british league finished 6th was an achievement and for some clubs a major achievement

Edited October 25, 2014 by longlivefrankie

[Trees]

WOULD only take issue on one thing ... speedway needs both the Jim Tebbys and the Greg Hancocks. Any sport trying to attract a paying public needs its superstars, not just because they pull in the punters but because they are the figures that others, even a Jim Tebby, can aspire to or dream about.

 

And, of course, it was far easier to piece together a team years ago when you chose riders rather than a number. Jim gave loyal service to the Dons for many years but if he was riding right now he would probably be forced out because his average was too low or too high.

 

Which brings me back to my perennial gripe ... as a speedway fan, nothing to do with journalism. Continuity of teams and race nights.When we lost that we started on the slippery slope and are still going down in my opinion.

So you are saying that when we had to give up all our Saturdays things started to go bad, crikey!!!!!!

on another subject i made the following post .

In days gone by riders were ordinary talented blokes that the fans made into hero's, today riders are ordinary talented blokes that are self proclaimed hero's and the fans are not buying into it. This is the point i was making, team speedway is about the Jim Tebby's of this world, riders that fans can identify with

Many riders don't understand fan mentality for sure. Not sure that promoters do either!

[PHILIPRISING]

So you are saying that when we had to give up all our Saturdays things started to go bad, crikey!!!!!!

Many riders don't understand fan mentality for sure. Not sure that promoters do either!

DIDN'T say that at all. Can only speak from personal experience ... Thursday night was speedway night at Wimbledon for me and many friends. That's where we went just about every Thursday from March until October. We didn't even think about it. Thursday = speedway.

 

Chris Louis told me recently that if Ipswich ran on a Wednesday rather than a Thursday their usual crowd was decimated. That's my point. Once fans get out of the habit, routine, call it what you will many simply drift away.

[ch958]

This had been my argument all along are we ever likely to see a Nigel boocock in these days how many years was he at Coventry, and there were others. Most teams had a few core riders who seemed to be at one team more or less. The fans identified with them. Also I feel another issue is today's win at all cost mentally that's crept in. It's my own opinion that this is a playoff mentality.

 

When we had a 17 team british league finished 6th was an achievement and for some clubs a major achievement

 

 

yes the win at all costs attitude has been a bad thing generally - obviously its nice to win but chopping and changing teams every 5 minutes and bending rules is a modern phenomenon in the main and hasn't been helpful.

it will be easy to pick this comment off - its not the only reason for the sport's decline - Mr Rising mentioned another, continuity, and thats not the only reason either - its a few things, maybe dozens.

[Trees]

DIDN'T say that at all. Can only speak from personal experience ... Thursday night was speedway night at Wimbledon for me and many friends. That's where we went just about every Thursday from March until October. We didn't even think about it. Thursday = speedway.

 

Chris Louis told me recently that if Ipswich ran on a Wednesday rather than a Thursday their usual crowd was decimated. That's my point. Once fans get out of the habit, routine, call it what you will many simply drift away.

Well we must be a bit different at Lynn cos we changed from Saturdays to Wednesdays and the crowds aren't too bad. Although I dare say they might be better on a Saturday ..... no school for the kids, no work next day for away fans etc

[PHILIPRISING]

Well we must be a bit different at Lynn cos we changed from Saturdays to Wednesdays and the crowds aren't too bad. Although I dare say they might be better on a Saturday ..... no school for the kids, no work next day for away fans etc

CHRIS wasn't saying that Wednesday was a bad speedway night per se but that Ipswich fans see Thursday as their night. On Wednesdays they might be doing something else.

[Vince]

You only have to go to an amateur meeting at Scunthorpe to see there are plenty of people out there who want to ride Speedway. Give them the opportunity to have plenty of time on the bike and it's worth spending their hard earned money on. Let those thinking about it see that there is a system in place to help them to progress to the higher leagues and you will see more taking it up.

 

The problem then is that for those good enough to progress through the national league into the PL so often get stopped dead by the asset system that makes an untried foreign rider a better option for a promoter. Once they get him over they'll persevere with him because they stand to gain something in the long term if he comes good. The British lad will get a few meetings and if he struggles will be out (not least because the fans will be wanting him gone). It's a big step up and these kids need a fastrack system for the PL that gives them the time to learn their trade. The asset system needs to go in my opinion and be replaced by a fund to help training tracks paid into by those teams that don't run them.

 

Then give a team building points advantage for riders retained year on year by teams and you will maybe get your local heroes back.

 

Don't let foreign riders drop below their assessed average for team building and you'll take away another obstacle for British riders. I would say though that those willing to come over and ride on an ACU licence giving the British leagues priority could be exempt.

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

You only have to go to an amateur meeting at Scunthorpe to see there are plenty of people out there who want to ride Speedway. Give them the opportunity to have plenty of time on the bike and it's worth spending their hard earned money on. Let those thinking about it see that there is a system in place to help them to progress to the higher leagues and you will see more taking it up.

 

The problem then is that for those good enough to progress through the national league into the PL so often get stopped dead by the asset system that makes an untried foreign rider a better option for a promoter. Once they get him over they'll persevere with him because they stand to gain something in the long term if he comes good. The British lad will get a few meetings and if he struggles will be out (not least because the fans will be wanting him gone). It's a big step up and these kids need a fastrack system for the PL that gives them the time to learn their trade. The asset system needs to go in my opinion and be replaced by a fund to help training tracks paid into by those teams that don't run them.

 

Then give a team building points advantage for riders retained year on year by teams and you will maybe get your local heroes back.

 

Don't let foreign riders drop below their assessed average for team building and you'll take away another obstacle for British riders. I would say though that those willing to come over and ride on an ACU licence giving the British leagues priority could be exempt.

and the whole british rider thing gets undermined by things like the devon v buxton meeting tonight when despite advertising the spot on facebook buxton had to ride with 5 riders and r/r ,surely a rider british rider who really wants to make it the sport would of gone even if it costs them money

[Vince]

Can't disagree with that Dean. Couldn't believe they couldn't get a rider when I saw it on FB, you would think somebody would want to give it a go.

 

Must admit that as much as I want to see young British riders make their way when I go to Rye House for practice days I can't help but wonder why some spend so much time sitting around in the pits.

 

There are British kids out there though with a really good attitude and it would be unfair to tar them all with the same brush.

[brianbuck]

Speedway has reached the stage where is wouldn't be possible to ditch every sub-standard foreign rider in one fell swoop.To do this would only create a vacuum which at present couldn't be filled and have the inevitable result of teams of very lopsided strengths - but we could say "no more from now on" - and stick rigidly to it.

 

We could revert to the old system whereby EVERY foreign rider was automatically given an eight or nine point average and kept it. That way promoters would soon latch on to the fact that bringing over unknown foreigners who might or might not eventually make the grade, would be an expensively pointless exercise.

[Deano]

You only have to go to an amateur meeting at Scunthorpe to see there are plenty of people out there who want to ride Speedway. Give them the opportunity to have plenty of time on the bike and it's worth spending their hard earned money on. Let those thinking about it see that there is a system in place to help them to progress to the higher leagues and you will see more taking it up.

 

Never been to an amateur meeting, but if what you are saying is true then the BSPA should be looking at ways to make more people access league racing.

 

Lets promote a system that encourages the semi proffessional rider, with reduced cost machinery that this thread talks of.

 

This could draw more local riders, ones who are Tesco stackers by day and the clubs 2, 6's and 7's by night.

 

If it means scrapping points limit and averages to maintain team consistency then so be it. The richest clubs always seem to end up a the top end of the league anyway. Poor clubs just end up paying a wage they can't afford if they have the misfortune to end up doing well! lol.

[Hamish McRaker]

The UK can no longer afford to operate the current Elite League. And it is no longer a practical proposition.

There still needs to be more than one level of league, but in the present times, the UK is far more suited to the top level being approximately the level of the current PL. And if the higher-priced riders don't like that, then tough, we should have the balls to say goodbye and we will go with something that is more suitable.

That should put an end to issues about race nights.

 

If any of the current EL clubs don't like that, and think it would be a backwards step, then they should look at forming a european super league or something like that.