Mjolnir Posted January 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 This civilised manner of debate will never catch on Haha ... we've done well! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyE Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 (edited) Kim will almost definitely ride at #2 with AJ. Â Â I'm not sure I agree - I think we might travel better this season. For starters we have a true #1 in AJ, who will score and entertain wherever he goes. Bech is an incredibly talented young rider who scored well at plenty of tracks last season (particularly in the second half of meetings) so I'm looking forward to seeing how he does now that he's seen the tracks before. Â Nilsson is definitely a home track specialist so I can see your point there, but both Lawson and Kennett should do fairly well away - Lawson was always a big track rider before he had to master Arena (and we've see what he can do at Poole), and Kennett has enough experience at other clubs that he should be able to perform on the road as well as at home (assuming he's on form). Even Birks and Ellis are used to bigger tracks, and Ellis was often as good if not better away than at home last season. Â I'd be interested to hear your thoughts though Steve0. Statistically correct when excluding bonus points - Home 5.10 Away 5.24 Edited January 10, 2015 by TonyE 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mjolnir Posted January 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 Statistically correct when excluding bonus points - Home 5.10 Away 5.24 Cheers Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontforgetthefueltapsbruv Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 Statistically correct when excluding bonus points - Home 5.10 Away 5.24dont see that being back in the NL as opposed to securing a PL can help Adam.Im disappointed he is not back at Ipswich for sure. Of course being an asset of an EL friday club makes it very difficult as it rules out so many options. Friday nights for 5 PL clubs means they cant sign him and others are not keen as he could miss half the away meetings. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mjolnir Posted January 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 dont see that being back in the NL as opposed to securing a PL can help Adam. Im disappointed he is not back at Ipswich for sure. Of course being an asset of an EL friday club makes it very difficult as it rules out so many options. Friday nights for 5 PL clubs means they cant sign him and others are not keen as he could miss half the away meetings. It certainly is a shame that he's without a PL place at the moment. I wasn't suggesting that NL will particularly aid his progression as a rider, but I do think it will boost his confidence a bit which can only be a good thing. It's still very early days for Adam's career and I think he's a good example of the EL fast track system being a great thing, even more so as he's currently without a PL place. I'm sure that won't remain the case for long though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontforgetthefueltapsbruv Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 It certainly is a shame that he's without a PL place at the moment. I wasn't suggesting that NL will particularly aid his progression as a rider, but I do think it will boost his confidence a bit which can only be a good thing. It's still very early days for Adam's career and I think he's a good example of the EL fast track system being a great thing, even more so as he's currently without a PL place. I'm sure that won't remain the case for long though!IMO he has no PL due to the fast track system and the priority rules as a Lakeside asset.Without the fast track and or the asset priority I am 100% certain he would have a PL place. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mjolnir Posted January 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 IMO he has no PL due to the fast track system and the priority rules as a Lakeside asset. Without the fast track and or the asset priority I am 100% certain he would have a PL place. That could be part of the reason I guess, which is a shame if it is. Hopefully he'll make the most of this season and continue to improve - he has a lot of potential. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2ndbendbeerhut Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 As a tier 2 reserve i would think that Ellis would have been on the top of every promoters list of riders for the EL. This could also be the case for PL promotions too, not many riders on a 4.5 ave would be better! However could it be that the PL promotions have been put off with him having to miss numerous meetings when they were to ride at Friday tracks due to him being "fast-tracked" at Lakeside?. This also would rule out Friday night tracks themselves , two of which Somerset and Peterborough would have suited him nicely. Last year there was an agreement that he could miss some Lakeside fixtures to ride for the Witches, maybe this was not going to be the case this year? For someone like Ellis, riding week in week out in the PL would do him far more good than being fast tracked. Something seems wrong at Lakeside when they have created problems for both Ellis and Morley,whom you would have thought would be in the PL too, but finds himself with neither an EL or PL place! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mjolnir Posted January 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 (edited) For someone like Ellis, riding week in week out in the PL would do him far more good than being fast tracked. Why do you feel that PL would be so much more beneficial than the EL fast track? I'm curious. Â I'm sure Adam would have opted out of the draft if he felt that PL would be a better option for him, and that a team place would be more likely. Edited January 18, 2015 by Mjolnir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2ndbendbeerhut Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 (edited) Why do you feel that PL would be so much more beneficial than the EL fast track? I'm curious. Â I'm sure Adam would have opted out of the draft if he felt that PL would be a better option for him, and that a team place would be more likely. Â Maybe he thought that he had an EL and PL places sorted, so didnt need to? Edited January 18, 2015 by 2ndbendbeerhut 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mjolnir Posted January 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 (edited) For someone like Ellis, riding week in week out in the PL would do him far more good than being fast tracked. Something seems wrong at Lakeside when they have created problems for both Ellis and Morley  Maybe he thought that he had an EL and PL places sorted, so didnt need to?  If that was the case, then how could Lakeside be considered the ones causing him a problem regarding a PL place? Surely that would be down to the PL club that he thought he had a place at? Or have I misunderstood and that isn't what you're suggesting?  Either way, as I said earlier, I'm hoping to see Adam continue to make progress this season and I'm sure he will - it's still only the very beginning of his career. And I'm sure some PL clubs have his number ready if they need to make team changes mid-season! Edited January 18, 2015 by Mjolnir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2ndbendbeerhut Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 (edited) If that was the case, then how would Lakeside be the ones causing him a problem regarding a PL place? Surely that would be down to the PL club that he thought he had a place at? Â Â As Lakeside picked him, it was then difficult for him to ride PL due to missing too many meetings.Wouldn't be able to ride at Edinburgh, Peterborough, Plymouth, Somerset or Scunthorpe as all ride on fridays. Then any other PL club would have him missing those away fixtures plus any home ones that clash with Lakeside away fixtures (Swindon on thursday and Leceister on saturdays) Sarjeant at Coventry will have the same "problem" as he will miss the Friday PL meetings also. BTW Last season Ellis rode in 37 of his teams 46 PL fixtures. Edited January 18, 2015 by 2ndbendbeerhut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mjolnir Posted January 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 As Lakeside picked him, it was then difficult for him to ride PL due to missing too many meetings.Wouldn't be able to ride at Edinburgh, Peterborough, Plymouth, Somerset or Scunthorpe as all ride on fridays. Then any other PL club would have him missing those away fixtures plus any home ones that clash with Lakeside away fixtures (Swindon on thursday and Leceister on saturdays) Sarjeant at Coventry will have the same "problem" as he will miss the Friday PL meetings also. BTW Last season Ellis rode in 37 of his teams 46 PL fixtures. I understand that, but you went on to suggest that perhaps he only pursued the "less beneficial" draft as he thought he had a PL place lined up already, so my point was that if that was the case then it isn't Lakeside that have primarily obstructed him riding in the PL - it's the PL club that Adam had been expecting to ride at in the first place. Â We're a long way down a road of assumptions and hypotheticals now though! Haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontforgetthefueltapsbruv Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 I understand that, but you went on to suggest that perhaps he only pursued the "less beneficial" draft as he thought he had a PL place lined up already, so my point was that if that was the case then it isn't Lakeside that have primarily obstructed him riding in the PL - it's the PL club that Adam had been expecting to ride at in the first place. Â We're a long way down a road of assumptions and hypotheticals now though! Haha. Perhaps its not the place of a couple of us on here to post a more direct answer! Hypotheticals and the odd riddle is the most you can expect!! You may wish to check the like on post 386 though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 IMO he has no PL due to the fast track system and the priority rules as a Lakeside asset. Without the fast track and or the asset priority I am 100% certain he would have a PL place. Â Â Without the fast track he would have a PL place but he wouldn't have an EL place, plus he will have a full season with Brum riding at No1 so he will actually be doing more meetings than if he was just doing PL He will have plenty of time on the bike which is what he needs at this stage . 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontforgetthefueltapsbruv Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 Â Â Without the fast track he would have a PL place but he wouldn't have an EL place, plus he will have a full season with Brum riding at No1 so he will actually be doing more meetings than if he was just doing PL He will have plenty of time on the bike which is what he needs at this stage . equally if Lakeside did not have priority then he would have EL and PL rather than EL and NL.If the fast track really is about rider development then the riders interests should outweigh the club.IMO. Surely in a year when Adam would be hoping/expecting to break out of PL reserve into a top 5 even heat leader position to effectively be frozen out of the PL and go back to NL cant be best. Granted the beefed up fast track is better than last year but he could still have had both the best options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 equally if Lakeside did not have priority then he would have EL and PL rather than EL and NL. If the fast track really is about rider development then the riders interests should outweigh the club.IMO. Surely in a year when Adam would be hoping/expecting to break out of PL reserve into a top 5 even heat leader position to effectively be frozen out of the PL and go back to NL cant be best. Granted the beefed up fast track is better than last year but he could still have had both the best options. If Lakeside or any other EL club did not have priority there would be little point in signing young assets and bringing them on. Â Look beyond Adam and consider young riders generally. Lakeside in conjunction with Martin Hagon have invested in the Hagon Shocks Academy where young riders can develop on the training track from a young age. Itis the sort of thing that Britsh speedway needs. What would be the point if other clubs could cherry pick whoever they want from the training school and Lakeside missed out on them. Â Lakeside have to consider their own paying customers that keep the team going. Adam is one of the best second tier FTDR riders. Why should the fans have to put up with an inferior guest for half the season? Fans of all clubs are complaining about too many guests as it is. Â The fault with all this is that the PL resolutely refuse to have anything to do with training young Brits and prefer to pack their sides with foreign riders. Unless and until the PL come on board with an eqivilant of the FTDR or in some other way Give preference to young Brits over foreign inports there will always be problems of this nature. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontforgetthefueltapsbruv Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) I dont disagree at all with your point about Lakeside looking to do what is best for them and applaud their efforts to develop talent with the training schools. Â You will see from my posts on various relevant threads I agree with your point re the PL and a similar fast track system needing to be in place. Â I have advocated Brit only reserve berths and/or for min quota Brit positions etc. Â The asset position should be a level playing field rather than as it is now where the EL can sign but not use and loan out for others to bring on. Edited January 19, 2015 by dontforgetthefueltapsbruv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 Haven't the PL promoters said they would look at introducing their 'Fast Track' equivalent in 2016?! I'm sure that was stated in the post-AGM comments! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mjolnir Posted January 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 Haven't the PL promoters said they would look at introducing their 'Fast Track' equivalent in 2016?! I'm sure that was stated in the post-AGM comments! I hope so! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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