Star Lady Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 Tracks years ago, I'm talking 60s here, from memory seemed to have much deeper dirt. My non technical/mechanical minded brain says that that in itself would slow bikes down. Surely it would also slow down a rider sliding along the track into the air fence or another bike sliding along the track before it slammed into a stricken rider. Not by much granted but every little helps. Or am I completely wrong, which is quite possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 You could add gundersen to that 2nd list oldace. Tommy Knudsen had a horrendous back injury that he was fortunate to recover from. Jan o pedersen, Dennis sigalos, Shawn Moran all top riders from that era who suffered career ending injuries. I remember Shawn breaking his leg in 1983 but I cant say I recall him copping another bad one tbh Shawn retired early in the 1994 season because he was fearful of getting injured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 Shawn retired early in the 1994 season because he was fearful of getting injured. Yes indeed he did after a few poor matches for Sheffield Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
semion Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 Maybe we should also factor in how often the top guys would meet each other in years gone by. English riders by and large only rode in England, No Grand Prix's, just the odd International match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 One thing that's not been mentioned is the tracks by and large are the same as 30 years ago - with exception of air fences and moving lights back they are the same . Also certain tracks park tractors water tankers and grading equipment right close to the track accident waiting to happen The tracks should stay the same too. The bikes should evolve to suit the tracks, not the other way around! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g13webb Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 There is not one rider from the pre 4 valve days that would say the bikes are more difficult to ride now, the near double rpm makes them much easier to ride. If you are going to make stuff up, make it believable Well of course you know everything and everybody who rode in the pre 4 valve era. You would need to, to make a 'full-on' statement like that. Two things here, 1, I wasn't referring to the pre 4 valve era and , 2, I wasn't making things up. Whether you want to believe what these riders thought is entirely up to you. Either way I'm not practically bothered. But for the accusation of making things up, probably highlights your integrity, rather than mind..... I made a mention this morning, about not liking the number of bad accidents we seem to be getting these days and how it turns people away, and I stand by that. I have never said top riders didn't crash, merely mentioned about the percentage of top riders having accidents. GRW is the king of making stuff up and then refusing to change his opinion. and, Your comment, doesn't even warrant a reply. Go away and do something useful !!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 Shawn retired early in the 1994 season because he was fearful of getting injured.Did i hear Shawn say basically overnight he just lost his nerve,?not to worry what a great rider he was great value everywhere he went. I don't see that at all. You mentioned above a period of twenty years and twenty riders getting seriously injured. In numbers alone, that pales significantly to the numbers hurt today. The machines of today are far more technical with much more speed than yesterday's, that have also become harder to control. Coupled to that the poorly prepared tracks, and limitation of tyres, you have all the ingredients you need for tragic accidents...... All the i Nigel Wasley, Chris Prime.RIP others, never forgotten though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sommelier Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 They used to park tractors on the centre green. The death of Stuart Shirley at Ellesmere Port was because he collided with the tractor. Yes, i forgot about that Oldace, if i remember right, was it a pratice day & involving Kenny Carter ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 Shawn retired early in the 1994 season because he was fearful of getting injured. I thought I recalled that was when he was coming back from a bad injury,but obviously mis remembered that one.Point remains there were a significant number of top riders having major injuries. In recent times there is Darcy, Rico and...? Guess you could say holder but his injuries weren't career/life threatening. Am I missing anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 Yes, i forgot about that Oldace, if i remember right, was it a pratice day & involving Kenny Carter ??? It certainly was and yes it was following a tangle with Kenny Carter. Ironically, although nothing to do with the crash, Kenny was Chris Primes team mate in the ill fated race that took Chris' life. If I recall it was Kenny's first ever league race Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 Please tell us how you come to that conclusion, with the bikes faster than ever ? Not seeing it myself..Did u even read, let alone understand the significance, of oldaces list? Please tell us how you come to that conclusion, with the bikes faster than ever ? Not seeing it myself..Did u even read, let alone understand the significance, of oldaces list? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 (edited) The list when you think about it is quite scary really, just forgot how many gave there lives to entertain us.Also the years i have been going i have seen some real bad crashes that luckily have turned out well.The worst one i recall was Steen Mastrup at the Abbey,he went over the safety fence on the pits bend he got away with just wrist or collarbone injuries i think.I really thought that was going to be a dreadfull evening but it turned out well in the end. Edited September 1, 2015 by sidney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluPanther Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 Did u even read, let alone understand the significance, of oldaces list? Did u even read, let alone understand the significance, of oldaces list? There are more injuries in Speedway now than in decades past. Less fatalities does not mean it's safer, it's not and never will be. The faster it gets, the more injuries will occur. Maybe you don't understand the significance of speed.. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 Less fatalities does not mean it's safer? How about less riders ending up in wheelchairs? The autobahn is faster than nz motorways, but I'd argue it's also safer. Appreciate that speed is a factor, but bikes aren't hugely faster now, certainly not fast enough to offset advances in protective wear, airfences and medical care. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 Less fatalities does not mean it's safer? How about less riders ending up in wheelchairs? The autobahn is faster than nz motorways, but I'd argue it's also safer. Appreciate that speed is a factor, but bikes aren't hugely faster now, certainly not fast enough to offset advances in protective wear, airfences and medical care. Correct. While modern bikes may have double the rpm the actual speeds are only about 5 to 8 per cent faster than the seventies. More broken bones is down to using nylon race suits and armour rather than padded leathers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluPanther Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 Less fatalities does not mean it's safer? How about less riders ending up in wheelchairs? The autobahn is faster than nz motorways, but I'd argue it's also safer. Appreciate that speed is a factor, but bikes aren't hugely faster now, certainly not fast enough to offset advances in protective wear, airfences and medical care. That's an opinion. My opinion is it's not safer or more dangerous than it ever was. It has been, and always will be a sport littered with injuries.. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 Yes it's an opinion. But its am opinion supported by facts, whereas the opposing view is supported by...? Of course it's still dangerous, speedway is inherently dangerous and always will be, which is not to say improvements can't or shouldn't be made. Just not convinced that speed is the main issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluPanther Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 Yes it's an opinion. But its am opinion supported by facts, whereas the opposing view is supported by...? Of course it's still dangerous, speedway is inherently dangerous and always will be, which is not to say improvements can't or shouldn't be made. Just not convinced that speed is the main issue. It's one of the issues, and there are many issues to consider. Any improvements must always be encouraged, i agree. Anyway, you must be smiling after the result tonight ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
castrolargh Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 In my opinion, its not the extra speed of the modern speedway bike compared to one from the "weslake era" that is the problem, but the unpredictability of having a high revving motor spinning the rear tyre that suddenly gains massive amounts of extra grip due to coming out of its narrow power band, causing it to "launch", out of control. Limiting engine revs down from 12-13k to say 7 or 8 k would reduce this problem , reduce engine wear, reduce service costs and I think , make the sport safer 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tellboy Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 In my opinion this thread has gone a long way off of being a King's Lynn thread anymore.Can't we start another thread for all this jibber jabber and just continue this one as a King's Lynn related thread. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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