SCB Posted November 4, 2014 Report Share Posted November 4, 2014 But shouldn't that be the first step? To get the old fans who now rarely if ever attend to come back? The length of meetings and the amount of guests in each meeting is the two biggest issues for me. The amount of guests put off the older fans and new fans who wonder how can a rider compete for another team in the same league. A meeting should really take an hour and a half max unless circumstances dictate otherwise. As an "old fan who now rarely if ever attends" who chats a lot about the sport with my dad who is an "old fan who now rarely if ever attends" I assure you that the big names are no our issue. Whats put us off the sport is having to travel at least an hour to and from our local tracks (Somerset and Swindon) or further to get to a meeting on time to find it's starting 15 minutes late and then taking 2.5 to 4 hours to run so we don't get home until 11 having left the house at 6 after a day at work already. Take the play-off final, it was my nieces 6th birthday party, the meeting was moved days before as another club had failed to run a meeting. I either had to miss the meeting or miss most of my nieces birthday party - I left Newport at 5.30 and rushed to Coventry to be there for the advertised start time then stood around for 15 minutes waiting for it to start. Then I only got 12 heats. I felt pretty ripped off and pissed off that night. Having already been annoyed the week earlier finding out the meeting date had changed anyway - farce after farce. Guests have always happened, certainly in all the time I have been a regular fan. In 1999 Newport had Brent Werner, Phil Morris and Mike Coles are almost perma-guests! And that was in the oh so perfect PL. They're not ideal, R/R is much better with a #8 named but that doesn't work in the current EL format. The other thing that puts me off is the dodgy off track decisions. I basically went from a 50 meeting a season supporter to about 10 in 3 seasons person when the Kildemand/Morris/Ward/text/rape thing kicked off. But it's all the manipulation and how it's continually allowed that annoys me. Stop it happening. The rule book isn't that hard to understand but people get confused as 1. It changes a lot and 2. Clubs cheat. Stick to the rules, stick to the fixture list, start at the start time and run meeting in 90-120 minutes. It doesn't need massive changes, just minor tweaks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g13webb Posted November 4, 2014 Report Share Posted November 4, 2014 But shouldn't that be the first step? To get the old fans who now rarely if ever attend to come back? The length of meetings and the amount of guests in each meeting is the two biggest issues for me. The amount of guests put off the older fans and new fans who wonder how can a rider compete for another team in the same league. A meeting should really take an hour and a half max unless circumstances dictate otherwise. If the product was right, all the old fans would be the first to return. But it has to be affordable, it has to be promotable. and putting on a good show, all those points mentioned in SCB post (101) are all relevant. As much as I enjoy watching top riders, they are not the be-all of a good meeting. There are not enough class riders competing on our tracks now to warrant the importance they are given. Years ago when all teams tracked 3 or 4 class riders it was different, Now you're lucky to have one per team. Priced way over the top, the supporters are being ripped off when the teams have to share riders because there ain't enough to go round. Teams are now made up of Double Uppers, Premier League Stars, Guests and FTR's . and one wonders why the crowds are staying away.......... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz01 Posted November 4, 2014 Report Share Posted November 4, 2014 It's certainly a tough one as we are all pretty much saying we are not getting value for money for different reasons. For me I'd go regardless and more fool me but I've just posted reasons why people I know don't go anymore. The rule breaking (bending) is a major one also. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted November 4, 2014 Report Share Posted November 4, 2014 Unfortunately the standard of the Elite league is no different from the Premier, the EL should offer all the top riders from all over the world otherwise the Elite word is just a farce. It is, slight balance alteration in years gone by but a PL would struggle to beat the weakest of EL sides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g13webb Posted November 5, 2014 Report Share Posted November 5, 2014 It is, slight balance alteration in years gone by but a PL would struggle to beat the weakest of EL sides. Its not about the strength of a team, it's about the strength of the product. The teams now are not much different, but the PL product is far better. There's more Clubs, there's more Riders, there's more Meetings. and more Competitions. Most tracks race weekly and that has to be more sellable than that of the Elite league. It's certainly a tough one as we are all pretty much saying we are not getting value for money for different reasons. For me I'd go regardless and more fool me but I've just posted reasons why people I know don't go anymore. The rule breaking (bending) is a major one also. I'm like you mate, A diehard fan who just enjoys watching bikes and cars racing about, the smell, the escape of normality, being in my own little world. It doesn't matter to me who wins, just able to watch whenever is enough for me. If I was to take on board all the problems of the sport, I'd been gone years ago. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shale Searcher Posted November 5, 2014 Report Share Posted November 5, 2014 Adie Funk should be a shoe in for next season. One Rider I would like to see move on is...... Robert Lambert. Then come back in 2016. Not the 1970's Adie Funk???!!! We had him at Leicester briefly, cannot remember the year, but remember filling in a lot of 0's for him!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
semion Posted November 5, 2014 Report Share Posted November 5, 2014 I think I almost agree with GRW (faint, smelling salts). At Lynn we have had Premier League racing and Elite League racing over the last 5 years. Have the crowds been that much bigger for Elite League racing ? I dont think so. If we have to say goodbye to the few big hitters we have, then so be it. The costs need to be kept down. Speedway is not a £17 Sport. I would like to see One Big League, maybe a little better in standard than current Premier League, which should be achievable if the Current Non Grand Prix riders are filtered in. Also I feel it is vital that the FTR are used at 6 & 7. Well thats my take on it, for what its worth ( not a lot i know). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted November 5, 2014 Report Share Posted November 5, 2014 Its not about the strength of a team, it's about the strength of the product. The teams now are not much different, but the PL product is far better. There's more Clubs, there's more Riders, there's more Meetings. and more Competitions. Most tracks race weekly and that has to be more sellable than that of the Elite league. Depends what you class as `not much different`. The point remains that a PL club would struggle top beat the weakest EL club as was suggested before. The point that the PL is a `far better product` is very much open to suggestion, depending what fans want from their league/club. The PL is hardly more `sellable` than the EL, if it was SKY would have been all over it like a rash. SKY still want the strongest product there is which says a lot. Of course a lot of EL fans want the product much stronger, i am no different. A top level league is always more sellable and remains so. The PL may well have have the product that their fans want - that i am not denying. However the PL is in no different a situation to the EL with regards ending the season with the play offs almost as an after thought and bundled in with little fanfare. I hear some fans moaning about the Play Offs being all that is wrong in Speedway and yet the PL has followed the EL example to decide the title. So we cant be all that bad. r some fans saying that the play offs are the Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitusTokio Posted November 5, 2014 Report Share Posted November 5, 2014 Detail all seems a little sketchy but what Rosco says about visas here is a little worrying for speedway http://www.swindonlinksport.com/swindon_sports_news/roscovisas Is it just the closure of a loophole that has been exploited? He also says Swindon will be fine, which I guess is because Nick Morris has a British passport and Batchelor/Doyle are competing at World Championship level, so visas shouldn't be an issue. Guessing this means riders like North, Fricke, the Kurtz boys etc might be in a spot of bother? Would Schlein be a problem? I don't know his personal situation with visas etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted November 5, 2014 Report Share Posted November 5, 2014 Would Schlein be a problem? I don't know his personal situation with visas etc. Schlein first come over as a Brit so I'm not even sure he needs a work permit. Not sure how exactly, granny from Edinburgh I'm guessing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dabbsjoe Posted November 5, 2014 Report Share Posted November 5, 2014 Schlein first come over as a Brit so I'm not even sure he needs a work permit. Not sure how exactly, granny from Edinburgh I'm guessing. isn't his mrs English, also he has kids that were born here possibly ? same for Holder also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted November 5, 2014 Report Share Posted November 5, 2014 Its not about the strength of a team, it's about the strength of the product. The teams now are not much different, but the PL product is far better. There's more Clubs, there's more Riders, there's more Meetings. and more Competitions. Most tracks race weekly and that has to be more sellable than that of the Elite league. If the Pl was so good then why are the crowds so poor ? So much for your view of what fans want . Less meetings stronger sides is the way forward 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g13webb Posted November 6, 2014 Report Share Posted November 6, 2014 If the Pl was so good then why are the crowds so poor ? So much for your view of what fans want . Less meetings stronger sides is the way forward The are many reasons why the crowds are poor, Costs; VFM; Crap track; Poor racing, Rule bending, Bad organisation, Pissed of with guests; Long drawn out meetings, No atmosphere, need I go on........... Obviously you are entitled to your opinion, but I find it rather contradictory. You say the way forward is to have less meetings and stronger teams. How will that help in persuading new supporters to come and watch. The only people that would benefit is the riders. I think they are taking enough as it is. Surely the way forward is to address some of the issues mentioned above and have regular race meetings. Only then will you be able to entice the old fans back and new ones to come along........ 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreverblue Posted November 6, 2014 Report Share Posted November 6, 2014 The are many reasons why the crowds are poor, Costs; VFM; Crap track; Poor racing, Rule bending, Bad organisation, Pissed of with guests; Long drawn out meetings, No atmosphere, need I go on........... Obviously you are entitled to your opinion, but I find it rather contradictory. You say the way forward is to have less meetings and stronger teams. How will that help in persuading new supporters to come and watch. The only people that would benefit is the riders. I think they are taking enough as it is. Surely the way forward is to address some of the issues mentioned above and have regular race meetings. Only then will you be able to entice the old fans back and new ones to come along........ I agree with you, I know it costs money to address these issues but surely the benefits outweigh the investment and if peterborough's last statement is anything to go by there is still plenty of people who dont want to lose it. To me the main issues are crap tracks, poor racing and badly run meetings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fullbore Posted November 6, 2014 Report Share Posted November 6, 2014 You say the way forward is to have less meetings and stronger teams. How will that help in persuading new supporters to come and watch. Funny how Poland and Sweden do so well with strong teams and a 14 match league... Niamh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
semion Posted November 6, 2014 Report Share Posted November 6, 2014 With less meetings that is fine for all the riders who are fixed up with Grand Prix/Poland/Denmark/Sweden.. etc, but what about the British lads who will have to make do with fewer meetings, their overheads wont go down. So If they dont Double Up/down/sideways where they they earn the money to remain competitive ? Also if there are less meetings sponsors of clubs/riders would surely expect to be paying less. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Smith Posted November 6, 2014 Report Share Posted November 6, 2014 Funny how Poland and Sweden do so well with strong teams and a 14 match league... Niamh Poland is an extreme. We can't and never will compare with them. If you look for a comparison, Sweden is the better option. Less fixtures & all the top riders and arguably better crowds. How do they do it? For the British Elite League though, if we went home and away once I have no doubt we'll be looking at a minimum of £20 adult admission Riders will want a similar yearly salary even with less running costs, it would be very naive to think the current top riders we have now would except what would be a pay cut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Star Lady Posted November 6, 2014 Report Share Posted November 6, 2014 Poland is an extreme. We can't and never will compare with them. If you look for a comparison, Sweden is the better option. Less fixtures & all the top riders and arguably better crowds. How do they do it? For the British Elite League though, if we went home and away once I have no doubt we'll be looking at a minimum of £20 adult admission Riders will want a similar yearly salary even with less running costs, it would be very naive to think the current top riders we have now would except what would be a pay cut. What I cannot get my head around is the whole of British speedway seems willing to change for the sake of 15-20 riders that want less meetings. What about the rest of the riders who make up the bulk of the Elite League, does no one care about them. I could not give a flying fart for GP riders (or others who think they should be) who fly in rider 4/5 races and then hightail it back to the airport to their next big pay day. I'd far rather watch a race with riders of maybe a lesser standard who race in closer proximity to each other. Those "lesser" riders in my experience seem to remember that there are paying customers who expect some kind of recognition if it's only a wave as they go past on the warm down lap. From my limited experience this season (4 away meetings) I got far more pleasure watching the likes of Kerr, Rose, R Lambert fighting for points than I did from watching Bjerre and NKI riding off into the distance because of superior machinery. No disrespect intended to the 2 Danes I can watch the top riders virtually every week on the TV if I choose but young riders (especially Brits) making their way up the ladder are my preference. Quite a few things would have to change before I became a regular again at Lynn. A presenter with personality and knowledge of the sport would be a start (that's an NA prob) most of the other probs are sport wide. Stupid rules, meetings that are far too drawn out, too much gardening etc etc. Just my opinion (I was a bit bored ) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Smith Posted November 6, 2014 Report Share Posted November 6, 2014 (edited) What I cannot get my head around is the whole of British speedway seems willing to change for the sake of 15-20 riders that want less meetings. What about the rest of the riders who make up the bulk of the Elite League, does no one care about them. I could not give a flying fart for GP riders (or others who think they should be) who fly in rider 4/5 races and then hightail it back to the airport to their next big pay day. I'd far rather watch a race with riders of maybe a lesser standard who race in closer proximity to each other. Those "lesser" riders in my experience seem to remember that there are paying customers who expect some kind of recognition if it's only a wave as they go past on the warm down lap. From my limited experience this season (4 away meetings) I got far more pleasure watching the likes of Kerr, Rose, R Lambert fighting for points than I did from watching Bjerre and NKI riding off into the distance because of superior machinery. No disrespect intended to the 2 Danes I can watch the top riders virtually every week on the TV if I choose but young riders (especially Brits) making their way up the ladder are my preference. Quite a few things would have to change before I became a regular again at Lynn. A presenter with personality and knowledge of the sport would be a start (that's an NA prob) most of the other probs are sport wide. Stupid rules, meetings that are far too drawn out, too much gardening etc etc. Just my opinion (I was a bit bored ) I agree with you, I can live without the "best riders" in the world but there are many that have said they'll continue to walk away if these riders continue to leave or more top riders don't come back. The product is getting weaker and crowds are getting smaller In the Elite League year on year. It can't be a coincidence Edited November 6, 2014 by screamer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
semion Posted November 6, 2014 Report Share Posted November 6, 2014 It would be a massive gamble for Promoters to go with a reduced league format with a whole host of GP riders included. Would the fans turn up and pay circa £20 to watch it ? If they didnt it could close down a good few tracks. Like Star lady says. The top boys fly in get their rides done, pick up the cheque and gone, off to the next gig on the circuit. Thats not my type of Speedway. IMHO fans want riders to be part of the team,riders who interact with the fans. You do tend to get that more in the Permier League. I really think in the UK it wont be long before its a semi-professional Sport. It will then find its own level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.