Workington 2015

[dontforgetthefueltapsbruv]

 

maybe that's the new coversion formula,,, that was changed at the recent meeting, but no-one remembered to put it down on the statement ???

there are always a few little nuggets missed out of the statement but IF this is true and the conversion rate has been changed it trumps the lot IMO.

[Arson fire]

Aparanty it was missed of the AGM's report - the rate has changed from 1.6 to 1.4 to reflect 2014 averages

in that case vastly experienced mads k would be 8.33 yet Rohan Tungate is higher on 8.36..... Believe it when i see it, its doing PL riders out of income and a bit shabby if its true.

[dontforgetthefueltapsbruv]

Would also mean if Steve Worrall wanted an EL 1-5 place he would be nearly 5.50.

Not exactly in line with the fastrack ethos of helping British youngsters.

[ruffdiamond]

there are always a few little nuggets missed out of the statement but IF this is true and the conversion rate has been changed it trumps the lot IMO.

 

well,,, after a couple of day's on the lash, somebody alway's forget's sommink, lol :-)

[SCB]

Aparanty it was missed of the AGM's report - the rate has changed from 1.6 to 1.4 to reflect 2014 averages

It never was 1.6. It was 0.6 Thats Why I'm not getting the 1.4. It used to be 0.5 then it become 0.6 why would they now invert it and make it 1.4 when it would make more sense to make it 0.7? I think someone has ballsed up.

[TAST]

It never was 1.6. It was 0.6 Thats Why I'm not getting the 1.4. It used to be 0.5 then it become 0.6 why would they now invert it and make it 1.4 when it would make more sense to make it 0.7? I think someone has ballsed up.

 

 

It was 1.6 - It is more to do with mathematical notion and how the calculation is laid out. (based on an Elite league average being increased by 60% for use in the Premier league 2014)

 

Last year the conversion rate was elite league average plus 0.6 [iNFACT 60% E.G 60/100].

 

Lets use an elite League average of 10 ( yes I know 12 is the absolute maximum in any league)

 

Old Notation

10 + (10*(60/100)) GOES TO 10 + 6 WHICH WOULD EQUAL 16

or put another way

10 + (10 * by 0.6) GOES to 10 + 6 Which would equal 16

 

new Notation

 

10 * 1.6 which also equals 16

 

Its just a more modern approach (or different) way to express the same thing

 

 

Tel ( and before you ask - I'm old school maths)

[dontforgetthefueltapsbruv]

It wasnt plus 0.6 it was Pl x 0.60 which expressed the other way would be 1.6666 recurring.

Was probably expressed as 0.6 as it was simpler than the 1.6667 just as the new 1.40 is simpler than the reverse of 0.71248!

[SCB]

 

 

It was 1.6 - It is more to do with mathematical notion and how the calculation is laid out. (based on an Elite league average being increased by 60% for use in the Premier league 2014)

 

Last year the conversion rate was elite league average plus 0.6 [iNFACT 60% E.G 60/100].

 

Lets use an elite League average of 10 ( yes I know 12 is the absolute maximum in any league)

 

Old Notation

10 + (10*(60/100)) GOES TO 10 + 6 WHICH WOULD EQUAL 16

or put another way

10 + (10 * by 0.6) GOES to 10 + 6 Which would equal 16

 

new Notation

 

10 * 1.6 which also equals 16

 

Its just a more modern approach (or different) way to express the same thing

 

 

Tel ( and before you ask - I'm old school maths)

You're wrong. The figure was 0.60

 

18.6.4 If a Rider has only an EL Established MA from the previous season, then a conversion is

necessary; the EL MA is divided by 0.6, subject to the maximum converted MA being 12.00

 

 

So a 6 point EL rider is 6 / 0.60 = 10.00

So a 10 point PL rider is 10 * 0.60 = 6.00

Using 1.6 you get 10 / 1.6 = 6.25

Or 6 *1.6 = 9.6

Or lets take 1.4. So you think you can do it old school 0.40 then? So Hansens 5.5 / 0.4 = 13.75!!

It was just co-incidence that divide by 0.6 and multiple the opposite by 1.6 was similar.

Edited November 22, 2014 by SCB

[TAST]

 

 

You're wrong. The figure was 0.60

 

Quote

18.6.4 If a Rider has only an EL Established MA from the previous season, then a conversion is

necessary; the EL MA is divided by 0.6, subject to the maximum converted MA being 12.00

 

 

 

SCB

 

Think we are talking about 2 slightly different things.

 

I did not know last years documented rule nor did I discuss division as part of the calculation ( I did not have access to the rule or the stated calculation method).

 

I agree that division by 0.6 will only work only for last years rules (although I suspect they may have ignored the recurring element of the result).

 

I suspect the "concept" of merely dividing by an adjust will be dropped because as you pointed out it only worked for 0.6.

 

 

I was trying to point out that you either add an adjustment to the EL average or multiply by 1 plus the adjustment.

 

So going back to the Keith Hansen example

 

you either calculate by

 

Old school method which is 5.5 plus (5.5 multiplied by 0.40) - YOU can't divide by 1.40 and I never suggested that!!!

 

 

5.5 + (5.5 * 0.4) which goes to (5.5 +2.20) which equals 7.70

 

or new school

which is (5.5 * 1.40 ) which also equals 7.70

 

 

Hope we agree that the 2014 version of the rule was badly worded by the BSPA and they can't use it as the basis for the adjustment calculation in 2015.

 

Tel

[dontforgetthefueltapsbruv]

The division by 0.6 is the inversion of multiplying by 1.66 recurring (2014 rule)

 

Themultiplicatuion by 1.4 is the inversion of the division by 0.71248 (2015 rule apparently)

 

You could still quote the conversion either by way of division or multiplication but it just a case of using the simpler version.

[bigcatdiary]

Regulations say thus

 

If a Rider has only an EL Established MA from the previous season, then a conversion is necessary; the EL MA is divided by 0.6, subject to the maximum converted MA being 12.00

 

Looks like 0.6, sorry tel

[Arson fire]

This just doesnt add up

[dontforgetthefueltapsbruv]

Regulations say thus

 

If a Rider has only an EL Established MA from the previous season, then a conversion is necessary; the EL MA is divided by 0.6, subject to the maximum converted MA being 12.00

 

Looks like 0.6, sorry tel

wouldnt that be from 2014 regs though.

2015 not yet published??

[TAST]

wouldnt that be from 2014 regs though.

2015 not yet published??

 

 

That's what I think 5.5 divided 0.6 comes out as 9.1666 recurring NOT 7.70

 

 

Tel

[jenga]

7.70 7.70.7.70.7.70.7.70

......................... 1.4.1.4.1.4.1.4.1.4.1.4.1.4. or does it need to be made clearer. time to move on i feel...

[bigcatdiary]

wouldnt that be from 2014 regs though.

2015 not yet published??

Of course, 2015 regs won't be out until January next year.

[madsteve]

7.70 7.70.7.70.7.70.7.70

......................... 1.4.1.4.1.4.1.4.1.4.1.4.1.4. or does it need to be made clearer. time to move on i feel...

Agreed!!

[Alan Cooper]

So if e =mc2, double it, and take away the first number you thought of does it make it 7.70 žzzzzzzzzzzz what a borefest

[scaramanga]

coppied from a post made on workington forum from 1 of the management team

hope it shuts a few of the know it alls up who actually dont know as much as they think

Right, there seems to be confusion everywhere on the change in conversion rate so I will explain the logic. (could someone share this with the BSF).

At the Pre-AGM the "weakening" of the Elite League in 2014 with use of fast track and the change in race format meant that the old conversion rate (1.6 x EL average = PL assessed average) was outdated and needed looked at.

We looked at all the data available from the EL stats and tried to correlate between averages achieved by the PL riders in the EL and their performances in the PL, the issue was that riders in a second string position in the EL got somewhat "easier" rides. After reviewing the figures it was noted that the overall standard of the EL was closer than previous and to keep the 1.6 conversion would exclude some riders from riding in the PL. The data indicated the conversion should actually be between 1.3 and 1.4

At the AGM the proposal was therefore made to reduce the conversion from 1.6 to 1.4 of any rider who wanted to "drop" into the Premier League. This of course caused an issue from the top end of the EL as well who in theory had "harder" rides due to the race format and we needed to make sure that this was not an issue. IT was therefore proposed and accepted that only riders with a current EL average of 6 or less could drop into the PL.

I don't like using the word drop as it indicates a different level and standard between the 2 leagues and for several reasons I believe the 2 leagues to be closer in standard than ever now, in fact, in my opinion we no longer have two tears of professional speedway but 2 different leagues.

All these riders who now want to ride in the PL have had the opportunity in the past and have not seen it as the "right thing to do", their chance may have gone or they may have to wait to get a less than 6 average!.

The whole thing is about ensuring going forward the PL remains a strong product as well as ensuring that PL teams bring talent through.

The conversion rates from PL to EL did not change as this was not discussed by the EL promoters so anyone moving from PL to EL will still be converted at the old rate.

Hope this clarifies.

[SCB]

coppied from a post made on workington forum from 1 of the management team

hope it shuts a few of the know it alls up who actually dont know as much as they think

Right, there seems to be confusion everywhere on the change in conversion rate so I will explain the logic. (could someone share this with the BSF).

 

At the Pre-AGM the "weakening" of the Elite League in 2014 with use of fast track and the change in race format meant that the old conversion rate (1.6 x EL average = PL assessed average) was outdated and needed looked at.

 

We looked at all the data available from the EL stats and tried to correlate between averages achieved by the PL riders in the EL and their performances in the PL, the issue was that riders in a second string position in the EL got somewhat "easier" rides. After reviewing the figures it was noted that the overall standard of the EL was closer than previous and to keep the 1.6 conversion would exclude some riders from riding in the PL. The data indicated the conversion should actually be between 1.3 and 1.4

 

At the AGM the proposal was therefore made to reduce the conversion from 1.6 to 1.4 of any rider who wanted to "drop" into the Premier League. This of course caused an issue from the top end of the EL as well who in theory had "harder" rides due to the race format and we needed to make sure that this was not an issue. IT was therefore proposed and accepted that only riders with a current EL average of 6 or less could drop into the PL.

 

I don't like using the word drop as it indicates a different level and standard between the 2 leagues and for several reasons I believe the 2 leagues to be closer in standard than ever now, in fact, in my opinion we no longer have two tears of professional speedway but 2 different leagues.

 

All these riders who now want to ride in the PL have had the opportunity in the past and have not seen it as the "right thing to do", their chance may have gone or they may have to wait to get a less than 6 average!.

 

The whole thing is about ensuring going forward the PL remains a strong product as well as ensuring that PL teams bring talent through.

 

The conversion rates from PL to EL did not change as this was not discussed by the EL promoters so anyone moving from PL to EL will still be converted at the old rate.

 

Hope this clarifies.

Well they're wrong on line three. The conversion rate has never been 1.6 so if this is the expert proof that says the rate is now 1.4 excuse me if I file it under, "doesn't know what they're talking about"

 

Also the bollocks about, "I don't like using the word drop as it indicates a different level and standard between the 2 leagues" - erm, if there was no drop there would be no need for a conversion rate. FFS, sometimes the human race makes me want to top myself as I don't want to live in a World with people like this.

Edited November 22, 2014 by SCB