Redcar 2015.

[cheekycobra]

I believe Kozza was offered a deal by Redcar but Glasgows was better. I dont think he had signed for Redcar

And that's fair enough. Good luck to Kozza. No grudges from me there and I haven't read anywhere a grudge from any Redcar fans.

[Justgotmecpc]

21 grand is not a lot of money these days. i think barney kennet had 10 grand round his neck years ago. 70s or some thing like that. so its inline with inflation.

21 grand is a lot to pay out up front before a wheel has been turned when the club rent the stadium which I presume may also help out the football side as well but 21 grand on top of wages plus as well as loan fees for barker etc tha going to need a few more fans in to pay the over heads,, even the pl champs lost 60 grand last year so it was said ??

[bigeddiechek]

Can't believe that Kus would really prefer riding for Redcar over Berwick. He was a depressed young man at Redcar, with very little support, but made himself a fans favourite and a match winner on a track much more suited to his style. Took him a little while to get started, but when he did, he scored big and big points means bigger wages. Perhaps Kus feared he would not get a ride and bowed to the pressure and the alternative.

 

Good post, Tsumani.

[spin king]

Can't believe that Kus would really prefer riding for Redcar over Berwick. He was a depressed young man at Redcar, with very little support, but made himself a fans favourite and a match winner on a track much more suited to his style. Took him a little while to get started, but when he did, he scored big and big points means bigger wages. Perhaps Kus feared he would not get a ride and bowed to the pressure and the alternative.

Sorry, but if this was any other club other than Redcar you would not be making that statement.

 

Everyone knows that the depression that Kus as suffering from had absolutely nothing to do with Redcar.

 

Okay I don't know what support or help he got at Redcar, but I guess neither do you if your honest.

 

End of the day if Kus wanted to ride for Berwick, he could have stood his ground and and stayed with them.

 

With the fact that he has signed for Redcar very quickly after the 21K price tag put on him by Redcar, suggests to me that things were not as bad been between Kus and Redcar.

[Tsunami]

Matej is and always has been a fans favourite at Redcar, and it showed everytime Berwick visited Redcar this past season with the reaction the supporters gave him and the fact he spent more time in the Bears end of the pits than he did Berwick's. Add to that his big points haul at the STeMP each time showed his style is a big match to Redcar's track. His depression (I'd like to think that is over and done with and didn't warrant been brought up again) was nothing to do with Redcar and we all know what the reason for that was.

For an experienced poster that was pretty low for your standards.

It would seem some fans forget the division that Kus's scoring used to cause between Redcar fans. He got a lot of stick from many, despite he was a favourite with others. I was there for his last meeting and after the meeting he kept away from everyone and looked lonely, and quietly gave away his gloves, goggles and his racing bib to youngsters and I said at the time, "he's out of here". I have always liked Kus and defended him, and praised him when he went to Berwick, so I do have a soft spot for him. Incidently , there is nothing low about stating the truth even though some don't want to remember. Fans were frustrated at him and at times wrote about it. It was time for Matej to get away to another track. I wrote on the Berwick thread at the beginning of last season, that he would do well and I was pleased to see his scores so high, and how happy he seemed to be there. Being near him at Redcars training schools, I could see that he could crack riding at STMP, as he was a different rider practicing on a Saturday, just the same as he was at our practice and repeated second half rides, as he was determined to return to his true form.

 

Sorry, but if this was any other club other than Redcar you would not be making that statement.

 

Everyone knows that the depression that Kus as suffering from had absolutely nothing to do with Redcar.

 

Okay I don't know what support or help he got at Redcar, but I guess neither do you if your honest.

 

End of the day if Kus wanted to ride for Berwick, he could have stood his ground and and stayed with them.

 

With the fact that he has signed for Redcar very quickly after the 21K price tag put on him by Redcar, suggests to me that things were not as bad been between Kus and Redcar.

More rubbish about me from you Martin. Redcar is my next local track, so I tend to know more about them than say Plymouth. I also have a lot of friends at Redcar, and usually know what the crack is. Why would I not have an opinion about Redcar and their riders, who Newcastle fans see more than other teams.

Incidently, I have never said that his depression at that time was anything to do with Redcar, so don't try to pin that one on me. Most fans know the real reason and you also know that reason.

[northyorksbear]

Can't believe that Kus would really prefer riding for Redcar over Berwick. He was a depressed young man at Redcar, with very little support, but made himself a fans favourite and a match winner on a track much more suited to his style. Took him a little while to get started, but when he did, he scored big and big points means bigger wages. Perhaps Kus feared he would not get a ride and bowed to the pressure and the alternative.

 

From someone who usually posts sensible comments this is ludicrous - I fear you have been on the wacky baccy!!

 

He was a depressed man at redcar and you know why that was, go ask him how much support he received, because you obvious are guessing and are way off the mark.

 

Yes he reinvented himself at Berwick, no debate and I am delighted for him. Hopefully he will show everyone how much he likes redcar, fans and the promotion this season and end all these comments which are just trivial little mind games!!

It would seem some fans forget the division that Kus's scoring used to cause between Redcar fans. He got a lot of stick from many, despite he was a favourite with others. I was there for his last meeting and after the meeting he kept away from everyone and looked lonely, and quietly gave away his gloves, goggles and his racing bib to youngsters and I said at the time, "he's out of here". I have always liked Kus and defended him, and praised him when he went to Berwick, so I do have a soft spot for him. Incidently , there is nothing low about stating the truth even though some don't want to remember. Fans were frustrated at him and at times wrote about it. It was time for Matej to get away to another track. I wrote on the Berwick thread at the beginning of last season, that he would do well and I was pleased to see his scores so high, and how happy he seemed to be there. Being near him at Redcars training schools, I could see that he could crack riding at STMP, as he was a different rider practicing on a Saturday, just the same as he was at our practice and repeated second half rides, as he was determined to return to his true form.

 

 

 

 

It must have been a different "last match" to me, because my memory is of him walking around the outside of the track shaking hands with the fans and thanking them for the support he had!!

penchev, on 06 Dec 2014 - 8:39 PM, said:

you are missing my point basically was stating that people within the sport seem to be constantly holding guns to peoples heads.

 

Kozza Smith was allegedly signed for Redcar for next season, only for Glasgow to trump them with more money, so i suppose that is also fair then eh?

 

Kozza signed for redcar in 2014 but could not ride because of visa issues

 

He has never been signed for next season, only offered a deal, which Glasgow outdid, hence he went to Glasgow - so you suppose right that is very fair, if I outbid you on e-bay I win the item you have to go looking for something else, that's life

[cheekycobra]

It would seem some fans forget the division that Kus's scoring used to cause between Redcar fans. He got a lot of stick from many, despite he was a favourite with others. I was there for his last meeting and after the meeting he kept away from everyone and looked lonely, and quietly gave away his gloves, goggles and his racing bib to youngsters and I said at the time, "he's out of here". I have always liked Kus and defended him, and praised him when he went to Berwick, so I do have a soft spot for him. Incidently , there is nothing low about stating the truth even though some don't want to remember. Fans were frustrated at him and at times wrote about it. It was time for Matej to get away to another track. I wrote on the Berwick thread at the beginning of last season, that he would do well and I was pleased to see his scores so high, and how happy he seemed to be there. Being near him at Redcars training schools, I could see that he could crack riding at STMP, as he was a different rider practicing on a Saturday, just the same as he was at our practice and repeated second half rides, as he was determined to return to his true form.

 

No your still been naughty here. You are still pinning it to be a Redcar thing. Yes I agree some fans were frustrated with Matej, but you fail to point out that he had problems though the whole season and looked the same way , that you are describing in the last meeting all year. The Redcar management and especially most of the fans got behind him 100% and there were times I read that he wanted to pack the sport in, but it was rumoured he was talked around by the club and the fans supported him each race and always got the biggest cheer when he got a win. We all understood the problem. Yes at the last meeting he did look dejected, but the club did all they could to help him. That is where Havvy has stated lately it was best for him to try another club to build up his confidence again and despite the debate on here, I am grateful for Berwick for giving him the chance and working wonders to get him back to the rider we witnessed him to be in his first season as a Bear. I understand Berwick's management and fans to be peeved for what they have done for Matej, for him to be returning too the Bears, but he is a Bear this season and I'm sure we will welcome him back and give him just as much support that Berwick would have done.

I still think it was a low blow to bring up the subject in the first place and I wont personally comment on it further as this could go around in circles as most things on here do and that isn't any good for anyone.

[Halifaxtiger]

Matej is and always has been a fans favourite at Redcar

 

I don't know the ins and outs of this situation and don't propose to comment on them, but in my experience Tsunami's view of the way Kus was treated by the Redcar fans is much closer to the truth.

[YAMYAMBANDIT]

Sorry, but if this was any other club other than Redcar you would not be making that statement.

 

Everyone knows that the depression that Kus as suffering from had absolutely nothing to do with Redcar.

 

Okay I don't know what support or help he got at Redcar, but I guess neither do you if your honest.

 

End of the day if Kus wanted to ride for Berwick, he could have stood his ground and and stayed with them.

 

With the fact that he has signed for Redcar very quickly after the 21K price tag put on him by Redcar, suggests to me that things were not as bad been between Kus and Redcar.

I can remember taliking to Brian in The B&G at Berwick, even when Matej was at his lowest in 2013, Brian still believed he could achieve the No 1 position at Redcar.

 

It would seem some fans forget the division that Kus's scoring used to cause between Redcar fans. He got a lot of stick from many, despite he was a favourite with others. I was there for his last meeting and after the meeting he kept away from everyone and looked lonely, and quietly gave away his gloves, goggles and his racing bib to youngsters and I said at the time, "he's out of here". I have always liked Kus and defended him, and praised him when he went to Berwick, so I do have a soft spot for him. Incidently , there is nothing low about stating the truth even though some don't want to remember. Fans were frustrated at him and at times wrote about it. It was time for Matej to get away to another track. I wrote on the Berwick thread at the beginning of last season, that he would do well and I was pleased to see his scores so high, and how happy he seemed to be there. Being near him at Redcars training schools, I could see that he could crack riding at STMP, as he was a different rider practicing on a Saturday, just the same as he was at our practice and repeated second half rides, as he was determined to return to his true form.

 

No your still been naughty here. You are still pinning it to be a Redcar thing. Yes I agree some fans were frustrated with Matej, but you fail to point out that he had problems though the whole season and looked the same way , that you are describing in the last meeting all year. The Redcar management and especially most of the fans got behind him 100% and there were times I read that he wanted to pack the sport in, but it was rumoured he was talked around by the club and the fans supported him each race and always got the biggest cheer when he got a win. We all understood the problem. Yes at the last meeting he did look dejected, but the club did all they could to help him. That is where Havvy has stated lately it was best for him to try another club to build up his confidence again and despite the debate on here, I am grateful for Berwick for giving him the chance and working wonders to get him back to the rider we witnessed him to be in his first season as a Bear. I understand Berwick's management and fans to be peeved for what they have done for Matej, for him to be returning too the Bears, but he is a Bear this season and I'm sure we will welcome him back and give him just as much support that Berwick would have done.

I still think it was a low blow to bring up the subject in the first place and I wont personally comment on it further as this could go around in circles as most things on here do and that isn't any good for anyone.

 

I was one of his sponsors at Berwick, and I AM NOT PEEVED with Matej, self employed people should always do what is best for themselves.

[KEITH M]

So reneging on a loan deal is OK then.

It happens in football Dave.... What about when a club loans someone out for say 3 months and then decides after about 5 weeks they need them back

[Tsunami]

 

I don't know the ins and outs of this situation and don't propose to comment on them, but in my experience Tsunami's view of the way Kus was treated by the Redcar fans is much closer to the truth.

 

Thanks for that Chris.

 

To put this to bed. I never said, or implied, that the club did not help Matej through this period. It was some fans that did not support him and as has been said, Havvy thought it better to find another club in order to get things sorted out. He lived with Havvy I believe, and he would have been in a perfect position to know Matej and help him. I was delighted he has, both for him and Berwick, who gave him the chance with excellent returns. Remember also, despite Wilko being a well liked rider at Newport, Worky, Berwick and Newcastle, some Redcar fans still found regular faults with him, so maybe they are the same fans.

 

I wish Matej all the best for his return to Redcar in 2015. He's a nice personable lad who deserves to succeed and be appreciated. I look forward to a good reception to Redcar next time I go.

It happens in football Dave.... What about when a club loans someone out for say 3 months and then decides after about 5 weeks they need them back

Contractually they can't force the player to return. Newcastle own a goalie and a centre back at Notts Forest, from buying them in September and loaning them back for this season. Despite our recent problems at centre back, we still couldn't force the centreback to join us. Unless it is agree "in the interests of Newcastle and Notts Forest".

Edited December 7, 2014 by Tsunami

[northyorksbear]

 

Thanks for that Chris.

 

To put this to bed. I never said, or implied, that the club did not help Matej through this period. It was some fans that did not support him and as has been said, Havvy thought it better to find another club in order to get things sorted out. He lived with Havvy I believe, and he would have been in a perfect position to know Matej and help him. I was delighted he has, both for him and Berwick, who gave him the chance with excellent returns. Remember also, despite Wilko being a well liked rider at Newport, Worky, Berwick and Newcastle, some Redcar fans still found regular faults with him, so maybe they are the same fans.

 

I wish Matej all the best for his return to Redcar in 2015. He's a nice personable lad who deserves to succeed and be appreciated. I look forward to a good reception to Redcar next time I go.

 

Ok - apologies if I misunderstood your post and over reacted - I am just a little cheesed off with posters stating Matty's issues were due to him being at Redcar - I know Havvy does and says some odd things at times, but with regard to supporting Matty he went a lot further than many promoters would

 

And ... Wilko was well liked at Redcar also, but I agree we do have some fans who are quick to be criticial - probably the same at most tracks, (maybe ours are more vocal!!)

[smod]

Berwick's complaint is surely that Brian Havelock agreed with both the Berwick promoters at different times during the AGM they could have Matej Kus on loan again, but turned around once the deal with the rider was completed and went back on his word?

 

The Berwick newsletter says just that. They agree it is Redcar's prerogative to retain an asset, but are clearly disappointed that they were given full permission to approach the rider to discuss the second year's loan, only to be told once their deal was done that the loan was a no-no, their consortium suddenly wanted £21K?

 

From where I am, looking at the affair from a neutral viewpoint, it stinks.

[spin king]

 

Thanks for that Chris.

 

To put this to bed. I never said, or implied, that the club did not help Matej through this period. It was some fans that did not support him and as has been said, Havvy thought it better to find another club in order to get things sorted out. He lived with Havvy I believe, and he would have been in a perfect position to know Matej and help him. I was delighted he has, both for him and Berwick, who gave him the chance with excellent returns. Remember also, despite Wilko being a well liked rider at Newport, Worky, Berwick and Newcastle, some Redcar fans still found regular faults with him, so maybe they are the same fans.

 

I wish Matej all the best for his return to Redcar in 2015. He's a nice personable lad who deserves to succeed and be appreciated. I look forward to a good reception to Redcar next time I go.

Contractually they can't force the player to return. Newcastle own a goalie and a centre back at Notts Forest, from buying them in September and loaning them back for this season. Despite our recent problems at centre back, we still couldn't force the centreback to join us. Unless it is agree "in the interests of Newcastle and Notts Forest".

Like Northyorksbear, I to read that it was the Promotion that you were pointing the finger, so apologies on that score.

 

And to be fair I do remember some sections of the Redcar fans on here who did question the validity of Redcar sticking with Matej Kus,on this forum.

[Arson fire]

 

Thanks for that Chris.

 

To put this to bed. I never said, or implied, that the club did not help Matej through this period. It was some fans that did not support him and as has been said, Havvy thought it better to find another club in order to get things sorted out. He lived with Havvy I believe, and he would have been in a perfect position to know Matej and help him. I was delighted he has, both for him and Berwick, who gave him the chance with excellent returns. Remember also, despite Wilko being a well liked rider at Newport, Worky, Berwick and Newcastle, some Redcar fans still found regular faults with him, so maybe they are the same fans.

 

I wish Matej all the best for his return to Redcar in 2015. He's a nice personable lad who deserves to succeed and be appreciated. I look forward to a good reception to Redcar next time I go.

 

Contractually they can't force the player to return. Newcastle own a goalie and a centre back at Notts Forest, from buying them in September and loaning them back for this season. Despite our recent problems at centre back, we still couldn't force the centreback to join us. Unless it is agree "in the interests of Newcastle and Notts Forest".

they can force them back Dave, unless it is stipulated in the loan agreement that its season long with no option for call backs.... A club can call any other player back under any other loan agreement, regardless of which club it benefits... Works the other way aswell, which we will prob see in jan with HBA being booted back by Hull

[Tsunami]

they can force them back Dave, unless it is stipulated in the loan agreement that its season long with no option for call backs.... A club can call any other player back under any other loan agreement, regardless of which club it benefits... Works the other way aswell, which we will prob see in jan with HBA being booted back by Hull

 

That was the type of contract clause I was referring to. In speedway, you agree to a period( all season or 28days), and pay for that period. If the rider moves on to another team, the loan team gets the new loan payment as if they owned then. There's no grabbing back a loan rider unless by agreemnent.

[Arson fire]

 

That was the type of contract clause I was referring to. In speedway, you agree to a period( all season or 28days), and pay for that period. If the rider moves on to another team, the loan team gets the new loan payment as if they owned then. There's no grabbing back a loan rider unless by agreemnent.

so if it was for 2 years then Havvy should have had the 2 year payment initially?? And if it was for 2 years then why would dialouge be needed at AGM and then via email if it was set in stone and binding??... Seems the 2 year agreement was more likely verbally agreed rather than contractually, if so then old havvy is well within his rights imo.

 

A bit shallow to renege but his first concern had to be redcar not berwick.... Esp after the lawson carry on.

[cheekycobra]

 

Remember also, despite Wilko being a well liked rider at Newport, Worky, Berwick and Newcastle, some Redcar fans still found regular faults with him, so maybe they are the same fans.

 

 

You got it in a nut shell, and what I pointed out from the start, hence..." Yes I agree, some fans were frustrated". HalifaxTigers point of " The Redcar fans" is wrong, it was "some Redcar fans".

 

Every club has the same few fans. Redcar have RedcarRacer and the like, Newcastle have Tsunami.

[Yearbyred]

You got it in a nut shell, and what I pointed out from the start, hence..." Yes I agree, some fans were frustrated". HalifaxTigers point of " The Redcar fans" is wrong, it was "some Redcar fans".

 

Every club has the same few fans. Redcar have RedcarRacer and the like, Newcastle have Tsunami.

 

Bit unfair on RR - he is nowhere near as supercilious as Tsunami.

[Tsunami]

so if it was for 2 years then Havvy should have had the 2 year payment initially?? And if it was for 2 years then why would dialouge be needed at AGM and then via email if it was set in stone and binding??... Seems the 2 year agreement was more likely verbally agreed rather than contractually, if so then old havvy is well within his rights imo.

 

A bit shallow to renege but his first concern had to be redcar not berwick.... Esp after the lawson carry on.

Probably agreed a 2 year deal, paid for the first year, then at the AGM talked about the agreement to confirm the second year deal was still on. Verbally or not, the next step would have been to do the loan deal papers for Havvy to sign, but he changed his mind. It was Havvy that changed his mind, not Berwick.