Plymouth 2015

[Roger MARTIN]

I can post a link to the previous criteria which has stood since at least 2009 - which as I've said all along Jack Holder and others don't qualify under that criteria.

 

So, I've answered your question, how about you answering mine - how does Jack Holder qualify for a work permit now, when he failed previously?

 

Where's the link then, you say he failed before, when did he apply before for a work permit, or are you saying he didn't qualify before, i'm just asking Najjer, just wondering why Somerset were interested in him, if like you say he didn't qualify for a work visa to come to this. Country

Edited February 21, 2015 by Devildodger

[Skidder1]

People can quote all the 'rules' they like, but at the end of the day it will be 'at the BSPA MC's discretion'!!!

[ancient mariner]

People can quote all the 'rules' they like, but at the end of the day it will be 'at the BSPA MC's discretion'!!!

 

Absolutely. The point I'm trying to make is that the mention of a facility was greeted with derision from many contributors. I was merely speculating that the idea of a facility arose from the rules I've quoted.

 

The fact is that the rules are a minefield. By attempting to make them watertight the powers that be have made them full of holes and open to even more interpretation.

 

We have only just witnessed a load MORE rules about restarts and gardening etc when the rules were already there and only had to be applied. Why add more?

 

No doubt the Devils promotion will be in the fullness of time be appraised by the BSPA of any transgression(s) of the rules - after all, the BSPA are the experts.

 

EX - as in 'has been'

SPURTS - as in 'drips under pressure'

Edited February 21, 2015 by ancient mariner

[Pirate Nick]

Unless they've changed the rules Jack doesnt qualify. If they've changed the rules to add the phrase "within the last 2 years" then he does as I think he finished in the top 4 of a state championship in 2014. I understand Alex Davies qualifies because his average was achieved within the last 2 years.

Edited February 21, 2015 by Pirate Nick

[Najjer]

 

Where's the link then, you say he failed before, when did he apply before for a work permit, or are you saying he didn't qualify before, i'm just asking Najjer, just wondering why Somerset were interested in him, if like you say he didn't qualify for a work visa to come to this. Country

Because his state championship fell after somerset previously signed him - at which point he then failed to get in the top 4.

With respect to whether or not a facility may be acvailable for Fisher, the following quote from Plymouth Devils forum may be relevant:

 

16.5.2 For an absent Rider with (a) an assessed MA, or ( has been approved in a teams declared line-up at the start of the season, a 28-day Facility may be granted at MCs discretion.

16.5.2.2 If the absent Rider has an assessed MA and is a PL#1 (by MA) only RR facility is allowed.

 

I assume that this may be the facility to which the team manager refers?

 

Waits for a proper battering in short order ...

 

 

 

 

So, another rule which Plymouth don't understand and think they can use a guest when it says only rider replacement can be used?

[womble53]

With respect to whether or not a facility may be acvailable for Fisher, the following quote from Plymouth Devils forum may be relevant:

 

16.5.2 For an absent Rider with (a) an assessed MA, or ( has been approved in a team’s declared line-up at the start of the season, a 28-day Facility may be granted at MC’s discretion.

16.5.2.2 If the absent Rider has an assessed MA and is a PL#1 (by MA) only RR facility is allowed.

 

I assume that this may be the facility to which the team manager refers?

 

Waits for a proper battering in short order ...

 

 

 

 

 

If you read a little further, you will find this......

 

16.5.3 No facility is permitted to replace a Rider, who although included in a Re-declaration has not

made an appearance for that Team since being re-declared.

 

Whilst it includes the words "Re-declaration" & "Re-declare", this rule has been worded exactly as above for years, and was brought in specifically to stop teams declaring a rider before the season, and then using RR in his place before he has actually ridden for that team in that particular season.

 

I believe this was brought in after a team declared a rider, who may have been injured, and then proceeded to use RR for him for the whole season. I'm sure there are those on here, who will remember the specifics, and enlighten us.

 

In which case, as the rule stands, the Devils cannot use guests or RR for an absent Fisher........unless of course the BSPA have promised that clubs caught up in the visa situation are to be cut some slack in this area of the rules......Who knows?

[neb]

is it not possible for plymouth to find a rider to stand in for fisher for a couple of months until his visa issue is sorted,maybe someone who does not want to do a full season in the uk? nemo or karlsson are a couple of names that spring to mind.

[lewy]

We might wing it and bring in Hancock he said he would stand in for his mate:-)

[Tsunami]

 

 

If you read a little further, you will find this......

 

16.5.3 No facility is permitted to replace a Rider, who although included in a Re-declaration has not

made an appearance for that Team since being re-declared.

 

Whilst it includes the words "Re-declaration" & "Re-declare", this rule has been worded exactly as above for years, and was brought in specifically to stop teams declaring a rider before the season, and then using RR in his place before he has actually ridden for that team in that particular season.

 

I believe this was brought in after a team declared a rider, who may have been injured, and then proceeded to use RR for him for the whole season. I'm sure there are those on here, who will remember the specifics, and enlighten us.

 

In which case, as the rule stands, the Devils cannot use guests or RR for an absent Fisher........unless of course the BSPA have promised that clubs caught up in the visa situation are to be cut some slack in this area of the rules......Who knows?

Newcastle, under Ian Thomas.

 

Incidently, in 2013 Andrew Tully broke his back in the press and practice sessions and we were allowed R/R till he returned.

[SCB]

With respect to whether or not a facility may be acvailable for Fisher, the following quote from Plymouth Devils forum may be relevant:

 

16.5.2 For an absent Rider with (a) an assessed MA, or ( has been approved in a team’s declared line-up at the start of the season, a 28-day Facility may be granted at MC’s discretion.

16.5.2.2 If the absent Rider has an assessed MA and is a PL#1 (by MA) only RR facility is allowed.

 

I assume that this may be the facility to which the team manager refers?

 

Waits for a proper battering in short order ...

But, only if

16.5.1 A Team may utilise a "Facility" to cover the absence of a Rider(s) who:

A is on FIM World Speedway Championship duty.

B is engaged elsewhere at a BSPA shared or fee Meeting.

C is recalled by his own FMN in accordance with the FIM ISLB Regulations.

D has been injured whilst speedway racing, Within 48 hours of the injury occurring, if

no evidence is available, a Medical Certificate must be sent to the SCB; failure to

do so will result in the mandatory suspension of the Rider’s SCB Registration for

the next home fixture. NB. The BSPA MC cannot overrule the suspension.

E is sick or carrying a non-speedway injury for which a Medical Certificate must be

supplied to the SCB within 48 hours of the sickness / injury occurring in which case

the Rider may only return within 7 days (including his Team’s next home Meeting)

with the express permission of the MC. However failure to provide a Certificate will

nevertheless result in the mandatory suspension of the Rider’s SCB Registration

for the next home fixture. NB. The BSPA MC cannot overrule the suspension.

F has been suspended by the FIM, ACU, SCB or Rider’s FMN.

G is in dispute with his Club, provided that the circumstances have been accepted by

the MC, who will determine the Facility and period of the Rider’s inactivity.

H is on FIM Longtrack Championship duty (for the day of the Meeting only; no facility

is permitted for practice day).

I being a PL Rider whose own FMN does not have a current Agreement with the

BSPA and is competing in another National League or Open Meeting. This will

result in the Rider’s SCB Registration being suspended for 1 (one) season and the

Team will be automatically granted a facility for a maximum period of 28 days,

after which they must re-declare.

J is awaiting medical clearance from the Riders FMN.

K is absent for any other reason (applicable to the NL only)

I'm not denying that the BSPA MC can allow a facility. You're right, they can but not for any old reason, it still has to be for one of the 11 reasons listed. Not having a work visa is not a valid reason for having a facility. Tsunami mentions Andrew Tully being a precedent, that was allowed under 16.5.1 D as above.

So, for 16.5.2, the rule you have quoted to be allowed, Ryan Fisher needs to have been in a declared 1-7. As I see it, he's not. Plymouth will be announcing a 1-7 with him in it knowing he's not available. That rule suggests that it's allowed if a 1-7 is declared with the BSPA and THEN something goes wrong.

Edited February 21, 2015 by SCB

[bigcatdiary]

Newcastle, under Ian Thomas.

 

Incidently, in 2013 Andrew Tully broke his back in the press and practice sessions and we were allowed R/R till he returned.

It depends who is asking.

 

It beggars belief that we have a rule saying it's not allowed and another saying under some circumstances it can be.

But, only if

16.5.1 A Team may utilise a "Facility" to cover the absence of a Rider(s) who:

A is on FIM World Speedway Championship duty.

B is engaged elsewhere at a BSPA shared or fee Meeting.

C is recalled by his own FMN in accordance with the FIM ISLB Regulations.

D has been injured whilst speedway racing, Within 48 hours of the injury occurring, if

no evidence is available, a Medical Certificate must be sent to the SCB; failure to

do so will result in the mandatory suspension of the Rider’s SCB Registration for

the next home fixture. NB. The BSPA MC cannot overrule the suspension.

E is sick or carrying a non-speedway injury for which a Medical Certificate must be

supplied to the SCB within 48 hours of the sickness / injury occurring in which case

the Rider may only return within 7 days (including his Team’s next home Meeting)

with the express permission of the MC. However failure to provide a Certificate will

nevertheless result in the mandatory suspension of the Rider’s SCB Registration

for the next home fixture. NB. The BSPA MC cannot overrule the suspension.

F has been suspended by the FIM, ACU, SCB or Rider’s FMN.

G is in dispute with his Club, provided that the circumstances have been accepted by

the MC, who will determine the Facility and period of the Rider’s inactivity.

H is on FIM Longtrack Championship duty (for the day of the Meeting only; no facility

is permitted for practice day).

I being a PL Rider whose own FMN does not have a current Agreement with the

BSPA and is competing in another National League or Open Meeting. This will

result in the Rider’s SCB Registration being suspended for 1 (one) season and the

Team will be automatically granted a facility for a maximum period of 28 days,

after which they must re-declare.

J is awaiting medical clearance from the Riders FMN.

K is absent for any other reason (applicable to the NL only)

 

I'm not denying that the BSPA MC can allow a facility. You're right, they can but not for any old reason, it still has to be for one of the 11 reasons listed. Not having a work visa is not a valid reason for having a facility. Tsunami mentions Andrew Tully being a precedent, that was allowed under 16.5.1 D as above.

 

So, for 16.5.2, the rule you have quoted to be allowed, Ryan Fisher needs to have been in a declared 1-7. As I see it, he's not. Plymouth will be announcing a 1-7 with him in it knowing he's not available. That rule suggests that it's allowed if a 1-7 is declared with the BSPA and THEN something goes wrong.

Their are some people saying this visa row could string along until May before its sorted so I dare say this water will be tested again, it will be interesting to see what's decided and who for this time.

[barncooseboy]

Basically the problem has been caused by the BSPA rule making bit flaunting government regulations for years why should individual clubs suffer because of the body corporates wrong doing.

[Tsunami]

Basically the problem has been caused by the BSPA rule making bit flaunting government regulations for years why should individual clubs suffer because of the body corporates wrong doing.

And your suggestion to get out of it is what bcb.

It depends who is asking.

 

It beggars belief that we have a rule saying it's not allowed and another saying under some circumstances it can be.

 

Their are some people saying this visa row could string along until May before its sorted so I dare say this water will be tested again, it will be interesting to see what's decided and who for this time.

Rubbish. See SCB's reply.

[ancient mariner]

Thank you all for clarifying my question, even if some were more tactful than others.

 

TBH it's going to be a blessed relief to get the season under way.

Edited February 22, 2015 by ancient mariner

[bigcatdiary]

And your suggestion to get out of it is what bcb.

Rubbish. See SCB's reply.

We will see, it's early days

[barncooseboy]

a complete clear out of all the cirporate body, for years they have thought they are superior to everybody else, its time they felt the weight of real power the uk government

[Tsunami]

a complete clear out of all the cirporate body, for years they have thought they are superior to everybody else, its time they felt the weight of real power the uk government

Oh dear.

[smod]

a complete clear out of all the cirporate body, for years they have thought they are superior to everybody else, its time they felt the weight of real power the uk government

 

Ah. A clear thinker. And your suggestion for replacements? And the funding thereof?

[barncooseboy]

This week 2 politicians who were found to ber thinking about flouting the rules have stood down, you seem to be saying that the speedway executive, the management committee are exempt from any responsibility for their own actions. If the management committe are not responsible for policing their own rules and conditions you are advocating complete anarchy.

 

New MC Neil Machin, Pat Bliss (IF she would take it on), Colin Pratt, Phil Morris Tony Steele , Andy Butler and maybe Rosco. plus a current British rider Finance as before

[Tsunami]

This week 2 politicians who were found to ber thinking about flouting the rules have stood down, you seem to be saying that the speedway executive, the management committee are exempt from any responsibility for their own actions. If the management committe are not responsible for policing their own rules and conditions you are advocating complete anarchy.

 

New MC Neil Machin, Pat Bliss (IF she would take it on), Colin Pratt, Phil Morris Tony Steele , Andy Butler and maybe Rosco. plus a current British rider Finance as before

And none of them have got money tied up in the sport. So it's other folks money that they would rule on. And your talking about anarchy.